New Class: Shaman

[0xNaomi]

The thing is, if you're supposed to use totems as additive power to your other skills and melee then how are you supposed to keep them in range of any of them?
At least absorption gives you powers that make that conceivable (absorbed force or engulfing) but without those, how are you supposed to keep anyone in check without an ally wizard spamming icebolt and root?

 

[malikdanab]

The thing is, if you're supposed to use totems as additive power to your other skills and melee then how are you supposed to keep them in range of any of them?
At least absorption gives you powers that make that conceivable (absorbed force or engulfing) but without those, how are you supposed to keep anyone in check without an ally wizard spamming icebolt and root?

It will be fine against rogues and warriors (Since they need to be in melee distance), but fighting magi and healers would be awkward.

 

[0xNaomi]

It will be fine against rogues and warriors (Since they need to be in melee distance), but fighting magi and healers would be awkward.

The thing is, depending on how long the cooldown/range is, they could very well just charge in between ticks.
All I see these Totems as with Master branch code is grenades. Toss one into a group of enemies so they scatter.

All they'd do otherwise is make people time their hits or stall time. At the distance people would remain, your melee skills would be rather useless at the range given. A ranger or mage could still cover that range with projectiles, still, as well.

I'd say the root problem here (eh heh heh, root) is the Totem being stationary. If you can just pick it up and go to their face and hit them when they make a stalemate, all is well.

If your melee power is too good without the Totems, though, why would you use them aside from a heal? (Though a Heal would allow them to come at you, since you only have one Totem.)

 

[malikdanab]

The thing is, depending on how long the cooldown/range is, they could very well just charge in between ticks.
All I see these Totems as with Master branch code is grenades. Toss one into a group of enemies so they scatter.

All they'd do otherwise is make people time their hits or stall time. At the distance people would remain, your melee skills would be rather useless at the range given. A ranger or mage could still cover that range with projectiles, still, as well.

I'd say the root problem here (eh heh heh, root) is the Totem being stationary. If you can just pick it up and go to their face and hit them when they make a stalemate, all is well.

If your melee power is too good without the Totems, though, why would you use them aside from a heal? (Though a Heal would allow them to come at you, since you only have one Totem.)

Maybe the counter some of problem, is to make the tick rates faster (Balance the damage accordingly). I guess we need to think of totems like turrets. Very powerful, but have problems with mobility (AKA they have none).

 

[0xNaomi]

Maybe the counter some of problem, is to make the tick rates faster (Balance the damage accordingly). I guess we need to think of totems like turrets. Very powerful, but have problems with mobility (AKA they have none).

But it's not even problems, it's completely immobile. Every class has some to insane movement power. Even if totems are faster, it leads to the dame strategy: Press your bind and hope for that one cheap shot.

 

[malikdanab]

But it's not even problems, it's completely immobile. Every class has some to insane movement power. Even if totems are faster, it leads to the dame strategy: Press your bind and hope for that one cheap shot.

So how do we fix this...

 

[0xNaomi]

So how do we fix this...

I'd say that the ideas you're giving are barking the wrong tree.
Yes, Kain said no to absorption, but why?
- He doesn't want totems being summoned just to remove them
- It sounds like Runeblade

So how do we make a set of companion skills that don't fit those conditions?
I felt totems were fine as long as we had something to partner with (albeit another totem was OP), so I'd say to find another idea that he can like that gives partner skills to totems.
Something where one is an additive the other, so you can still use totems as they are if you so choose, use the other skillset to cover melee, or combine both fit some high skill-ceiling useful ability. (In terms of overall combat, not literally another power by having both out.)

I was just making the point of totems' weaknesses clear so that this makes its point more obvious.

 

[malikdanab]

Running away...The ULTIMATE counter to shaman!

So do we make shaman a melee-oriented class with short range spells (Think pyro)?
A traditional mage that so happens to have totems?

Either way, I see range classes being a problem. Should we leave it like that and balance accordingly or should we try to make a system that makes shaman better in long range combat?

 

[0xNaomi]

Running away...The ULTIMATE counter to shaman!

So do we make shaman a melee-oriented class with short range spells (Think pyro)?
A traditional mage that so happens to have totems?

Either way, I see range classes being a problem. Should we leave it like that and balance accordingly or should we try to make a system that makes shaman better in long range combat?

Ranged having an advantage is fine, my issue is just being *at* range giving more of an advantage than you get from any other melee class.
I want some sort of themed accompanying melee, I think under that we can get something that satisfies the Kain.
Obviously the totems will planning to use effectively, I just want its other skills for melee to at least feel similar.
Just normal melee skills feels like you're running two different classes worth of skillsets.

 

[Sirdemonic3]

i want a cast on death skills

 

[0xNaomi]

i want a cast on death skills

...what?

 

[0xNaomi]

So, just writing this back at square 1 for a sec so @malikdanab can read up on this. He needs words rather than speaking.
[] Indicates stuff me and malik are trying to plan. The rest is modified from the thread OP for current logic.

Shaman (axe) Archetype - Healer
The class is supposed to be semi-hybrid, representing Primal abilities in destruction, majoring in totem (physical blocks with endercrystals that pulse and cannot be broken), minoring in healing and melee. [I think healing will remain quite minor, but melee might be boosted as an accompaniment to Totems if me and malik can get something Kain likes) The user can ONLY have out one totem at a time, . The effective range of the totems will vary based on a few things. Totems can be placed within 20 blocks of the player at line of sight, on the ground. Totems will have an AOE / effect range varying on the totem.

Skill Lineup:
-Kick - You know what it is, not sure if it really fits now?
-Totems
-Firestrike - 4 fireballs shot, likely 2-3 will hit. Homing, can be blocked by walls and EarthWall
-Shock - Megabolt with the AOE being around the totem. If you're in range when it hits, you're hit once.
-Force - Launches into the air and disorients, no damage
-Engulfing - Slows, no damage
-Healing - Heals allies in range
-Chloroblast - Healing skill, still in the plans to my knowledge
[-Set of accompanying melee skills - Something that fits the theme of the Totems but can be approved of by Kain. Trying to sort out with Malik]
[-Another healing skill - Not sure what but something basic.]
[- Some utility skill - Not sure what but helps keep a skill roster together]
-ChainLightning - Hasn't been coded to my knowledge, is this still going to be a thing? [I'd suggest not to allow the melee, I feel melee and this would be OP]

 

[malikdanab]

So what I was thinking, is have a system similar to the old ranger skills where the shaman infuses their axe with power. It would cost mana on use and every time you attack. You can only "infuse" one "power" at a time. Examples:

Fire: Applies fire tick
Engulfing: Applies slow
Healing: Heals allies when you hit them
Shock: Pure damage
Force: Knockback



That leaves shaman with 13 skills. I think a total of 17 skills would be nice by adding 1 more heals, a 2 support spell, and one more damage skill. You may think this too many skills, but with this system you could only have 1 "Infused" skill at a time and 1 totem at a time. This would leave shaman with only 7 "Active" skills.

 

[Kainzo]

The shaman is part of the healer path. It will not be strong in melee like a runeblade/ninja nor will they be high in magical damage, like a wizard/necro.

We need to focus on the supportive role with totems as a secondary means of assistance (may it be distracting/damage/healing).

We do not want a complicated weapon system for the shaman, however we can focus on different style heals and controlling / slow style spells.


I'm okay with the shaman having the ability to reclaim mana/etc from totems but I dont have time to discuss this indepth (At the cabin)

 

[LightningCape]

So what I was thinking, is have a system similar to the old ranger skills where the shaman infuses their axe with power. It would cost mana on use and every time you attack. You can only "Power" one element at a time. Examples:

Fire: Applies fire tick
Engulfing: Applies slow
Healing: Heals allies when you hit them
Shock: Pure damage
Force: Knockback



That leaves shaman with 13 skills. I think a total of 17 skills would be nice by adding 1 more heals, a 2 support spell, and one more damage skill. You may think this too many skills, but with this system you could only have 1 "Infused" skill at a time and 1 totem at a time. This would leave shaman with only 7 "Active" skills.

Shaman as a healer shouldn't need a lot of active skills. Especially given how useful totems will be. Same boat as bard.

Also
Distracting?
How about a smoke totem? Has the affect of blizzard but does no dmg. Just a though

 

[0xNaomi]

The shaman is part of the healer path. It will not be strong in melee like a runeblade/ninja nor will they be high in magical damage, like a wizard/necro.

We need to focus on the supportive role with totems as a secondary means of assistance (may it be distracting/damage/healing).

We do not want a complicated weapon system for the shaman, however we can focus on different style heals and controlling / slow style spells.


I'm okay with the shaman having the ability to reclaim mana/etc from totems but I dont have time to discuss this indepth (At the cabin)

Secondary? Secondary? Up until now everything said "Major in Totems, minor in healing/melee", inclluding your OP to the this thread.
If Totems are supposed to be secondary, then what is primary? Melee? Apparently not. Magic? Apparently not. You can't *heal* things to death, and even if you could that'd be Cleric's job.

I'm getting so many mixed signals from this, I can't even tell what you want any more.

Shaman as a healer shouldn't need a lot of active skills. Especially given how useful totems will be. Same boat as bard.

Also
Distracting?
How about a smoke totem? Has the affect of blizzard but does no dmg. Just a though

Bard at least has its support centered around this. All anyone has to do to counter a totem is move the fight away from it, especially if they have ranged skills.

 

[malikdanab]

If that is so then I guess chain lightning is being scrapped?

 

[0xNaomi]

Continuing:
ChainLightning was in the original plan. That sounds quite a lot like magic damage.
Malik's on hit effects, were the same effects as Totems just transmitted over melee to account for Totems' weaknesses and the definition of "minor in melee". Only two of them apply extra damage, the rest *are* support.

It was never stated that they would have high magic power in any of their effects, Totems would likely be the most potent.
Their melee without any powers would be on the low side naturally, as it is with any caster and most other healers.

 

[LightningCape]

For the sake of balancing everything else with Shaman we really need to just ignore the fact totems cant move. It really cant be helped. We can just use the old system where using a totem will auto cancel the old one out then increase the range the shaman can place the totem to deal with runners and if not it really doesn't matter. If you're a shaman if they're running let others in your party with gap closers follow.

If you're fighting and use a totem, when the other person can move from it you move towards it. People running from you doesn't mean you're close it broken. Ex: Pyro, DK, Cleric

/rant

Shaman doesn't need and cant have high melee and magic dmg. If it's to get more skills they should be:

• Support
  • debuffs
• Heals
  • Minor heals. Should be weak, and low CD
• CC
  • Maybe a KB skill of some kind, no AoE though

My 2 cents

 

[Sirdemonic3]

my last post was derp, i just wanted to make sure i was still getting updates on the thread so i didnt miss anything