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Suggestion Looting from spawn plot considered legal - Really?!

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Dsawemd

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Mayors can kick people with Malicious Intent and still not get in trouble.
It is their town. If they want a person out, it isn't Malicious Intent, it is what is best for the town.edit: Exception - Robber Baron Mayors like Alexhoff1, but that is an extreme case that has to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

If we stop mayors from kicking derps, we will have a lot of inactive Mayors who cannot stand to log in because they have drama with their town.
 

RagingDragon5

Portal
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
It is their town. If they want a person out, it isn't Malicious Intent, it is what is best for the town.

If we stop mayors from kicking derps, we will have a lot of inactive Mayors who cannot stand to log in because they have drama with their town.

I said Malicious Intent. Kicking people who causes disruptions is not malicious intent.
 

RagingDragon5

Portal
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
You MUST actually believe this, you're so professional and nice all the time.

It's a game, and as long as you recognize it as such, your brain will provide you with a very different set of incentives and logic paths than real life.

Nothing about stealing in a game makes you untrustworthy in real life, it just makes you a "Self Motivated Video Game Player" and we are all that<, because playing video games is one of the most selfish activities since masturbating.

2. Towns are considered a staple of the Group playstyle on Herocraft, and as such we need rules that foster trust within a town.

You basically said it yourself.

Just because they own the town doesn't mean they should be allowed to kick someone with the sole purpose just to take their stuff. Mayors should have the same server rules as citizens.
 

Dsawemd

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Just because they own the town doesn't mean they should be allowed to kick someone with the sole purpose just to take their stuff. Mayors should have the same server rules as citizens.
When a Mayor kicks someone for the sole purpose of "Taking their Stuff", such cases are evaluated on a case-by-case basis.
Such Mayors are immediately ostracized and called out as Frauds when they try to recruit in public chats.

Control of your town does not fall under server rules. Being part of a town is not required to play the server.

Because Town Rules do not universally apply to players on the server, we can examine the differences between Town Rules and Server Rules.

In Server Rules:
  • Everyone is equal, from a LostSoul on his first day, to LightningCape (Mod) or Yeti (Admin) when they play.
  • That means that everyone must obey the rules to the exact same degree. Crimes/Rule breaking is dealt with as consistently as possible.
  • Everyone who wants to play the server must follow these rules to play HeroCraft, so the server rules must therefore be applied universally and without bias.

In Town Rules:
  • Everyone is NOT equal. There are several levels of "Power" in a town.
  • Just like Kainzo needs the power to control who enters the server, Mayors (or the ruling group of players, as according to your town lore) need the power to control who is in their town.
  • You join a town by Choice. Because a Town is a tightly knit community that is NOT required to play the game, it is acceptable to allow bias to be a factor when enforcing order WITHIN a Town.

TL: DR
I could support a stronger punishment for Mayors who are found guilty of stealing from citizens.
I will not support something that restricted a Mayor's control over their town's citizen list.
 

RagingDragon5

Portal
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
TL: DR
I could support a stronger punishment for Mayors who are found guilty of stealing from citizens.
I will not support something that restricted a Mayor's control over their town's citizen list.

My main point was to not allow Mayors the ability to steal from citizens.
I wasn't trying to make it to where they have no control over their town's citizens list.

Edit: Idk what TL: DR means.
 

Yavool

Legacy Supporter 9
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Location
Spokane, WA
From a legal standpoint, malicious intent is too high of a standard, IMO. It both requires clear and convincing proof as a element of proving the crime, AND it puts the burden of proof on the victim. I see this a unfair for a few reasons:

1) LWC are expensive, and stating that people should use LWCs to cover all their stuff is indeed promoting "pay to win" tactics - something that Kainzo has expressly said is not what this server is about. I don't know how many chests you guys have, but I'd be broke if I LWC'd all my chests, even with tier 9 status; I couldn't imagine the cost of running a town at 500s a pop for town supply chests (let alone two towns).
2) Herocraft has a progressive disciplinary action system. This should be more consistently incorporated, and if someone steals from their own town, the "malicious intent" should be a factor in the severity of the discipline, not an element of whether there should be discipline at all.
3) Stealing from a town, region, or plot should be illegal when that person has perms to those protected regions and takes from another. In short, stealing from another within a protected region should be considered malicious intent per se.
3) The victim just got jacked of all their stuff, and now they have to prove malicious intent when they are not allowed to know (unless they are the mayor and it was a townfolk...I don't know about noble/royal plots) who stole from them. How is one to prove such intent, especially given such limited information? Even if a person know who did it, it turns into a "he said, she said" situation, of which the one who was stole from will generally lose due to such a high (clear and convincing) burden of proof.
4) This sort of thing does not promote noble/royal plot purchases or usage...this sort of ruling will fall on the side of "maybe it *isn't* a good idea to purchase that 8000s plot."

On the other side: "know they friends well...but know thy enemies better." Sucks that you got ripped off by someone you once trusted...but wasn't there way to remove that person's perms so that they couldn't get into the plot? Ravenhold had town theft happen last map, and we were able to prove malicious intent. The person hasn't been back on HC since (and HC is better for it, for that behavior is a drag for this server), but it still doesn't make up for the negative impact the inside-job theft had on the town.

Best of luck, kenster, on getting your stuff back, or on getting justice served.
 

Xhazed

Portal
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Location
Miami FL
I think stealing from towns and noble plots should be legal for everyone, why because the person chooses to add said person to their plot/town it is not required for you to invite them, and the other way around because you can apply to a town be invited but you DONT have to join it, so yea......
 

xMJay

Portal
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
i steal from rshooter's chesta all the time because he stole all of my emerald blocks so he could trade with villagers because he thought it was cool
 

Dsawemd

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
3) Stealing from a town, region, or plot should be illegal when that person has perms to those protected regions and takes from another. In short, stealing from another within a protected region should be considered malicious intent per se.

4) This sort of thing does not promote noble/royal plot purchases or usage...this sort of ruling will fall on the side of "maybe it *isn't* a good idea to purchase that 8000s plot."
quick note: The "burden of proof" is not on the victim ever. It is on whomever has Hawkeye. This is not a trial, more like a player Pe's a crime and the Upper Staff is the Police.

3. See my above post explaining the different logic behind the Town Rules and Universal Server Rules.

4. Noble Plots are entirely different. NO ONE should be on the noble plot permissions except for the owner of the noble plot. If you prefer to let people onto your region, that is YOUR risk.

Royal Plots allow multiple residents (up to 3 after the Owner). These residents are considered permanent (ie: you cannot constantly swap perms to allow an entire town to build within a Royal Plot) and as such a certain degree of responsibility is assumed by them.
A good clarification rule would be that you are not allowed to steal from a Royal Plot if you are granted Permissions for that plot, because THAT is something that is regulated by server rules.

Noble Plots are meant to be individual residences, and protection should not be given under the rules to players who risk their gear by adding "friends" to their individual residence.
 

JupiterRome

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Location
l
I fucked @Xhazed once ermm I mean idk how ruger doing this is low when taking advantage of my nubs and stealing all my shit isn't :p
 

Ruger392

Obsidian
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
All of this is unnecessary. I looted you fair and square without any hard feelings. IMO the AD nation is more mad than you are. @kenster1092 plus i didnt kick out irishman out of my plot AD forced him to leave he wanted to stay. And I left ad because I got bored of it. This thread should be closed
 

Ruger392

Obsidian
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
What was really funny about this after reading all the post is that several sentinel members have msg me saying they wanted to do the same thing
 
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