I don't agree with that argument in anyway nor do I think its completely relevant but whatever works for you. Here's a classic question for you wolever. Can you prove god exists?
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Bible/come to Jesus
- Thread starter Bob_de_Blastoise
- Start date
dragonzero39
Legacy Supporter 7
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- Aug 16, 2011
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- North America
bob_de_blastoise I love this thread, I'm glad to see ya spreading the word. Keep on my friend! God Bless ya.
WoleverEntun
Legacy Supporter 3
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- Apr 6, 2011
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- Korea
God works in mysterious ways.
Thats the sum of my argument.
Thats the sum of my argument.
WoleverEntun
Legacy Supporter 3
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- Apr 6, 2011
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- Korea
Christianity is a matter of faith,.whether you have it or not. The point of my post above was not to arrogantly think myself right,.merely to point out that we can never really know. Thanks for the immediate negative reaction.
MrFly007
Portal
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2011
It is not whether you can prove he is real or fake. It is what you truly believe happens and I am proud to announce I am Christian. I love God with all my heart and praying and going to church is something I enjoy doing to let my thoughts off the reins. If you choose to not believe and have a different output that is not a bad thing, people have to lovely choice of freewill.
You can never really know? Well with that logic theres a strong possiblity Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Spiderman exist. There's just as much evidence. Your argument is ridiculous.
Oh and just to have it on record that I've said this.. I'm not only strongly against Christianity. Religion in general bothers me. It's been the cause of a good majority of histories wars and just causes nothing but conflict.
Faunherer
Legacy Supporter 4
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- Jun 24, 2011
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- Winterfell
That's arrogant human nature that causes conflict. Most, if not all religions denounce violence, no 'Holy war' has ever been holy.
The bible is crazy. Like God tells the Jews to go and attack innocent people. Wtf if god created them why would he want them killed? I thought Jesus loved everyone
:<
WoleverEntun
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- Apr 6, 2011
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- Korea
If anything religion can be an effective restraint on humans violent nature. Ever heard of people getting along, "like good christians"? The problems arise from misinterpretations or deliberate perversions of the true message of religions.
dragonzero39
Legacy Supporter 7
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2011
- Location
- North America
Johnbaur, to try and answer your questions, God did get mad at humanity more than once. He cleared the earth of almost all humanity during the flooding of the earth, he also had an angel of death wipe out the Sodomites. His wrath is as strong as his love. It's a hard thing to wrap your mind around.
Side Note: I will be trying to create a Christian chat in game where people can share their favorite bible verses, get advice, or just come listen to some of the word.
Side Note: I will be trying to create a Christian chat in game where people can share their favorite bible verses, get advice, or just come listen to some of the word.
Can you honestly say there wouldn't have been less wars throughout history if it weren't for religion? You also did not acknowledge the other half of my post.
Dreamcycler
Legacy Supporter 5
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2012
I believe you are right. Religion has caused too many conflicts in history. I'm not very educated in Religion or alot of History so I cant very well prove my point in any such way.
I find it hard to love such a vengeful god.I mean absolutely no offense to anything or one, but it always seems when I hear of Heaven and hell, it tells me "Love me and go to heaven,Anything else and you can burn eternally in Hell."
PS. Sorry for such bad type and trying to make my point
Fjordsen
Legacy Supporter 6
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2011
God summed up: Love me or go to hell with neverlasting pain trough torture.
Doesn't it seem nothing but cruel that all the firstborn in the most populated place in the ancient times got killed by God's angel? I mean, if he is God, surely he could've freed the jews in a peaceful way instead?
Doesn't it seem nothing but cruel that all the firstborn in the most populated place in the ancient times got killed by God's angel? I mean, if he is God, surely he could've freed the jews in a peaceful way instead?
Ostadar
Legacy Supporter 7
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2012
I'm responding only to the statements related to burning and torture in hell for all eternity. The bible never states that as a punishment for people who do not believe in God or commit a Sin. Those are only punishments for Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet. This depends though on the denominations you talk to but all of them still use the three same core books, just different interpretations. For example, coming from a close relation of mine -- someone I know believes Hell to be just an existence to be separated from God after being made aware of the connection you had, to suffer the knowledge of what you lost and what you could have had, otherwise it would be much like your life currently. There is also the concept of Eternal Destruction which is brought up in the Bible which is not Hell, but instead your soul is destroyed utterly, you just do not exist anymore even after death.
Another thing to state about the punishment for Sin and to not believe in God is that the Bible does not state that punishment will be eternal, it just states that there will be punishment.
P.S. As for the finding anything God does cruel? God never said he was not cruel. He is still the creator in Christian faith though and he Good and therefore all of his decisions are Good. Whether Humans, who were given free will by God, decide otherwise. That is because we are still a creation of God and should both Love and Respect him for this. For without him we would not Exist.
I'm don't even belong to any of the religions that use the Bible. I just don't like the common misconceptions/horrible interpretations that even believers of the Bible have.
P.P.S. This is all I'm saying unless something else frustrates me later.
Last edited:
leftovers5
Legacy Supporter 8
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- Oct 28, 2011
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- USA
In my opinion, religion was a necessary element in history and continues to be to this day. Whether you like it or not, even the United States of America was founded with heavily Christian undertones. Religion is a driving force and a motivation for actions, and it allows new events to unfold.
Fjordsen
Legacy Supporter 6
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2011
Example to back up your argument:
Johannes Gutenberg made the first printing press that was supposed to spread the bible to common people. This also split christianity up even more as people now didn't have to listen a priest's opinion on the bible, but read it themselves.
WoleverEntun
Legacy Supporter 3
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- Apr 6, 2011
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- Korea
These wars arose from misinterpretations and perversions of religions largely. In many cases in Europe wars were started for political reasons, then justified by religion.
Thou shalt not kill, if followed, would result in no war. The other part of your post was not worth responding to, and if I do respond to it it will be later when I have more time to type.
None of the "holy" wars has ever been directly caused by religion (as far as I know), but by the desire to knock out the teeth of different people (witch we still can see all over the western world).
Modern religion was made in a time when people didn't have computers, internet, books, wikipedia or anything stuffed with information. People needed an explanation to why stuff was like it was, and someone (more or less willingly) exploited that, and made themselves "leaders". That's one of the reasons the church was so powerful in Europe.
To compare it with something really simple:
Back in history people where I live, believed that there existed a creature called "Huldra", witch lived in lakes, or rivers and such.
The "Huldra" was a pretty lady with cow tale who "called" on men who passed. and when the men got there they drowned.
This was the explanation of why people drowned. I'm sure it made much sense back then, but today that's children stories.
It's the same with religion, they could basically say whatever they wanted to explain everything (life, earth and so on..). Science has several times prooven religions wrong on several aspects, and the religion has moderated itself as people started to change believes.
(I do not want to bash anyones believe, believe what you want and be happy).
HelsEch
ICE ICE ICE!
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2011
Oh boy, nearly 20 pages of Religious banter. I can only pray my input will be simple, but nearly 100 posts of conversation to go through and voice my own thoughts on could make it difficult.
Let me first off say there is evidence to the existence of a man named Iesvs from a place outlying Rome's western border named Galilee. There are historical confirmations of his baptism as a Jew and his crucifixion under the order of the governor residing over the area. Historians pretty much agree unanimously that a man of that name with a few key moments that can be connected to the New Testament did exist. The only thing left to question was his divinity and the full fidelity of the Bible's accounts of Iesvs Nazarethi.
As for the "Life is evidence of God" debate, let me put in my knowledge on this. As far as the complexity of organic compounds such as the amino acids referred to and how the ability for the current earth to produce them is nearly impossible, that only goes for the current Earth. Many scientists have reproduced early earth conditions when the atmosphere contained far less oxygen and a larger variety of other particles as well as the energy to fuel chemical reactions and found even the most complex organic compounds to form under those conditions. This leads us to connect the dots, early bacteria that can survive the harshest conditions that reside in places we thought impossible to contain life which means they could survive the early earth, these cells evolving and coming together to form plant life. Plants help to alter the atmospheric condition of earth which allows for protozoans, the other branch-off from bacteria, to evolve more boldly and eventually become animal life. I honestly can't say I think intervention was necessary considering there are more planets in the universe than we can probably comprehend, that kind of makes up for the 1 in 10 trillion chance or whatever they want to call it these days of a planet getting the proper events to occur at the right times. This also explains why we don't see new organisms popping up out of nowhere, because it's been a good billion years or so since the earth could produce organic compounds.
As for what the bible can do for me and what God can do for me, I think I'd rather use my faith in humanity and our ability to find answers, be them wrong, right, moral, or immoral. What I can get out of what is admittedly one of the largest literary works in human history I can get out of plenty other sources of literature and media or even through life situations and my elders who have likely gone through them already. Even if humans don't always do the right thing and can even be downright cruel to each other, I fully believe I could say the same about the God described in the Bible. No matter how you sugarcoat it, God did horrible things to people in his own canon regardless of his intentions.
I remember a discussion in here about how Science changes over time as we learn more about general relativity and special relativity and how they effect physics on our level. The same actually goes for the Bible. Over time the lessons taken from the bible change, whether it be the morality of slavery(Started moral and became immoral), incest(was abused by the Pope to keep King Henry VIII from divorcing his wife, who was technically his legal sister), and so on. A work as large, diverse, and used as the Bible cannot be exempt from being malleable in the metaphorical sense.
I'll stop here to say that, despite my beliefs and life views, I don't necessarily think the Bible is altogether a bad thing. I do think that it is by no means perfect and by no means do I use it as a life guide. I don't think I need an afterlife or any grandeur because my legacy will continue through my children. It almost makes me feel as if all this worry about one's soul and the afterlife are imagined worries by comparison, but that might be my inner Papageno speaking. Well, I feel a lot better now after saying all that. Please continue after the text wall.
Let me first off say there is evidence to the existence of a man named Iesvs from a place outlying Rome's western border named Galilee. There are historical confirmations of his baptism as a Jew and his crucifixion under the order of the governor residing over the area. Historians pretty much agree unanimously that a man of that name with a few key moments that can be connected to the New Testament did exist. The only thing left to question was his divinity and the full fidelity of the Bible's accounts of Iesvs Nazarethi.
As for the "Life is evidence of God" debate, let me put in my knowledge on this. As far as the complexity of organic compounds such as the amino acids referred to and how the ability for the current earth to produce them is nearly impossible, that only goes for the current Earth. Many scientists have reproduced early earth conditions when the atmosphere contained far less oxygen and a larger variety of other particles as well as the energy to fuel chemical reactions and found even the most complex organic compounds to form under those conditions. This leads us to connect the dots, early bacteria that can survive the harshest conditions that reside in places we thought impossible to contain life which means they could survive the early earth, these cells evolving and coming together to form plant life. Plants help to alter the atmospheric condition of earth which allows for protozoans, the other branch-off from bacteria, to evolve more boldly and eventually become animal life. I honestly can't say I think intervention was necessary considering there are more planets in the universe than we can probably comprehend, that kind of makes up for the 1 in 10 trillion chance or whatever they want to call it these days of a planet getting the proper events to occur at the right times. This also explains why we don't see new organisms popping up out of nowhere, because it's been a good billion years or so since the earth could produce organic compounds.
As for what the bible can do for me and what God can do for me, I think I'd rather use my faith in humanity and our ability to find answers, be them wrong, right, moral, or immoral. What I can get out of what is admittedly one of the largest literary works in human history I can get out of plenty other sources of literature and media or even through life situations and my elders who have likely gone through them already. Even if humans don't always do the right thing and can even be downright cruel to each other, I fully believe I could say the same about the God described in the Bible. No matter how you sugarcoat it, God did horrible things to people in his own canon regardless of his intentions.
I remember a discussion in here about how Science changes over time as we learn more about general relativity and special relativity and how they effect physics on our level. The same actually goes for the Bible. Over time the lessons taken from the bible change, whether it be the morality of slavery(Started moral and became immoral), incest(was abused by the Pope to keep King Henry VIII from divorcing his wife, who was technically his legal sister), and so on. A work as large, diverse, and used as the Bible cannot be exempt from being malleable in the metaphorical sense.
I'll stop here to say that, despite my beliefs and life views, I don't necessarily think the Bible is altogether a bad thing. I do think that it is by no means perfect and by no means do I use it as a life guide. I don't think I need an afterlife or any grandeur because my legacy will continue through my children. It almost makes me feel as if all this worry about one's soul and the afterlife are imagined worries by comparison, but that might be my inner Papageno speaking. Well, I feel a lot better now after saying all that. Please continue after the text wall.
vallad_centrius
Legacy Supporter 2
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2012
- Location
- Philippines
Hmm.. i dont know hot to prove God is real to you guys.. but i looked up some of my old notes in school..
and there might be really an outside intelligence that formed the earth which we call a god..
1st of all our body is mostly made up of water and proteins..
i forgot the names of the scientist.. but a long time ago.. (i forgot the date too.. my notebook was really old, i think it was earlier than 1900) 2 scientists did an experiment so that they may have an idea how humans was created..
the 1st thing they thinked of was the human body is mostly made up of water and proteins.. they used the big bang theory as they're basis, this is the puzzling question they came up with..
For a human body to be created, it needs proteins and water.. so how did proteins form after the huge condensed explosion?..
..
they then tried to do an experiment..,
with the use of heat and electricity to make the atmosphere inside a huge potion-like bottle (i didnt know what it was) similar to a big bang
i did not write down the process on how they did it (yes i was a bad copier) , but they managed to create a protein, just 1 tiny bit.. but it died from the heat..
they repeated the process again and again.. until they came up with a more stable one that did not die..
Yes they managed to prove that proteins can be formed in a big bang.. but a human body requires a million proteins.. or even more.. and a single protein would just die on some time if it was left alone in the heat
the 2 scientists went to a conclusion that making this happen is near impossible..
forming a human body during a big bang is very near possible they added..
there was about 0.0 x 10^-(forgot what was the exponent >.>) that a human body made from stable proteins could be made
at the end they did not prove creation.. the formula they proposed was
Chance + Time = Life
.. but it was later contradicted by a scientist (again i forgot the names)
and gave his own opinion..
"A Plane is made up of Non-Flying parts, but yet it is able to fly,
why? because it was perfectly arranged to make it fly by an intelligent creature which is man"
so
"Man is made up of different substances, Substances that cant see/hear/talk/walk/work/grow. but yet man was able to see/hear/talk/walk/work/grow, why? because it was perfectly arranged to make it see/hear/talk/walk/work/grow by an intelligent creature which is god?"
Meaning
Chance + Time + OI (Outside Intelligence) = Life?
----
P.S: Man my notes are rusty.. those are what i came up from my old notebooks.. took me awhile to summarize them up, sorry for wrong grammars and spelling =P
P.P.S: im proud to be a follower
and there might be really an outside intelligence that formed the earth which we call a god..
1st of all our body is mostly made up of water and proteins..
i forgot the names of the scientist.. but a long time ago.. (i forgot the date too.. my notebook was really old, i think it was earlier than 1900) 2 scientists did an experiment so that they may have an idea how humans was created..
the 1st thing they thinked of was the human body is mostly made up of water and proteins.. they used the big bang theory as they're basis, this is the puzzling question they came up with..
For a human body to be created, it needs proteins and water.. so how did proteins form after the huge condensed explosion?..
..
they then tried to do an experiment..,
with the use of heat and electricity to make the atmosphere inside a huge potion-like bottle (i didnt know what it was) similar to a big bang
i did not write down the process on how they did it (yes i was a bad copier) , but they managed to create a protein, just 1 tiny bit.. but it died from the heat..
they repeated the process again and again.. until they came up with a more stable one that did not die..
Yes they managed to prove that proteins can be formed in a big bang.. but a human body requires a million proteins.. or even more.. and a single protein would just die on some time if it was left alone in the heat
the 2 scientists went to a conclusion that making this happen is near impossible..
forming a human body during a big bang is very near possible they added..
there was about 0.0 x 10^-(forgot what was the exponent >.>) that a human body made from stable proteins could be made
at the end they did not prove creation.. the formula they proposed was
Chance + Time = Life
.. but it was later contradicted by a scientist (again i forgot the names)
and gave his own opinion..
"A Plane is made up of Non-Flying parts, but yet it is able to fly,
why? because it was perfectly arranged to make it fly by an intelligent creature which is man"
so
"Man is made up of different substances, Substances that cant see/hear/talk/walk/work/grow. but yet man was able to see/hear/talk/walk/work/grow, why? because it was perfectly arranged to make it see/hear/talk/walk/work/grow by an intelligent creature which is god?"
Meaning
Chance + Time + OI (Outside Intelligence) = Life?
----
P.S: Man my notes are rusty.. those are what i came up from my old notebooks.. took me awhile to summarize them up, sorry for wrong grammars and spelling =P
P.P.S: im proud to be a follower