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Bible/come to Jesus

Ostadar

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Yep and recently they found out that in DNA it seems we all came from the same original humans
It was also determined about half of the worlds population are descended from Genghis Khan. So what is your point? The human species had to descend from an original pair and that has been accepted even in science. It's always been known that there have been the 'first' humans. The only difference is Creationism versus Evolutionism. And some other theories I forgot.

bob_de_blastoise said:
Wherea the proof there is not god? life itself is evidence of a god
Life is only evidence that there is life. Proof of God would be direct divine intervention; equivalent of that of him telling people directly that he exists and showing up in front of them out of thin air. As it stands though that this is unlikely to happen Gods existence is a thing of faith and pulling the existence of Life as prove of his existence is flimsy evidence at best, since there are other theories of how Life came to be that are just as valid.
 

STDs4YouAnd4Me

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
We could go on and on trying to prove each other wrong, but I suggest you read the bible through then you may understand that there is concrete evidence that God is real when he calls you and everything in the bible is geographically corect where they could for example tell the Tower of Babel was there

As I stated, I read the bible. I was a devout Christian, like yourself. I can read Winnie The Pooh and find concrete evidence that a walking, talking bear who loves honey and while wearing a red shirt roamed the Earth. It's my choice whether to seperate stories as facts or fables, and I've made my choice.
 

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
To add onto this, life itself is NOT proof that there is a God. I'm assuming you're a creationist who believes that the Universe and everything that resides in it was created by your God. I've already seen your poor attempt to paraphrase what Atheists believe (that nothing was created out of nothing by noboby). If your belief is that "the Universe can't come out of nothing, so God must have created it" then who created God? Why is God exempt from that rule, but the Universe isn't?

I won't make a fool of myself and pretend like I know exactly how the Universe came about. All I am saying is that if your argument is "Something can't come out of nothing, so that is God's doing" then the next logical thought that SHOULD pop into your head is "Something (God) can't come out of nothing, so... wait, oops?".
Ok that atheism post was just somthing I found on the Internet and I wouldn't sum it up like that, but when you think about it there being a god is far more logical then just a whole universe out there and there had to be somthing there to start it all both you and every person on earth understands that
 

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
As I stated, I read the bible. I was a devout Christian, like yourself. I can read Winnie The Pooh and find concrete evidence that a walking, talking bear who loves honey and while wearing a red shirt roamed the Earth. It's my choice whether to seperate stories as facts or fables, and I've made my choice.
I understand you've may your choice and I respect that but you were changed once and can be changed again
 

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
It was also determined about half of the worlds population are descended from Genghis Khan. So what is your point? The human species had to descend from an original pair and that has been accepted even in science. It's always been known that there have been the 'first' humans. The only difference is Creationism versus Evolutionism. And some other theories I forgot.


Life is only evidence that there is life. Proof of God would be direct divine intervention; equivalent of that of him telling people directly that he exists and showing up in front of them out of thin air. As it stands though that this is unlikely to happen Gods existence is a thing of faith and pulling the existence of Life as prove of his existence is flimsy evidence at best, since there are other theories of how Life came to be that are just as valid.
Life being as perfect as it is could not just have been made by a bang. Look at everything around you it makes you want to believe something created it. It is created to perfection and only a higher being could have done that
 

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
Like Ive said before I don't want this to be an argument between religions but a call.You can tag along and listen to verses and ask questions but I don't want it to just be a big argument. I want it to get to people and be something more than that
 

STDs4YouAnd4Me

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
...but when you think about it there being a god is far more logical then just a whole universe out there and there had to be somthing there to start it all both you and every person on earth understands that

Logical? I know you're a Christian, and there are far too many things in the bible that defy logic I don't know where to begin.
- Talking snake that is actually Satan?
- Virgin birth
- Noah putting 2 of every animal and every species of these animals on 1 giant boat
- Moses parting the sea
- Jesus turning water into wine
- Jesus bringing a man back from the dead
- Jesus coming back from the dead himself

These are just off the top of my head, and I'm a little rusty since I haven't thought about this topic in quite some time. In a nutshell, don't tell me that logic falls in your favour when the bible is filled with events that haven't been witnessed (excluding in the Bible, the very document under suspicion at the moment).
 

Dazureus

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Location
Texas
Honestly, I'm not going to base my whole life off of a book (The Bible). I really can't trust a book 100% that has no scientific backing and could just be a myth.
And thus does the divergence become particularly evident.

In what is basically opposite to what you seem to be saying, I don't trust science. That sounds bad, but what I mean is that modern-day science is a paradigm, and when anomalies bunch up paradigms shift, and it's obvious that we don't have everything figured out yet. Something will change, and who knows how many theories it could upset? It's a good thing that the Bible isn't a scientific textbook.

The bible was passed on through oral tradition before they decided to write it down and after playing telephone in my classes I know how that works. Who knows who even wrote the bible? Couldn't it have been a tool to control people like religion has been used over time (I'm refering to such things as Divine Right)? What's the difference between the Ancient Greek Gods and the current Gods we have today, why are they anymore real then the greek ones?
It was oral tradition for a while, yes. But I have evidence that what is said is true, and as such I believe that it was handed down with God watching over it.

The Greek gods and other pantheons were too tied to the material world. They were disproved. And Jehova God was not, because of His nature and because His real goal isn't material.

Plenty of awful and manipulative things have been done in God's name. But you can read it nowadays, and you can see how wrong they were to do so.

The majority of children that live in religous areas such as America and the Middle East, are taught to believe in their religon since day one. In North Koreans kids are told that us from the US are terrible people from day one, they tell their that North Korea is the greatest and strongest nation even though they aren't, I'm not saying religion is a lie because usually the people who tell you that their God exists actually believe in them. I was taught to believe in the Christian God from day one as well, never even questioned if God didn't exist, such an idea couldn't take place in my head. But one day I realized that I don't feel a connection to some kind of divine being and that I never have. This is my view on religion and how I became a nonbeliever, so no hate plox.
And the other difference. You didn't feel the connection. That's something of a fault of your environment, I'd say. It's true that your upbringing has an enormous effect on your mind, and I don't deny that one of the reasons I believe in God is because of how I was raised. But beyond Sunday school as a kid, the wise, selfless, genuine examples of some of the people I knew me showed me that they had something real. And upon realizing that I didn't feel anything, I followed their examples, and things started to change.

So now you're saying I'm wrong? I choose of my own will not to believe in a God that condones violence slavery and rape. I do what I believe to be best.
Slavery was primarily cultural and didn't carry half the negative connotations that it does now. I don't believe He has ever condoned rape. And a God with mastery over life also has the right to end it. He's definitely not all fuzzy warmness and squishy angel babies, but if He was His promises wouldn't mean as much.
 

STDs4YouAnd4Me

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Life being as perfect as it is could not just have been made by a bang. Look at everything around you it makes you want to believe something created it. It is created to perfection and only a higher being could have done that

Life is what you make of it, but life is far from perfect. If God made us and the universe perfectly, there wouldn't be disease. There wouldn't be natural disasters. There wouldn't be babies that were born with mutations. There wouldn't be miscarriages.
 

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
I
Logical? I know you're a Christian, and there are far too many things in the bible that defy logic I don't know where to begin.
- Talking snake that is actually Satan?
- Virgin birth
- Noah putting 2 of every animal and every species of these animals on 1 giant boat
- Moses parting the sea
- Jesus turning water into wine
- Jesus bringing a man back from the dead
- Jesus coming back from the dead himself

These are just off the top of my head, and I'm a little rusty since I haven't thought about this topic in quite some time. In a nutshell, don't tell me that logic falls in your favour when the bible is filled with events that haven't been witnessed (excluding in the Bible, the very document under suspicion at the moment).
i was talking about the universe being created as perfect as it is there had to be Devine intervention
 

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
Life is what you make of it, but life is far from perfect. If God made us and the universe perfectly, there wouldn't be disease. There wouldn't be natural disasters. There wouldn't be babies that were born with mutations. There wouldn't be miscarriages.
These things weren't meant to be in Gods original plan and entered into the world with sin in the fall of man
 

STDs4YouAnd4Me

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
These things weren't meant to be in Gods original plan and entered into the world with sin in the fall of man
To BELIEVE that every single person who has been born after Eve is being punished just because she ate an apple is, excuse my language, kind of shitty. Why am I partly to blame and dealing with the effects of someone's poor choice many eons ago?

Secondly, no disrespect, but God is sort of shitty for giving us disease and natural disasters just because Eve disobeyed God by eating from the forbidden tree. Surely he understands that you or I had NOTHING to do with that. I guess he holds grudges for eternity.
 

Ostadar

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Life being as perfect as it is could not just have been made by a bang. Look at everything around you it makes you want to believe something created it. It is created to perfection and only a higher being could have done that
Life is far from perfect. Life as creatures are unique and wondrous; but perfect? No. Human beings have a variety of diseases that stem from genetic disorders, genetic decay, bad food, pollution, etc. This goes the same for animals. DNA breaks down over time, things like solar radiation and magnetic interference causes mutation in the cellular structure. Bacteria and viruses plague the body and some kill the host even before they can move to the next, essentially wiping themselves out in the need to reproduce themselves as quickly as possible.

There is also over-population, famine, war, poverty. None of these are what any average person would call Perfect.
 

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
To BELIEVE that every single person who has been born after Eve is being punished just because she ate an apple is, excuse my language, kind of shitty. Why am I partly to blame and dealing with the effects of someone's poor choice many eons ago?

Secondly, no disrespect, but God is sort of shitty for giving us disease and natural disasters just because Eve disobeyed God by eating from the forbidden tree. Surely he understands that you or I had NOTHING to do with that. I guess he holds grudges for eternity.
God is a holy god therefore he can not be in the presence of any sin and everyone but Jesus has and will continue sinning you and I sin every day and as for him to being a bad god . He offers redemption in the form of Jesus when everyone deserves hell and I for one am happy to know that he is loving and forgiving enough to offer a way of redemption and glad I get to take part in it because I know I deserve hell and everyone on Earth sins everyday so its not all on eve. Also Eve was deceived, Adam willingly took the fruit so Adam was the first to sin and sin is passed through the man because of this. That is why Jesus is perfect he had no human father
 

Fjordsen

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
If he forced his will you would not be atheist right now but he gives us the choice to choose wrong or right
With this statement you are indirectly saying that Atheism is wrong. If you were to tell a non-human create (Implying that it excists) abou Christiniaty and Atheism, what do you think he woulda thought about what's wrong and right? Christianity: The belief that the words written in lots of books put into one are true, holy and are to be followed. And that there is an invisible creature living above us who control the universe. Atheism: The belief that there are no supernatural powers that control the universe or life.

The person you told this, would probably think a few cables has broken in the head of these "Christians". I find it rather silly that grown men and women believe that their life is being controlled by some supernatural power and that the words written by various authors that have been put into a book are true and holy. I have been to lots of christian meetings myself since my family is quite religious, but every single time I find myself in the need of yelling "How can you all be so blind that you believe in supernatural powers in your age?" I hear those grown adults standing on the podium yelling "I can feel Jesus inside me, he has spoke to me and told me what's good and bad" All I feel is that these persons needs to get a mental check for hearing voices in their head.

One of the basic arguments against Atheism is "All your explainations are theories" Well these theories are backed up by scientic evidence. However the entire idea of religion is based on stories being told trough generations and "magic" written in some old books. Don't even try to claim that the Bible is 100% true. Some stuff in the bible like "A man is allowed to beat his wife" or "Moses splits an entire sea in two" is clearly barbaric and based on fairytales.

Sorry that I had to go this far, but i'm that kind of person who can't keep myself shut when I have a strong opinion. My comparison of Christianity and Atheism might be harsh, but I believe that someone from a neutral perspective would agree.

Now tell me Christians, how can the Evolution be false when there is clear evidence of life way past any human could excist?
 

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
Again
Life is far from perfect. Life as creatures are unique and wondrous; but perfect? No. Human beings have a variety of diseases that stem from genetic disorders, genetic decay, bad food, pollution, etc. This goes the same for animals. DNA breaks down over time, things like solar radiation and magnetic interference causes mutation in the cellular structure. Bacteria and viruses plague the body and some kill the host even before they can move to the next, essentially wiping themselves out in the need to reproduce themselves as quickly as possible.

There is also over-population, famine, war, poverty. None of these are what any average person would call Perfect.
again entered into the world with sin
 

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
With this statement you are indirectly saying that Atheism is wrong. If you were to tell a non-human create (Implying that it excists) abou Christiniaty and Atheism, what do you think he woulda thought about what's wrong and right? Christianity: The belief that the words written in lots of books put into one are true, holy and are to be followed. And that there is an invisible creature living above us who control the universe. Atheism: The belief that there are no supernatural powers that control the universe or life.

The person you told this, would probably think a few cables has broken in the head of these "Christians". I find it rather silly that grown men and women believe that their life is being controlled by some supernatural power and that the words written by various authors that have been put into a book are true and holy. I have been to lots of christian meetings myself since my family is quite religious, but every single time I find myself in the need of yelling "How can you all be so blind that you believe in supernatural powers in your age?" I hear those grown adults standing on the podium yelling "I can feel Jesus inside me, he has spoke to me and told me what's good and bad" All I feel is that these persons needs to get a mental check for hearing voices in their head.

One of the basic arguments against Atheism is "All your explainations are theories" Well these theories are backed up by scientic evidence. However the entire idea of religion is based on stories being told trough generations and "magic" written in some old books. Don't even try to claim that the Bible is 100% true. Some stuff in the bible like "A man is allowed to beat his wife" or "Moses splits an entire sea in two" is clearly barbaric and based on fairytales.

Sorry that I had to go this far, but i'm that kind of person who can't keep myself shut when I have a strong opinion. My comparison of Christianity and Atheism might be harsh, but I believe that someone from a neutral perspective would agree.

Now tell me Christians, how can the Evolution be false when there is clear evidence of life way past any human could excist?
God did not evolve from anything and made humans in his image to worship him, and the Bible is not all Christianity is ITS ABOUT A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD and I for one think how could somone not believe a higher being created us
 

Dazureus

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Location
Texas
To BELIEVE that every single person who has been born after Eve is being punished just because she ate an apple is, excuse my language, kind of shitty. Why am I partly to blame and dealing with the effects of someone's poor choice many eons ago?

Secondly, no disrespect, but God is sort of shitty for giving us disease and natural disasters just because Eve disobeyed God by eating from the forbidden tree. Surely he understands that you or I had NOTHING to do with that. I guess he holds grudges for eternity.
It feels like things are getting heated, STDs. May want to keep a rein on your emotions.

We're out of the Garden, yes, but that's because we're still impure and immature. Satan and the Fall might have kicked it off but we haven't fixed it since then. And I basically think that this is because human's have their free will and agency, and can affect other folks. If everyone was simple or flawless... well, we wouldn't be here.

Additionally, fun fact, corporate blame ended with the Old Testament. We have our way into Eden these days, but the mortal stage is still a hand-me-down with an expiration date.
 

Fjordsen

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
God did not evolve from anything and made humans in his image to worship him, and the Bible is not all Christianity is ITS ABOUT A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD and I for one think how could somone not believe a higher being created us
But if you're saying that God created Humans along with the earth and the rest of life, then please explain to me why the human race is 10 million years old when there excisted life on Tellus already 500 million years ago. The bible estimates that humans were created along with all life, but the people in the 100-200 AC did NOT have the techonology to come to this conclusion. Ergo the Bible contains major flaws which also leaves major flaws in the very idea of Christianity.
 

Bob_de_Blastoise

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
Louisiana, U.S
But if you're saying that God created Humans along with the earth and the rest of life, then please explain to me why the human race is 10 million years old when there excisted life on Tellus already 500 million years ago. The bible estimates that humans were created along with all life, but the people in the 100-200 AC did NOT have the techonology to come to this conclusion. Ergo the Bible contains major flaws which also leaves major flaws in the very idea of Christianity.
Ok what is Tellus?
 
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