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Suggestion Looting from spawn plot considered legal - Really?!

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Xanipher

Tea & Bacon
Retired Staff
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Location
Toronto
At the end of the day, theft on something you would not regularly have access to should be illegal, end of story. If someone leaves chests open to the public, then yes, this is the responsibility of the owner. However, if I invite someone into my home and they rob me blind, this does not excuse them from fault. This rule needs to be changed. Also if dirt is not a viable means of security, then why allow it to protect cheats? I break into towns all the time, but walk out with very little valuables due to dirt over chests. But, I don't have regions, so I can't get into them. So instead of rewarding someone for infiltrating regions, reward the person who has the ability to break the blocks. This is broken and it should be obvious to all.
Well tbh, we can't really stop users from putting dirt on top of their chests. It's completely unpolicable. The only alternate to the theft in noble plot issue is to only allow one person (the owner) on the regions. The only exception would be adding people to perform a skill or trade, such as engineers. That situation is ok to make theft illegal for since its a trade protected function.

For noble plots, I knew it would make people upset if we limited it to one person per plot or stated that it wasn't for storage. So I let people add more than one person, and allowed them to have chests. Perhaps in future maps we will go back to only allowing one user per plot.

I think users are being a little shortsighted on this issue. Even if we can punish the user for taking your stuff, we can't find or reimburse your items. Rolling back the chests would just create duplicates and further ruin the economy. Don't add people to your noble plot and there won't be issues. This rule has been in place for many iterations of noble plots. It gives users less incentives to join and contribute to towns if noble plots were deemed an ultimate protection for your stuff. The staff has always maintained that LWC is the ultimate protection and it will continue to be the only ultimate protection. The lack of money is not a good reason to say LWC isn't good enough. LWC your most important, irreplaceable things, obviously don't LWC your chests with cobble and wood in it.

That being said, if we changed the rule for noble plots, it would have to have the same rule for towns so that they are equal. Or somehow make noble plots less attractive than towns. Noble plots are more intended for people with too much money to buy a place to put a nice house. It was never intended to be a replacement or alternative to towns or personal regions. And obviously, people will try to use it as such and I won't stop them.

I have always and will continue to listen to users concerns. I don't particularly like enforcing rules or making people unhappy. All the rules that are in place have been OK'd by Kainzo and other staff (so please don't assume I am alone in making these decisions). However, because of this I will make sure to have another discussion on the topic with the others and possible clarification/changing of rules. I know due to recent events there needs to be a conversation about mayor rules etc.

Keep in mind that even if it does become illegal to steal, the only thing that staff will do is punish the user. We cannot reimburse/rollback your items back or try to find them for you.
 
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Dsawemd

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
I consider myself still friends of kesnter and friends of his friends.
Ha! It's not like all of a sudden we hate you. It's just that now we know you are Untrustworthy. I myself keep a list of players like you so that I can never ever be in the same town/guild with them.

But you also really should understand that this has made you some enemies, as well as changing our perception of you for the worse. You CAN'T consider yourself friends with people and do things like THIS to them.
 

Xanipher

Tea & Bacon
Retired Staff
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Location
Toronto
Ha! It's not like all of a sudden we hate you. It's just that now we know you are Untrustworthy. I myself keep a list of players like you so that I can never ever be in the same town/guild with them.

But you also really should understand that this has made you some enemies, as well as changing our perception of you for the worse. You CAN'T consider yourself friends with people and do things like THIS to them.
See, this is how I think it should be! It's so much more interesting to have users retaliate against people for injustices. I wish people would just get groups of people and fight back against the undesirables, bounty and hunt them, steal back from them, make them a pariah. I dislike staff becoming involved for this sort of thing because then people just go on with their boring day, thinking that justice has been served.

When I was Queen of Newerth 1 and 2, we were very selective and very picky about our members. One of our rules was to never steal (of course), we made it well known because town theft was not policed by server law. I think over those two maps we had 1 incidence of theft. We hired hitmen and called in favours to ruthless pvpers. We painted the country side with his blood and the the user never joined another town as long as we played. I know it sucks to be stolen from, but looking back that was one of my fav memories of HC haha.
 

kenster1092

Legacy Supporter 1
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Location
Philippines
Xanipher... I never demanded nor wanted a reimbursement of items, as I already know the staff won't do so (it's been repeated in the broadcast a million times it's already in my head). All I asked was to maybe punish the perpetrator IF it seemed fit, no reimbursements required....

@Ruger392 I knew you had perms, but forgot to remove them once I heard the news that you left AD (that is the fault on my side). I still consider you as a (not 100%) "friend" but I'm on really high caution about you since you broke the trust I gave you.
 
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JupiterRome

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Location
l
I don't think you are quite grasping the idea here. This has nothing to do with other towns stealing from other towns. That is perfectly legal and happens all the time.

This post is/was in regards to possible region abuse. Ruger was previously part of AD and then left. After his departure he was still on some "townie*" regions and looted them dry.


*By "townie," I don't explicitly mean a town region. You know what I mean.
But its not region abuse XD him being part of ad dosnt matter at all, I could be in EnchantedHollow be on franky's noble plot go steal everything and no action from staff would be taken because there is no rule violation....
 

Xanipher

Tea & Bacon
Retired Staff
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Location
Toronto
Xanipher... I never demanded nor wanted a reimbursement of items, as I already know the staff won't do so (it's been repeated in the broadcast a million times it's already in my head). All I asked was to maybe punish the perpetrator IF it seemed fit, no reimbursements required....

@Ruger392 I knew you had perms, but forgot to remove them once I heard the news that you left AD (that is the fault on my side). I still consider you as a (not 100%) "friend" but I'm on really high caution about you since you broke the trust I gave you.
Haha I know, no worries. It's more of a general statement for everyone
 

alexhoff1

Gold
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
(I hope you don't mind my input, but this is a topic I believe I was considered "familiar" with?)

It should be illegal, though the punishment shouldn't be as severe.
Why?
Well, mostly because you put them onto the region, it should be considered the same as a township (Unless ofcourse the rules have been changed). At the same time, however, you must remember that you are technichly responsible for putting them onto the region.

These have been stated, but honestly I never trusted anyone besides a few close IRL friends to have access to my plot, just because stuff like this can happen.


Good Luck!
-Alex
 

TheYeti

Raaaawr!
Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Sep 22, 2011
Location
Beaverton, OR
This is honestly player politics, not something for staff to police. The only theft we should ever be getting involved in is abuse of game mechanics or abuse of power (someone on staff using elevated permissions to steal). Otherwise, you guys should be taking it upon yourselves to handle these issues.

Don't want your stuff stolen, lwc the chest. Really concerned about it, don't give any access to it to anyone. Think of the server as the wild west. The staff is the Marshall's. We aren't here to take care of policing the petty crimes, that is what the local sheriff and the posse is for.

TL;DR This is a Hardcore server, stop qq'ing, put on your big boy panties, and go shank a bitch for stealing your shit.
 

Trazil

Legacy Supporter 2
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
This is honestly player politics, not something for staff to police. The only theft we should ever be getting involved in is abuse of game mechanics or abuse of power (someone on staff using elevated permissions to steal). Otherwise, you guys should be taking it upon yourselves to handle these issues.

Don't want your stuff stolen, lwc the chest. Really concerned about it, don't give any access to it to anyone. Think of the server as the wild west. The staff is the Marshall's. We aren't here to take care of policing the petty crimes, that is what the local sheriff and the posse is for.

TL;DR This is a Hardcore server, stop qq'ing, put on your big boy panties, and go shank a bitch for stealing your shit.
but the wild west you just kill the marshalls then do what ever you want :p
 

ShadowRavynn

Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Location
Florida
See, this is how I think it should be! It's so much more interesting to have users retaliate against people for injustices. I wish people would just get groups of people and fight back against the undesirables, bounty and hunt them, steal back from them, make them a pariah. I dislike staff becoming involved for this sort of thing because then people just go on with their boring day, thinking that justice has been served.

When I was Queen of Newerth 1 and 2, we were very selective and very picky about our members. One of our rules was to never steal (of course), we made it well known because town theft was not policed by server law. I think over those two maps we had 1 incidence of theft. We hired hitmen and called in favours to ruthless pvpers. We painted the country side with his blood and the the user never joined another town as long as we played. I know it sucks to be stolen from, but looking back that was one of my fav memories of HC haha.


AND THIS is why I think if someone raids you or steals from you and you petition it, I think we should be told who we were raided by! It would promote PvP and add another layer to the game by having more rivalries, and give people a reason to put bounties on people and go after them etc. This is how it should be! :p <3 <3 and on a side note, just to put this out there - I think Yeti & Xani are doing an awesome job - all the staff are! I have not had dealings with everyone but thank you to all the Staff that put so much time and passion into our server. Thank you all for that!
 
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w0nd3rb0y

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
May 4, 2012
Location
Charlotte, North Carolina
See, this is how I think it should be! It's so much more interesting to have users retaliate against people for injustices. I wish people would just get groups of people and fight back against the undesirables, bounty and hunt them, steal back from them, make them a pariah. I dislike staff becoming involved for this sort of thing because then people just go on with their boring day, thinking that justice has been served.

I would love to retaliate, however most of these nublets hide in their impenetrable towns talking about how awesome they think they are.
 

Dakinara

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
i agree with shadow - if policy is going to be this is up to players to enforce, then any petitioned theft, mods need to tell players who the thief was.
 

Dakinara

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
At the moment we are only allowed to tell mayors and owners of regions. If it's not in a region you probably wont get anything.

yeah i know that is current policy, i just think policy should change. A know your thief policy would encourage pvp / rivaly, lets new players find out who took their stuff and then others can choose to intervene if want. Would promote more fighting, and IMO we need as much incentive to fight as possible (looking forward to proposed pvp objectives also).

Course i also think every new player should get one free lwc or some method to protect some of their stuff - we really need a good influx of new players constantly, need to develop some means to encourage them to stick around.
 

Xhazed

Portal
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Location
Miami FL
I would love to retaliate, however most of these nublets hide in their impenetrable towns talking about how awesome they think they are.
Lolol sorry that not most towns have 100 people like AD And when we go raid you guys you just hide and wait until you guys have like 10 full parties to kill 3 raiders
 

Xanipher

Tea & Bacon
Retired Staff
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Location
Toronto
i agree with shadow - if policy is going to be this is up to players to enforce, then any petitioned theft, mods need to tell players who the thief was.
The mayor/manager is allowed to tell you who did it. Just ask your mayor/managers after we investigate. One of the reasons we don't tell a player directly is that maybe it was a misunderstanding and the mayor should be able to calmly investigate the reasons why it happened. Sometimes the victim is too gung-ho when it could have been an honest mistake. There have been a lot of times where there this has happened. But I dunno! Maybe that rule can change, doesn't matter to me either way. Just might cause additional drama that was unnecessary. I can see issues with the victim doing things that are irreversible.
 

Dakinara

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
The mayor/manager is allowed to tell you who did it. Just ask your mayor/managers after we investigate. One of the reasons we don't tell a player directly is that maybe it was a misunderstanding and the mayor should be able to calmly investigate the reasons why it happened. Sometimes the victim is too gung-ho when it could have been an honest mistake. There have been a lot of times where there this has happened. But I dunno! Maybe that rule can change, doesn't matter to me either way. Just might cause additional drama that was unnecessary. I can see issues with the victim doing things that are irreversible.

eh, im more talking about when stuff is stolen / griefed by random people, not necessarily in town. like my dorky christmas thing by spawn - people broke a bunch of stuff on it, whaetver, i dont really feel like petitioning and getting people banned for griefing but i would like to get names so i can kill people for stuff like that lol. but policy is generally not to give names to players.
 
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