New Class: Shaman

[0xNaomi]

I do like these... which means I think they should have a melee-buff totem, similar to windfury on WoW - huh?

On another thought, a melee buff totem would mean that it could probably deal some decent damage if opts to use that totem as its means of attack.
However, I'd say it could balance out here. Unlike Might on Cleric, you'd have to give up your totem to use it, which could have been allocated to something probably more powerful.
Does bring possible worries that the class gets good at everything, though. It'd not only able to switch between heals and melee and magic at will, but with the healing skills and all its magic powered skills (on Malik's idea) I'd be able to heal and do magic damage even with its melee totem out.
Basically, a melee buff totem's balance to me depends on if not having the other totems out makes you miss out on that much more compared to what you could be using, yet still having it be useful in itself.

 

[malikdanab]

On another thought, a melee buff totem would mean that it could probably deal some decent damage if opts to use that totem as its means of attack.
However, I'd say it could balance out here. Unlike Might on Cleric, you'd have to give up your totem to use it, which could have been allocated to something probably more powerful.
Does bring possible worries that the class gets good at everything, though. It'd not only able to switch between heals and melee and magic at will, but with the healing skills and all its magic powered skills (on Malik's idea) I'd be able to heal and do magic damage even with its melee totem out.
Basically, a melee buff totem's balance to me depends on if not having the other totems out makes you miss out on that much more compared to what you could be using, yet still having it be useful in itself.

I think I agree with this (Might need to reword this...). I think that each totem should have it's role.

The magic totems will have lower DPS compared to the melee totem, but they are also magic damage. This would mean that you would use the melee totem on magi/healers who have low melee damage (So fighting up close won't be dangerous) and low armor (so using melee against them will be effective).

On the flip side, if you are fighting a warrior you would use Shock/FireStrike since they allow you to kite around the totem and their magic damage will pierce armor.

I believe it's fine for shaman to be able to do everything well. The difference between it and say bard, is that while shamans skills are more powerful, you can only use one totem at time. So while it's damage may be comparable to wizard or it's heals to cleric it can only do this if it chooses to. It can't do everything at the same time like other "Jack-of-All-Trades" classes.

 

[0xNaomi]

I think I agree with this (Might need to reword this...). I think that each totem should have it's role.

The magic totems will have lower DPS compared to the melee totem, but they are also magic damage. This would mean that you would use the melee totem on magi/healers who have low melee damage (So fighting up close won't be dangerous) and low armor (so using melee against them will be effective).

On the flip side, if you are fighting a warrior you would use Shock/FireStrike since they allow you to kite around the totem and their magic damage will pierce armor.

I believe it's fine for shaman to be able to do everything well. The difference between it and say bard, is that while shamans skills are more powerful, you can only use one totem at time. So while it's damage may be comparable to wizard or it's heals to cleric it can only do this if it chooses to. It can't do everything at the same time like other "Jack-of-All-Trades" classes.

Yeah, in a land with just totems, there is always a tradeoff for your power in not having the others to use.
My concern is when you add the other skills into the mix. Even by your latest skillset idea it not only has access to heals at all times (yay, healers) but magic as well, independent of totems. I get healing at all times, but that much magic powered damage when it could have a melee totem seems dangerous without proper thought.

Now for something irrelevant:
"In the Totem, the Might-y Totem, the Shaman sleeps tonight~"

 

[0xNaomi]

I do like these... which means I think they should have a melee-buff totem, similar to windfury on WoW - huh?

@malikdanab appeared to possibly be thinking of a melee totem as one that ticks melee damage based on what I read, so quoting to clarify that as far as I see, it'd be more like a totem-ized might or some other buff.
If I assumed wrong, then just clarification all around.

 

[malikdanab]

@malikdanab appeared to possibly be thinking of a melee totem as one that ticks melee damage based on what I read, so quoting to clarify that as far as I see, it'd be more like a totem-ized might or some other buff.
If I assumed wrong, then just clarification all around.

Yeah. I though of the totem as a stationary "Might Aura." The clarification is that he mentioned "Wind Fury" which increases your melee DPS (In the game it Increases attack speed, but you can't do that in MC...)

 

[0xNaomi]

Yeah. I though of the totem as a stationary "Might Aura." The clarification is that he mentioned "Wind Fury" which increases your melee DPS (In the game it Increases attack speed, but you can't do that in MC...)

We can increase or lower the rate a target can take damage with some trickery methinks, but that's from any source.

 

[Kainzo]

I think I agree with this (Might need to reword this...). I think that each totem should have it's role.

The magic totems will have lower DPS compared to the melee totem, but they are also magic damage. This would mean that you would use the melee totem on magi/healers who have low melee damage (So fighting up close won't be dangerous) and low armor (so using melee against them will be effective).

On the flip side, if you are fighting a warrior you would use Shock/FireStrike since they allow you to kite around the totem and their magic damage will pierce armor.

I believe it's fine for shaman to be able to do everything well. The difference between it and say bard, is that while shamans skills are more powerful, you can only use one totem at time. So while it's damage may be comparable to wizard or it's heals to cleric it can only do this if it chooses to. It can't do everything at the same time like other "Jack-of-All-Trades" classes.

It's damage should not be comparable to a wizard. A class can't do everything well - that isn't balanced. A class must have weakness and limiting its special trait to just one at a time isnt particularly "weak".

The magic is lower than wizards
The healing is around Druid's
The melee is around bard/paladin

Now, where shaman shines is in its totem use and mixing that with skills - but this class should never outmatch any of its bencharks one on one.

Remember: by design this is a support class. Not a "lets win at everything and be the only viable option" class.

Now, I think it would be a good idea to require the Shaman to have a totem reagent - one that never gets used up but they have to have on their persons to use totems. Thoughts? Dragon Egg would be nifty but insanely hard to get. I think limiting the totems to be used only with X item (when cast) and then swapping away will increase the difficulty/use of the class.

 

[0xNaomi]

Now, I think it would be a good idea to require the Shaman to have a totem reagent - one that never gets used up but they have to have on their persons to use totems. Thoughts? Dragon Egg would be nifty but insanely hard to get. I think limiting the totems to be used only with X item (when cast) and then swapping away will increase the difficulty/use of the class.

If the item was soulbound and/or could be summoned then it might work, but that's pretty complex.
If it's not able to keep on death or summon, then it's even worse. Suddenly, it's penalized 5-6 skills, much less the skills that are the backbone of the entire class.

 

[malikdanab]

It's damage should not be comparable to a wizard. A class can't do everything well - that isn't balanced. A class must have weakness and limiting its special trait to just one at a time isnt particularly "weak".

The magic is lower than wizards
The healing is around Druid's
The melee is around bard/paladin

Now, where shaman shines is in its totem use and mixing that with skills - but this class should never outmatch any of its bencharks one on one.

Remember: by design this is a support class. Not a "lets win at everything and be the only viable option" class.

Now, I think it would be a good idea to require the Shaman to have a totem reagent - one that never gets used up but they have to have on their persons to use totems. Thoughts? Dragon Egg would be nifty but insanely hard to get. I think limiting the totems to be used only with X item (when cast) and then swapping away will increase the difficulty/use of the class.

I never said they are VERY strong, but there is no doubt that shaman is very versatile. What I meant by that statement is that if a shaman puts out a Firestrike totem and uses it's spell it will be doing "Around" mage lvl damage. Though this would hinder it's ability to heal. I said it can do everything "well" I didn't use "great." As a jack-of-all-trade class it isn't really "Bad" in a particular area.

In the case of a "Special Regent" I'm not against the idea, but I find it more of a gimmick. Lore wise it would be interesting, but like Namoi said, it better be soulbound or it would cause too many problems.

Also, since when does Bard have "low" melee. There base damage is tied for highest (60) and warsong further increases that damage.

 

[0xNaomi]

It's damage should not be comparable to a wizard. A class can't do everything well - that isn't balanced. A class must have weakness and limiting its special trait to just one at a time isnt particularly "weak".

The magic is lower than wizards
The healing is around Druid's
The melee is around bard/paladin

Now, where shaman shines is in its totem use and mixing that with skills - but this class should never outmatch any of its bencharks one on one.

Remember: by design this is a support class. Not a "lets win at everything and be the only viable option" class.

I get that it's powers are not supposed to be the highest, but they all need to be feasible in at least some cases.
With these powers, I'd expect victory to come down to skill, management and player count rather than class counters. ("Oh no, I'm a melee class and that's a wizard at a distance")
Firestrike won't wipe the floor with a paladin, but it's useful. Melee won't wipe the floor with a wizard, but it's useful. Healing won't work as well as Bastion cleric, but it's useful.
And yes, obviously the assistive skills become exponentially (maybe not that much) better when allies are involved.
I would want to see this as able but require skill with it being very possible to fail.

 

[Kainzo]

If the item was soulbound and/or could be summoned then it might work, but that's pretty complex.
If it's not able to keep on death or summon, then it's even worse. Suddenly, it's penalized 5-6 skills, much less the skills that are the backbone of the entire class.

Items held or re-equipped doesnt allow for items to drop on death, so its not that bad. However, I'm fine with a more affordable totem reagent - something they have to hold/bind to is key, imo. Like the old envenom stuff.

Bard's should be low melee without their melee buff song - if its not, then we need to re-think some things there as well

 

[0xNaomi]

Items held or re-equipped doesnt allow for items to drop on death, so its not that bad. However, I'm fine with a more affordable totem reagent - something they have to hold/bind to is key, imo. Like the old envenom stuff.

Bard's should be low melee without their melee buff song - if its not, then we need to re-think some things there as well

Problem is you might be holding an axe or emeralds in a combat situation (or binds as it stands, which really screws over trying to hold this and cast it) so if you die it drops.

 

[Kainzo]

Problem is you might be holding an axe or emeralds in a combat situation (or binds as it stands, which really screws over trying to hold this and cast it) so if you die it drops.

Very true

 

[LightningCape]

A class must have weakness and limiting its special trait to just one at a time isnt particularly "weak".

Going to remember this next time people start talking about goon's jump. hehe

 

[0xNaomi]

Now, I think it would be a good idea to require the Shaman to have a totem reagent - one that never gets used up but they have to have on their persons to use totems. Thoughts? Dragon Egg would be nifty but insanely hard to get. I think limiting the totems to be used only with X item (when cast) and then swapping away will increase the difficulty/use of the class.

While this sounds far too complex, here's how I see this working with some thought.

1. Skill to grant dragon egg. Has lore, cannot be substituted for normal dragon egg ever.
2. If a totem skill is used while holding it (keybinds, typing) it works normally
3. If a totem skill is used otherwise you have to switch to it and left click where you want to place it
4. Egg is either kept or removed from existance (to force resummoning it) on death

 

[0xNaomi]

Shaman:
Is almost complete, thanks to @0xNaomi and the balance team for testing. Final stats and skill levels will be on test in the next few days. Expect a release next patch. The shaman will summon a totem that has an Endercrystal on it.

Mmk, your and your balancing numbers will have to work double time if that's going to happen.
Totem skills still need something to scale on, they currently go by level =P They also need numbers unless Kain feels the ones on Test are enough. Which I doubt.
In other news, coded a currently untested Mighty Totem that's not on test. It's Might. On a Totem. Yeah.
Also need a decision on any of those special item shenanigans above, too... Hm.

 

[LightningCape]

Mmk, your and your balancing numbers will have to work double time if that's going to happen.
Totem skills still need something to scale on, they currently go by level =P They also need numbers unless Kain feels the ones on Test are enough. Which I doubt.
In other news, coded a currently untested Mighty Totem that's not on test. It's Might. On a Totem. Yeah.
Also need a decision on any of those special item shenanigans above, too... Hm.

No scaling on duration or range (range of placing not totem range) is all I ask. Scaling on healing, totem range, dmg, and status duration are fine if that's what you mean.

 

[0xNaomi]

No scaling on duration or range (range of placing not totem range) is all I ask. Scaling on healing, totem range, dmg, and status duration are fine if that's what you mean.

The scaling is already in as per level, just need attribs to set to instead.
All totems: Duration/Range
Engulfing: None
Firestrike: Damage (not fire)
Force: Damage/Launch
Healing: Healing (go figure)
Might: None
Shock: Damage

 

[0xNaomi]

And then for non scaling stuff, we need:
All totems: None
Engulfing: Slowness level/duration
Firestrike: Fire ticks (technically velocity too, but it really just sets how fast it hits since it's homing)
Force: Nausea level/duration
Healing: None
Might: Damage % bonus/duration
Shock: None

 

[0xNaomi]

MightTotem is the new name for it for now. Apparently Kain thought Mighty was too silly.