September Notes (8.0.0)

[Junarcel]

Note, atm ALL the coins for the town spawn port go to the town (well, they did yesterday) and as a consequence help the town with paying its daily taxes.

I know its @Kainzo's intent that part go to the server.

I'm just saying that town port fees contribute significantly at this stage to enabling towns to pay their daily taxes.

These port fees are effectively an activity tax on members, and for that reason I think they are a fine thing.

Sweet! Then Ill just suck out my money right after

 

[0xNaomi]

Sweet! Then Ill just suck out my money right after

This right here is why the amount returned to bank cannot equal the cost. Otherwise it's free for anyone with bank withdrawal perms which is just silly.

 

[Kainzo]

8.0.8
- Hardware upgrades, we now run 3 physical machines. One for each play-style (Adventure | Minigames | Creative are incoming)
- Moved the proxy service to its own dedicated machine for better optimization.
- Changed up some of the innards of the proxy.
- Ground-work for our Hero Armory site > http://hc.to/leaderboards (@lordachoo thx!)
- Leveling experience changes are being laid out on Test server, these will be available around Friday before the Staff Meeting.
- Highlighted Staff colors on Forums to stand out more so readers don't miss important details.
- Optimized the backup system so we take weekly backups and daily rsync-overwrites during non-prime time.
- Adjusted hc.to/exp boost packages. The tiers are now 50% / 75% / 100% cluster packages are 150% and 200%.
-- Buyers will get an additional passive exp gain for each purchase that lasts for the duration of the purchase.

 

[Kainzo]

- Party EXP is now shared differently. The level ranges between members will decide the amount granted on exp gains. (The higher the level the more exp you take if grouping with lower levels)

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

- Party EXP is now shared differently. The level ranges between members will decide the amount granted on exp gains. (The higher the level the more exp you take if grouping with lower levels)

I'd like to understand some more about this, please Kainzo.

One way of understanding what you've said is that higher levels leach exp from lower levels.

I'm thinking that's not your intent...

Thing is, exp sharing in parties has always been poorly understood, with some players avoiding parties because they have understood partying up to mean getting less individual exp - they have been missing the point that being in a party means the individual gets more exp, in fact.

So yeah, I'd appreciate more detail so that I can try explaining it for players in the wiki, please.

 

[Kainzo]

Most games, most MMO's function like this (although 90% of them are MUCH more harsh).
Party Member A is level 59, Party Member B is level 10.
The party kills a tier 5 mob and is awarded 100 xp.
Party Member B (10) because they were so far in level-range from Party Member A (59) get no exp and the level 59 gets 500 xp.


In Herocraft before, it was a straight split of 50 / 50 so both would get 50 XP out of the 100 PLUS a passive bonus of 15-25% because they are were in a party (so 75 / 75)

Now, after this patch, party members are now getting exp based on the levels they are against others in the party.
So a level 50, level 10 getting 100xp will have the level 50 get 87xp, the 10 get 13xp. It's based against how much effectiveness you are, max level being 100% effective.

Here's the formula that is was copied from

Base experience per monster for players is the same as if they were playing solo, meaning a monster with 1000 base experience in solo play will have a base experience of 6000 in a party of 6, but the final amount received depends on player's level relative to party members and monsters

The usual experience penalty that can come from monster level applies, but experience is also redistributed to higher level characters. This is intended to balance the high experience requirements at higher levels. Monsters experience is awarded only to nearby (roughly two screens) party members

Each player's "share" of the experience gained is (CharacterLevel+10)^2.71. divided by the total of all players' shares.

For example, if a level 10 player was partied with a level 30 player:

• Level 10 player's share: (10+10)^2.71 = 3355
• Level 30 player's share: (30+10)^2.71 = 21957
• Total "Shares": 3356 + 21957 = 25313

Percentual Share of experience:

• Level 10 player would receive: 3355/25313 = 0.132 = 13.2% of the XP
• Level 30 player would receive: 21957/25313 = 0.867 = 86.7% of the XP

 

[LordZelkova]

Most games, most MMO's function like this (although 90% of them are MUCH more harsh).
Party Member A is level 59, Party Member B is level 10.
The party kills a tier 5 mob and is awarded 100 xp.
Party Member B (10) because they were so far in level-range from Party Member A (59) get no exp and the level 59 gets 500 xp.


In Herocraft before, it was a straight split of 50 / 50 so both would get 50 XP out of the 100 PLUS a passive bonus of 15-25% because they are were in a party (so 75 / 75)

Now, after this patch, party members are now getting exp based on the levels they are against others in the party.
So a level 50, level 10 getting 100xp will have the level 50 get 87xp, the 10 get 13xp. It's based against how much effectiveness you are, max level being 100% effective.

Here's the formula that is was copied from

Thing is, it was very common to get higher level player than you to help grind out the levels. Especially later on in the map when people are mastered and someone changes. This discourages higher level players from helping out low ones, as if they grind with them they'll steal all the xp.

 

[peterpunx]

Thing is, it was very common to get higher level player than you to help grind out the levels. Especially later on in the map when people are mastered and someone changes. This discourages higher level players from helping out low ones, as if they grind with them they'll steal all the xp.

The perfect solution would be a half way between both systems.
A % of the exp fix for every party member, and a % depending on the lvl you are compared to the rest of the party


xp_gained = (mob_xp / nº_members) * ( x% + (1-x%) * (your_lvl * nº_members / party_lvls)

whatever the x you consider fair. and maybe adding an extra % to the mob_xp to encourage players to lvl up together

with the x=50, a lvl 30 and a lvl 10 lvling together, killing a 100xp mob would get
lvl 30: 62,5
lvl 10: 37,5

 

[LarryDeCable]

The perfect solution would be a half way between both systems.
A % of the exp fix for every party member, and a % depending on the lvl you are compared to the rest of the party

Either that or make this toggle able

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

Most games, most MMO's function like this (although 90% of them are MUCH more harsh).
Party Member A is level 59, Party Member B is level 10.
The party kills a tier 5 mob and is awarded 100 xp.
Party Member B (10) because they were so far in level-range from Party Member A (59) get no exp and the level 59 gets 500 xp.


In Herocraft before, it was a straight split of 50 / 50 so both would get 50 XP out of the 100 PLUS a passive bonus of 15-25% because they are were in a party (so 75 / 75)

Now, after this patch, party members are now getting exp based on the levels they are against others in the party.
So a level 50, level 10 getting 100xp will have the level 50 get 87xp, the 10 get 13xp. It's based against how much effectiveness you are, max level being 100% effective.

Here's the formula that is was copied from

If it's being based on effectiveness, why not make whoever gets the kill get more experience? The more you contribute to the team the more you get out of it. Another thing that I think would be cool is to make it where a lvl 60 could make it where he/she gets no experience and the experience of his/her kills are split among the rest of the part instead of being an experience sink. Might even create a small economy for buying and selling leveling help

 

[Irishman81]

If it's being based on effectiveness, why not make whoever gets the kill get more experience? The more you contribute to the team the more you get out of it. Another thing that I think would be cool is to make it where a lvl 60 could make it where he/she gets no experience and the experience of his/her kills are split among the rest of the part instead of being an experience sink. Might even create a small economy for buying and selling leveling help

Healers and non damaged based classes would struggle a lot if that would be the case. Classes like wizard would level really quickly.

 

[RegularHumanMode]

I know this is an outlandish suggestion and all, but what if, and I am only suggesting it, you level up with someone your own level? That way you share EXP pretty evenly and the game becomes somewhat of a challenge without a higher level carrying you through dungeons.

 

[Cowcium]

/town spawn should just be disabled, that's what marking and recalling are for. People are just getting lazy now and walking less which means less interaction outside of towns. Needs to be more hardcore, if you walk across the map you better have redstone to recall or else your out of luck and have to walk back to town which means increased player interaction on the walk back.

/town spawn is a money sink; to be honest the only problem with it is its use in combat; otherwise it's pretty alright.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

Now, after this patch, party members are now getting exp based on the levels they are against others in the party.
So a level 50, level 10 getting 100xp will have the level 50 get 87xp, the 10 get 13xp. It's based against how much effectiveness you are, max level being 100% effective.

Here's the formula that is was copied from

Base experience per monster for players is the same as if they were playing solo, meaning a monster with 1000 base experience in solo play will have a base experience of 6000 in a party of 6, but the final amount received depends on player's level relative to party members and monsters

The usual experience penalty that can come from monster level applies, but experience is also redistributed to higher level characters. This is intended to balance the high experience requirements at higher levels. Monsters experience is awarded only to nearby (roughly two screens) party members

Each player's "share" of the experience gained is (CharacterLevel+10)^2.71. divided by the total of all players' shares.

For example, if a level 10 player was partied with a level 30 player:

• Level 10 player's share: (10+10)^2.71 = 3355
• Level 30 player's share: (30+10)^2.71 = 21957
• Total "Shares": 3356 + 21957 = 25313

Percentual Share of experience:

• Level 10 player would receive: 3355/25313 = 0.132 = 13.2% of the XP
• Level 30 player would receive: 21957/25313 = 0.867 = 86.7% of the XP

For player satisfaction at HC, I reckon we need to be encouraging party play, not discouraging it.

As I read it, if a level 10 and a level 60 are leveling together in a party, the 60 will get 97% of the exp and the 10 will get 3%. That sounds pretty severe. It sounds off-putting for low level players and will break up the fun of leveling together as a town, or with friends.

Will this in fact accelerate leveling at higher levels, while increasing the grind at lower levels?

Will a passive party bonus still be applied? This hasn't been addressed in the formula presented here.

Also, I take what you say about other MMOs, but does HC have the server population to support this mechanism of dividing players into leveling tiers?

 

[LordZelkova]

I know this is an outlandish suggestion and all, but what if, and I am only suggesting it, you level up with someone your own level? That way you share EXP pretty evenly and the game becomes somewhat of a challenge without a higher level carrying you through dungeons.

That's all fine and dandy for new players or people who have been playing together. But for towns or people with less time, it discourages Lower Level players from seeking help form Higher ones. .2 less seconds per mob isn't enough time to warrant only getting 3% xp.

 

[peterpunx]

have been looking at the new xp share... this only makes sence for MMOs where the low lvl has no chance to survive a high lvl mob, with the mob lvl scaling as well as the player, but in herocraft, the only difference between a lvl 50 and a lvl 10 is the amount of time it takes to kill the mob, and it isnt that huge of a difference...

 

[Kainzo]

have been looking at the new xp share... this only makes sence for MMOs where the low lvl has no chance to survive a high lvl mob, with the mob lvl scaling as well as the player, but in herocraft, the only difference between a lvl 50 and a lvl 10 is the amount of time it takes to kill the mob, and it isnt that huge of a difference...

New leveling experience.

The tiered mob system will make it so the level 10 has no business being in a level 50 dungeon.

edit: We will, however, continue to adjust the formula based on what we feel is the proper reward for level differences. The goal is to make sure players dont bypass content quickly because they have high level friends. They will still "gain" exp by grouping, which is already a step above most games with party-systems.

My statement is: wait until you see the new dungeons and then judge / give feedback on it. Herocraft's always in a state of change

 

[Watermelon_01]

Healers and non damaged based classes would struggle a lot if that would be the case. Classes like wizard would level really quickly.

Could also be based on contribution to the other players. This could be managed by being in combat and standing near the party.

 

[look_out]

Leveling will takes roughly the same amount of time for every level rather than the first 30 being faster than the last 30. Making it less of a grind the higher level you are.

 

[Kainzo]

Leveling will takes roughly the same amount of time for every level rather than the first 30 being faster than the last 30. Making it less of a grind the higher level you are.

We're extending the leveling system. While we don't want to make it feel like a grind, if you choose to stay in a Tier 1 dungeon, it will take months to get to max. We're going to make players go to harder areas to gain experience.

The goal to master 1 class is ONE WEEK with absolutely no boosts.
TWO weeks for a T2 class with absolutely no boosts.

This is for various reasons. We want players to bum rush level 1 > 40ish and then have to focus, get better at the class, and so forth to advance past this.

This is a massive change for Herocraft, one I know won't go over super smoothly, but I profess that it is better than sitting in a single dungeon grinding the same spawner for 8+ hours to become viable in PVP or Herocraft.