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Bible/come to Jesus

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
Alright, I'd like to ask some questions.

If God is omnipotent why did he require his son to be tortured in a complex ritual to atone for human sin instead of just forgiving the sin?

If God is omnipotent why does he need Jesus or the bible when he could just zap any necessary information into our heads at any time and make it perfectly clear?

Why isn't there any historical evidence for Jesus?

How did Noah get the different species to the different places on earth, and how did he keep the fresh water fish from dying when the salt water inundated inland waterways?

Why isn't there any historical evidence from the Egyptians of the captivity of the Jews or their exodus?

Why send Jesus in 30 AD instead of 4000 BC right after the fall from the garden instead of having all of human population until that time spend thousands of years in Hell?

Why won't God heal amputees?

Why hasn't any supernatural event ever been scientifically documented?

If God is omniscient than why is Caan able to hide from him, why does he change his mind and flood the world instead of doing it right the first time, why does he allow Satan to tempt people?

If God is omnipotent how is it that he can be beaten by iron chariots?
Ok here ill try to answer these
1:God is a holy god therefore sin cannot be in his presence and the penalty for sin is death, but Jesus being perfect could pay this debt and was willing to do so
2: God doesn't want to force himself on people but try choose him of their free will
3:there is
4:before Jesus came people could get to heaven by believing in the prophecy that the savior would come so the weren't all sent to hell
5:because scientist aren't willing to rely on anything that doesn't make sense to them refusing to think they can understand everything therefore wouldn't document such things
6:Cain is not hiding but exiled and Satan tempted people but God knew this would happen therefore made he plan of Jesus to atone for our sins and get back to the original design later
Ok Srry for the wait and I may have skipped a few things or got them in the wrong order but I'm doing this on my phone so forgive me
 

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
I thought we live on Earth
Tellus is the name of the planet we live on. Now stop avoiding my questions.

Edit: As it's 00:15 right now I am hitting bed. I hope to have some replies and answers by the time I can reply to this thread again. And PLEASE back your theories of God's excistense up with some solid evidence.
 

Ostadar

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Again
again entered into the world with sin
I so do love that you actually replied to this.

God is Jealous. He demands respect. If you turn his back on him or worship another he will cast you away from Heaven to suffer for eternity without him. All humans are to punished from birth for the mistakes of Adam and Eve, even though he gave them free will. Free will is not free will when you will be punished for exercising it. God is not the Only Good. Unless of you 'pray'(beg) for forgiveness/repent. He is the exact idea of a charismatic Tyrant.

I'm done talking about this though, I'll leave your thread be. Maybe when you are older and have gone through being a Missionary or something I'll talk about this again. As it stands you are too young.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Location
United States, Florida
Not trying to prove a side right or wrong here, just legitimately curious of your thoughts on this. If Christianity states that all humans sin, how can the Bible be a perfect and holy book? It wasn't written by God, so there's bound to be some error in it.
 

Dazureus

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Location
Texas
Alright, I'd like to ask some questions.

If God is omnipotent why did he require his son to be tortured in a complex ritual to atone for human sin instead of just forgiving the sin?
Because God isn't about fluffy feathers and self-esteem. His justice demanded that somebody pay the debt of sin, but nobody could because they all sinned. Jesus could, because He was both a human who could pay up and full of God's Spirit.

If God is omnipotent why does he need Jesus or the bible when he could just zap any necessary information into our heads at any time and make it perfectly clear?
Because He made us in His image, gave us agency. Brainwashing isn't His way of doing things (you can laugh at that one, I'll forgive you).

Why isn't there any historical evidence for Jesus?
Why do we trust Aristotle is a real guy?

How did Noah get the different species to the different places on earth, and how did he keep the fresh water fish from dying when the salt water inundated inland waterways?
This is an interesting one, actually. There's a good theory out there that the flood was not in fact global. I'll explain that in detail to you later on if you'd like.

Why isn't there any historical evidence from the Egyptians of the captivity of the Jews or their exodus?
Haven't looked into this much.

Why send Jesus in 30 AD instead of 4000 BC right after the fall from the garden instead of having all of human population until that time spend thousands of years in Hell?
Because it was the right time. Additionally, 4000 BC sounds way young, even for young-earth theories.

Why won't God heal amputees?
Because God doesn't just up and heal folks anymore. Plus your mortal body isn't quite that important.

Why hasn't any supernatural event ever been scientifically documented?
Supernatural things are by definition outside science's domain.

If God is omniscient than why is Caan able to hide from him, why does he change his mind and flood the world instead of doing it right the first time, why does he allow Satan to tempt people?
Who is Caan? Also due to agency, also due to precedent-setting, also due to weirdness regarding the word "perfect".

If God is omnipotent how is it that he can be beaten by iron chariots?
You're gonna have to cite that one for me.
 

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
I thought we live on Earth
That's you people's problems y'all are afraid of not understanding things and only want to rely on solid evidence when you can't understand everything and miracles happen every day for solid evidence faith in anything by definition is a blind belief in somthing so stop trying to understand everything
 

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
I so do love that you actually replied to this.

God is Jealous. He demands respect. If you turn his back on him or worship another he will cast you away from Heaven to suffer for eternity without him. All humans are to punished from birth for the mistakes of Adam and Eve, even though he gave them free will. Free will is not free will when you will be punished for exercising it. God is not the Only Good. Unless of you 'pray'(beg) for forgiveness/repent. He is the exact idea of a charismatic Tyrant.

I'm done talking about this though, I'll leave your thread be. Maybe when you are older and have gone through being a Missionary or something I'll talk about this again. As it stands you are too young.
I actually agree with the last part I am really young and wish I was older and gone through things so I could better explain these things to you
 

w0nd3rb0y

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
May 4, 2012
Location
Charlotte, North Carolina
All of you seem to be reading into the bible too much. Fact is the bible was written by men, therefore not infallible. Quoting versus does not a good Christian make, but faith alone is what saves you. The bible is the accounts of man, and due to contrary belief is most likely not the "word" of God, but a testament to faith. God does not judge you on your merits alone, but for your faith. We are saved under Grace, regardless of your sins. There is only on commandment you should live by if you are a christian, and it was delivered by Christ. He said, Love thy neighbor, as I have loved you. It may seem difficult at times, but that is what you should strive for.
 

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
I'm glad most of the arguing is out of here. I hope some of you though would tag along with me and read the bible but I feel uncomfortable at this age trying to explain things to people that y'all may reject it just because of my age
 

Dazureus

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Location
Texas
But if you're saying that God created Humans along with the earth and the rest of life, then please explain to me why the human race is 10 million years old when there excisted life on Tellus already 500 million years ago. The bible estimates that humans were created along with all life, but the people in the 100-200 AC did NOT have the techonology to come to this conclusion. Ergo the Bible contains major flaws which also leaves major flaws in the very idea of Christianity.
Could you chill for me, EtKenn? Little bit?

God is God. He did what He did, how He said He did it, however it happened. He could have taken millennia per "day" described in Genesis, He could have made the Earth look old and developed, or He could even have used evolution to set the stage for human history. I'm not convinced that evolution is actually a thing, but I might be wrong and that's okay because God is God and the Bible is not a science textbook.
 

w0nd3rb0y

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
May 4, 2012
Location
Charlotte, North Carolina
I so do love that you actually replied to this.

God is Jealous. He demands respect. If you turn his back on him or worship another he will cast you away from Heaven to suffer for eternity without him. All humans are to punished from birth for the mistakes of Adam and Eve, even though he gave them free will. Free will is not free will when you will be punished for exercising it. God is not the Only Good. Unless of you 'pray'(beg) for forgiveness/repent. He is the exact idea of a charismatic Tyrant.

I'm done talking about this though, I'll leave your thread be. Maybe when you are older and have gone through being a Missionary or something I'll talk about this again. As it stands you are too young.
What a terrible way to live. God does not want you to live in fear. We do not suffer for Eve's sin. We were freed through the crucifixion. We Jesus said "It is finished" he meant it.
 

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
People are missing the point of this thread and making it into a argument somthing which it is not so I'm gonna stop posting help untill I'm older and can help better but y'all can continue and I hope maybe somone got the truth and real meaning of this thread
 

Ostadar

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Okay, one last statement. First of Lief, that was very rude. Not once did I actually attack him so I found that fairly insulting. Two, I'm not even an atheist, or agnostic, I won't share what I am but I'm not a Christian. I've grown up in a mixed denomination household so I've gotten a fair look a Christianity throughout a fair amount of my life. I respect Christians for their faith, and I think they are good people in most cases. I just don't like the inconsistencies.
What a terrible way to live. God does not want you to live in fear. We do not suffer for Eve's sin. We were freed through the crucifixion. We Jesus said "It is finished" he meant it.
Different denominations tell you different things when it comes to that part about Eve.
 

Acherous

Staff member
Moderator
Legacy Supporter 9
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Location
Houston
Don't feel like typing up my own argument so here. This disprove Christianity in quite a few ways. Note that I did not write this.
For this to work, we have to agree on the following two statements, and accept that Christians believe them to the true: -

God is infallible
The Bible is the true word of God
These aren’t outrageous statements, and in fact, have been echoed on this very blog numerous times in the comments.

The two statements above are clearly interdependent. The Bible tells Christians that God is infallible, and Christians believe the Bible because they believe it was written by an infallible deity. Almost a self-fulfilling prophecy, almost. So the start of our logical deduction must be the Bible, so let’s concentrate on that.

Let’s take the Christian God’s greatest act, creating the world and all who live on it (indirectly). The start of all this, on God’s own words: “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day”. Using genealogy, we can roughly estimate the age of the earth, as stated by the Bible, to be 6500 years. The very top estimate would be close to 10,000 years, but that’s a stretch. Science has proven that the earth is closer to 4.5 billion years old. Radiometric dating has shown us this, and has remained consistent with lunar and terrestrial samples. In other words, we haven’t just tested this once in one situation, it’s been extensively tested. This isn’t a guess, or a hunch, there’s a substantial amount of evidence to back this up.

And that’s the geological age of the earth. What about the creatures on the earth? We, as human beings, were created 6500 years ago, according to the Bible, starting with Adam and then Eve. The oldest discovered human fossil is approximately 1,300,000 (1.3 million) years old. That would have meant that humans lived on earth before God created either humans or the earth. In fact, depending on how much evidence you consider to be acceptable, and how you define us as a species, you could place humans at between 1.8 million and 130,000 years old. No one could sensibly claim that humans are less than 130,000 years old. There is simply too much evidence available for our inspection. Either way, much older than the Bible’s claims.

Let’s take another example. God decided that the earth needed cleansing, so he instructed Noah to gather up two of ever species to save. Everything other than Noah, his family (or part of his family) and the animals he chose to save would be killed. There are around 10 MILLION known species of animal on our planet. Male and female, that would be 20 million animals Noah saved. I’ve never seen a boat that big, even with modern engineering techniques. Noah also would have had to travel to different parts of the earth to collect the various animals. You rarely see a penguin and a scorpion living in the same location (zoos don’t count). He then, after the waters had receded, would have had to return them to their original locations. You also have to question to environment on board Noah’s Ark, an environment that could sustain animals that require intense heat and animals that require intense cold, as well as Noah and his family that required a more moderate climate. Impossible.

Just so we’re clear, I’m establishing that that the Bible is inaccurate. Not just inaccurate, but massively inaccurate. There are more examples of course, some which make it clear that the author of the Bible thinks the world is flat, some which make it clear that the author thought the world did not move and then there are more considered examples, such as the value of pi being unknown at the time (surely God would have known it!?!).

So this is my statement, logically derived from the above.

“The Bible is inaccurate – therefore God is fallible – therefore the definition of God is incorrect – therefore God does not exist.”

To add a touch of justification to this, let’s break it down. We know the Bible is inaccurate, in fact the Bible is contradictory within its own pages. The Bible is the only place that defines God, and God is defined as being infallible. The Bible is also stated as being of God’s word (albeit written by man, see below). Seeing as we know the only source that defines the Christian God is inaccurate, and at least part of the definition is inaccurate (infallible), we can not trust the remainder of the definition. Therefore the definition of God in invalid and God does not exist.

There will come arguments from Christians that while God is infallible, and the Bible is the true word of God, the Bible was in fact written by man, who is fallible. This does not hold up when you examine the scale and volume of inaccuracies held within the Bible. I can understand man rounding down the value of pi, for example, but to get the entire creation story wrong is a bit of a stretch. Likewise, given that God is all powerful, he surely would not have left an obviously inaccurate account of his greatest work go to press, or was that just another sign of his fallibility?

I think I’ve made a stronger argument, based on Christian beliefs, for the non existence of God than there ever has been for the existence of such a deity.
 

Aerokii

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
May 23, 2011
Location
Minnesota
Don't feel like typing up my own argument so here. This disprove Christianity in quite a few ways. Note that I did not write this.

This argument takes a few liberties- namely that it assumes if Christians are wrong about God (particularly specific details such as infallibility, or the accuracy of the bible), that since these things are wrong, all of it must be wrong. So, to put it into purely logic terms, !x --> !y, or, not x, therefore, not y, where x is "infallibility" and y is "Christianity." However, the only way for an "if, then" statement in logic to return false (logic, not comp sci) is if the premise is true "God is infallible" and the result is false "Christianity is wrong about everything." So, to simplify, using 0 as false and 1 as true,

1 --> 1 == 1
1--> 0 == 0
0 --> 1 == 1
0 -->0 == 1

If you want a proof of this, go take a logic course, but to sum it up, if a premise is ever false, it doesn't matter what the result is, you cannot prove it false. Now, this is a little simplistic for a wide ranging topic such as Christianity, but just because there exists an "X" where a Christian's belief is wrong, that does not mean "For all beliefs, Christianity is wrong." It just means they got that part wrong, or that we do not fully understand it.

Now, all that being said, I believe there's a great deal in the bible that we should not take literally, as, at best, it's man's interpretation of God's word, and given man's obvious fallibility, there are bound to be mistakes (just look at how many times it's been revised and changed. If you ever want a humorous look at the "original" interpretation, check out "the brick testament" (www.thebricktestament.com)) but this does not mean that there is no God- just that humans can often get things wrong.
 

UnknownK9

Iron
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Here is a list of some of the MAJOR religions mind telling me what is different about this one?
2,085 BC. Judaism-Abraham

1,500 BC. Hinduism- no specific founder

560 BC. Buddhism- Gautama Buddha

550 BC. Taoism - Lao Tzu

599 BC. Jainism, Mahavira

30 AD. Christianity –Jesus Christ

50-100 AD. Gnosticism-

150-250 AD. -Modalism (Monarchianism)–Sabellius, Praxeus, Noetus, Paul of Samosata

325 AD. -After being persecuted for almost 200 years Constantine made the Church becomes a legal religion, compromise begins to enter.

590 AD.-Roman Catholicism- Developed after Constantine; Pope Gregory?

610 AD.- Islam- Mohammed

1400 AD.- Rosicrucians-Christian Rosenkreuz (1694 US) Rosicrucians- Master Kelpius, Johann Andrea

1515 AD.- Protestantism- (Reformers) Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, John Calvin

1650 AD.- Tibetan Buddhism-Dalai Lama

1700 AD.- Freemasony- Albert Mackey, Albert Pike

1760 AD.-Swedenborgism- Emmanuel Swedenborg

1784 AD.- Shakers - Mother Ann Lee

1830 AD.- Mormonism – Joseph Smith

1830 AD.-Cambellites-Alexander & Thomas Cambell, Barton Stone

1838 AD.-Tenrikyo- Miki Maegawa Nakayama

1844 AD.-Christadelphians- John Thomas

1840-45 AD.-Millerites 2nd day Adventists –William Miller then became 7th Day Adventists

1844 AD.-Bahai- Baha'u'llah (Abul Baha)

1845-1870AD.- 7th Day Adventists-E.G. White

1848 AD.-Spiritualism - Kate and Margaret Fox

1870 AD.-Jehovah's Witnesses- Charles Taze Russell

1875 AD.-Theosophical Society- H.P. Blavatsky, Henry Olcott

1879 AD.-Christian Science-Mary Baker Eddy

1889-1924 AD.-Unity School of Christianity- Myrtle Fillmore

1900 AD.-Rosicrucian Fellowship-Max Heindel

1902 AD.- Anthroposophical Society –Rudolf Steiner

1906 AD. -The Pentecostal Assemblies of the World

1914 AD.- Iglesia ni Cristo- Felix Manalo

1914 AD.- Oneness Pentecostalism- Frank Ewart, G.T.Haywood, Glenn Cook

1917 AD.-True Jesus Church. Founders Paul Wei, Lingsheng Chang and Barnabas Chang

1930 AD. -Black Muslims (Nation of Islam) –Wallace D. Fard

1927 AD.- Mind Science- Ernest Holmes

1934 AD.-World Wide Church of God- Herbert W. Armstrong

1935 AD.-Self Realization Fellowship- Paramahansa Yogananda

1954 AD.- Unification Church- Sun Myung Moon

1945 AD. -The Way -Victor P.Wierwille

1948 AD.- Latter Rain –Franklin Hall, George Warnock.

1964 AD.- Eckankar The Ancient Science of Soul Travel (Eck). Founded by Paul Twitchell

1968 AD.- Hare Krishna (US)- Swami Prabhupada

1968 AD.- Children of God- David (Moses) Berg

1945 AD.-United Pentecostal International- Howard Goss, W.T. Witherspoon (can be traced back to 1914)

1944 AD.- Silva Mind Control –Jose Silva

1950 AD.-Urantia Book- Dr. Bill Sadler

1950 AD.-Lafayette Ronald Hubbard published his book Dianetics-SCIENTOLOGY

1954 AD.-Atherius Society (UFO’s)- Dr. George King

1955 AD.- Scientology- L. Ron Hubbard

1958 AD.- Institute of Divine Metaphysical Research- Henry Kinley

1958-1970 AD.- Church Universal and Triumphant –Mark and E.C. Prophet

1958 AD. -Henry Kinley begins (IDMR) the Institute of Divine Metaphysical Research

1959 AD.-Unitariarian Universalist

1960 AD.-Transcendental meditation- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

1960 AD.-Enkankar- Paul Twitchell

1961 AD.- Unitarian Universalism was officially formed.

1965 AD.-Assembly of Yahweh-Jacob Meyer

1966 AD.- Church of Satan –Anton LaVey

1970 AD.-Findhorn Community –Peter and Eileen Caddy –David Spangler

1970 AD.- Divine light Mission- Guru Maharaj Ji

1973 AD.- CARP was established in the United States. [The Collegiate Association for the Research of Principles] to introduce the teachings of un Myung Moon.

1974 AD.-Assemblies of Yahweh-Sam Suratt

1979 AD.-Church of Christ International - Kip McKean

1980 -1982 AD.- Tara Center-Benjamen Crème

1980 AD.- House of Yahweh (Abilene) Jacob Hawkins
 

Keache

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Location
New Hampshire
This
All of you seem to be reading into the bible too much. Fact is the bible was written by men, therefore not infallible. Quoting versus does not a good Christian make, but faith alone is what saves you. The bible is the accounts of man, and due to contrary belief is most likely not the "word" of God, but a testament to faith. God does not judge you on your merits alone, but for your faith. We are saved under Grace, regardless of your sins. There is only on commandment you should live by if you are a christian, and it was delivered by Christ. He said, Love thy neighbor, as I have loved you. It may seem difficult at times, but that is what you should strive for.
.

ALLLL of this.

Personally, I try to be very open minded. At the end of the day, though, there is so very little that we know/will know. I put my trust in my faith because life is too much of a miracle to simply be. Things in the bible may or may not have actually happened, but in the end it speaks a good message that everyone should follow; love each other. Sure, like wonder said, the bible and most things from long ago may be inaccurate due to age and the infallibility of man, but the one thing that is not infallible is what Jesus teaches; Loves others. It's a real challenge in today's world, but in the end it's worth it. Following his teachings and the bible and most faiths in general will help you and others to live a truly happy life. If anything, religion has helped me to be a better person that I could have otherwise been, and for that I am very thankful.
 

Jmandudeguy

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
I really hate these discussions............ I really do. The reason I chose to STOP believing in God is the fact that even though a bible exists there are fallacies in it. For one many Christians claim that we were created by God on one "day" (note I understand there are arguments about how long a day for God is), but when I look at nature around me I don't see the hand of some divine force. I see the power of evolution and the statement "survival of the fittest". I look to science when I have a question because the answers are logical and comprehensible, but most of all reasonable. When I look to the bible the answers are philosophical and can sometimes contradict what our current society believes in. For example "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT). This quote is from the the bible stating that we can own slaves a subject that is now considered taboo. The bible had its place among people years ago when it gave people something to look for and a way to organize society, but today its information is outdated and is all but true. However this is not my biggest problem with Christianity. My biggest problem with any religion is the fact that a large amount of its followers are either completely misinformed and know very little about it, or they do not even follow the rules that are put in place by their holy book, leaders, or god. They are the sole reason I chose to stop believing in a God. I saw too many people saying they were Christians when most of them acted in the complete opposite way, and the most of the other Christians are blind sheep following their leader. I believe that God was invented by these "pastors" to control the people in ancient times and the fact that is still here today should be credited to luck and the fact that all people that are religious are only religious because they want to go somewhere after death. My last "pet peeve" is that Christians always and I mean ALWAYS feel the need to make something like this to "bring others to Jesus" when in reality this pushes most away. Nobody wants to be browsing a video game forum and find some stupid ass discussion about why you should join Jesus' army and become a Christian. It is annoying and plain stupid. The fact is we have reached the day where religion is no longer needed and as we progress as a species we will start to lean toward fact instead of fiction. So in the future try to think twice about posting a thread about Jesus when most people either don't care or have already heard about him because I am pretty sure most people in this forum know about Jesus and already have made the decision to either believe or to not believe.
 
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