Suggestion Faction Problems

[J2BH]

This still leaves the issue of factions such as LlamaEmpire having 330 power. There's no way that anyone is going to get through that power to claim over faction land. Maybe capping players isn't the correct approach, but I think something needs to be done to stop huge factions from claiming giant areas and have such high power nobody can stop them.

There is always a way. We suck. That's the way.

 

[iAlchemist]

I have to agree with @Grandtheftpro

There is always a way. We suck. That's the way.

With the current system, mass recruiting is the same thing as being completely immune to raiding. It's essentially cheating the system, in my book. I personally think capping player count is a good idea, maybe it'll allow for more spread out "PvP champs" and encourage more alliances between factions. If we don't put a cap on it, we'll get monstrously large scale factions, even if the power and claim limit is lowered numbers often win over skill.

Also, grandtheftpro,
I saw what you did there with Prince Arthas.

~iAlchemist

 

[IronAegis]

Amen! We do suck

 

[Grandtheftpro]

I have to agree with @Grandtheftpro

With the current system, mass recruiting is the same thing as being completely immune to raiding. It's essentially cheating the system, in my book. I personally think capping player count is a good idea, maybe it'll allow for more spread out "PvP champs" and encourage more alliances between factions. If we don't put a cap on it, we'll get monstrously large scale factions, even if the power and claim limit is lowered numbers often win over skill.

Also, grandtheftpro,
I saw what you did there with Prince Arthas.

~iAlchemist

This is my point entirely. I think that when newer player see factions that have that number of players and such huge landmass it just makes it seem hopeless to have an impact on them.

 

[iAlchemist]

Amen! We do suck

Hey now, I sort of suck but I can still win a 2v1 or a 3v1.

 

[joshtsai]

I did the math. As it stands currently someone would have to kill Llamaempire 43 times in order to make the base claimable to raid it properly. 43 times is obviously an amount that makes raiding moot, killing any number of people that many times will just make them quit. The point of factions was to have fast and fluid pvp/raiding. That is why when the faction power is low enough the land can be claimed over.

I think a more appropriate fix would be to:

Increase the amount of power that each claim takes. - This would make factions think twice about claiming land as to avoid a total lost when they lose a bit of overall power. Right now each Claim "counts" for 1 power, this is too small.

Charge to claim land for the faction- I don't think a tax should be implanted because currently the only way to earn money is mining and we don't want people to spend all of their time mining, but I do think that factions should spend sometime earning money to be able to buy land.

Turn on friendly fire for factions- This would force factions to only fight in groups of 10 or fewer which would then make fights more fair. As it stands a faction with 20 people could over run any faction and have no fear of hitting their friends.

Turn on TnT for use worldwide- Tnt currently isn't enabled, this is a center point for faction raiding and is very popular.

Allow TnT placement for all Professions BUT Crafter- This would allow for players to make the decision, do they want to have a skill to get them to spawn or have the ability to properly raid other factions.

Enable all Chest, Plate and Button, and other miscellaneous containers to be opened by all people- Defense should be smart and difficult to set up, it isn't logical that one small door can hold back a group of raiders.

Anything else, or arguments against please reply.

 

[RegularHumanMode]

TNT should definitely be enabled. Not sure why it isn't. That was the whole point of factions raiding for me back in the day when I used to play on factions PvP servers. Lining a faction's walls with TNT and then lighting them up... Good times, good times.

The best way I can think of to balance the whole killing enough people to claim a faction would be to limit the number of people in a faction to 10-15 players. It would essentially make a network of factions instead of a single large, indestructible faction. It also encourages a bit of politics, which I enjoy.

Friendly fire should be off for factions and allies. AOE's and stuff like that would be a serious hassle otherwise with faction members accidentally killing each other in a large fight. Limiting faction size effectively limits group size, but eh.

If you add TNT you do not need a raider to have access to doors/levers/etc when they can blow through it. Seems a bit brutish, but it works. Just bring a lot of TNT.

I did the math. As it stands currently someone would have to kill Llamaempire 43 times in order to make the base claimable to raid it properly. 43 times is obviously an amount that makes raiding moot, killing any number of people that many times will just make them quit. The point of factions was to have fast and fluid pvp/raiding. That is why when the faction power is low enough the land can be claimed over.

I think a more appropriate fix would be to:

Increase the amount of power that each claim takes. - This would make factions think twice about claiming land as to avoid a total lost when they lose a bit of overall power. Right now each Claim "counts" for 1 power, this is too small.

Charge to claim land for the faction- I don't think a tax should be implanted because currently the only way to earn money is mining and we don't want people to spend all of their time mining, but I do think that factions should spend sometime earning money to be able to buy land.

Turn on friendly fire for factions- This would force factions to only fight in groups of 10 or fewer which would then make fights more fair. As it stands a faction with 20 people could over run any faction and have no fear of hitting their friends.

Turn on TnT for use worldwide- Tnt currently isn't enabled, this is a center point for faction raiding and is very popular.

Allow TnT placement for all Professions BUT Crafter- This would allow for players to make the decision, do they want to have a skill to get them to spawn or have the ability to properly raid other factions.

Enable all Chest, Plate and Button, and other miscellaneous containers to be opened by all people- Defense should be smart and difficult to set up, it isn't logical that one small door can hold back a group of raiders.

Anything else, or arguments against please reply.

Above stuff is reply to some of your points. Forgot to click reply :l

 

[joshtsai]

SNIP

I honestly think the TnT was an oversight, when we did the testing for Factions it was enabled, but because of the level requirement for TnT no one was able to find it day one.

I'm still torn on if we should limit faction size or not. On one hand it would solve many issues, on the other it's just limiting the play style of certain players. My recommendations were created as to avoid limiting faction size, but it's still a reasonable argument.

AOE's and the like can be solved by just partying up with the people that you're leveling with. Also some players I'm sure would like to spare occasionally to practice pvp and we should allow that to happen as well.

A good point about the tnt and doors, it's not totally needed but might as well be enabled with TnT enabled.

 

[RegularHumanMode]

I honestly think the TnT was an oversight, when we did the testing for Factions it was enabled, but because of the level requirement for TnT no one was able to find it day one.

I'm still torn on if we should limit faction size or not. On one hand it would solve many issues, on the other it's just limiting the play style of certain players. My recommendations were created as to avoid limiting faction size, but it's still a reasonable argument.

AOE's and the like can be solved by just partying up with the people that you're leveling with. Also some players I'm sure would like to spare occasionally to practice pvp and we should allow that to happen as well.

A good point about the tnt and doors, it's not totally needed but might as well be enabled with TnT enabled.

Limiting faction size is tricky, I agree. No one wants to limit anyone's play style, but there aren't really many good ways around it. No one wants factions that are too big to fail (I'm sick and tired of the top 1% etc), especially when they suck (no offense J2BH).

We could have played deaths take away more power when in PvP, but that would punish smaller factions. We could implement systems which would punish larger factions, such as having power loss greater with more people in a faction per death, but there is not a large difference between that and a player cap except that it makes it slightly more flexible.

I think the solution is probably something with percentages of power loss relative to faction land and faction players, but I am too tired to figure it out right now. Think of it in the morning.

 

[joshtsai]

Limiting faction size is tricky, I agree. No one wants to limit anyone's play style, but there aren't really many good ways around it. No one wants factions that are too big to fail (I'm sick and tired of the top 1% etc), especially when they suck (no offense J2BH).

We could have played deaths take away more power when in PvP, but that would punish smaller factions. We could implement systems which would punish larger factions, such as having power loss greater with more people in a faction per death, but there is not a large difference between that and a player cap except that it makes it slightly more flexible.

I think the solution is probably something with percentages of power loss relative to faction land and faction players, but I am too tired to figure it out right now. Think of it in the morning.

That would also be good, but sounds a bit more complicated for a simple pvp experience.

 

[RegularHumanMode]

That would also be good, but sounds a bit more complicated for a simple pvp experience.

They don't see complicated. They see big faction=lose power quicker, Small faction=lose power slower.

 

[IronAegis]

Few points I would like to bring up:

1) TnT should definitely be enabled for all professions to use (besides crafter)
2) Power should accumulate at a much slower rate, I had died and not even an hour later my power was back at full
3) If people complain about faction size, why do they not recruit the new people that spam that they actually need a faction
4) The current events that are happening limit the ability of new players to actually form into the current player base on the factions server, it created a big disparity between the power of the new players and the current ones. This also makes it to where many new players would have to join a existing faction to actually make a difference, not allowing for much diversity of pvp or faction composition. This would eventually lead to many big factions, instead of many small ones.

 

[RegularHumanMode]

So, this is the general equation I came up with for power loss. The x-axis is number of players in the faction and the y-axis is power loss per player death. I am not 100% sure what the amount of power per person was, but it can be changed pretty easily to account for it. For the graph, you start out losing 1 power for a faction of 0 people, 2 power for a faction of 15, and 5 for a faction of 30.

Y = ( (1/15) X) ^ 2 + 1

I just assumed there was 1 power per person, but it's probably different and it can be changed.

 

[J2BH]

Limiting faction size is tricky, I agree. No one wants to limit anyone's play style, but there aren't really many good ways around it. No one wants factions that are too big to fail (I'm sick and tired of the top 1% etc), especially when they suck (no offense J2BH).

We could have played deaths take away more power when in PvP, but that would punish smaller factions. We could implement systems which would punish larger factions, such as having power loss greater with more people in a faction per death, but there is not a large difference between that and a player cap except that it makes it slightly more flexible.

I think the solution is probably something with percentages of power loss relative to faction land and faction players, but I am too tired to figure it out right now. Think of it in the morning.

Ah none taken. See, the fact we suck is what balances everything out! If we were to be good players this would've been an issue. But we aren't.

 

[J2BH]

I did the math. As it stands currently someone would have to kill Llamaempire 43 times in order to make the base claimable to raid it properly. 43 times is obviously an amount that makes raiding moot, killing any number of people that many times will just make them quit. The point of factions was to have fast and fluid pvp/raiding. That is why when the faction power is low enough the land can be claimed over.

I think a more appropriate fix would be to:

Increase the amount of power that each claim takes. - This would make factions think twice about claiming land as to avoid a total lost when they lose a bit of overall power. Right now each Claim "counts" for 1 power, this is too small.

Charge to claim land for the faction- I don't think a tax should be implanted because currently the only way to earn money is mining and we don't want people to spend all of their time mining, but I do think that factions should spend sometime earning money to be able to buy land.

Turn on friendly fire for factions- This would force factions to only fight in groups of 10 or fewer which would then make fights more fair. As it stands a faction with 20 people could over run any faction and have no fear of hitting their friends.

Turn on TnT for use worldwide- Tnt currently isn't enabled, this is a center point for faction raiding and is very popular.

Allow TnT placement for all Professions BUT Crafter- This would allow for players to make the decision, do they want to have a skill to get them to spawn or have the ability to properly raid other factions.

Enable all Chest, Plate and Button, and other miscellaneous containers to be opened by all people- Defense should be smart and difficult to set up, it isn't logical that one small door can hold back a group of raiders.

Anything else, or arguments against please reply.

If you want raiding and fluid pvp, you'll need to reset factions. Right now the events that took place completely tipped the scales in the favor of those who attented, and left those who didnt in the dust. Having those events waas the worst decision in factions (and its only been like 3 days!). The playerbase is completely divided now into those who attended the event, and those who didn't. This is why "Fluid pvp and raiding" will never exist, because it would just be a fest of high levels owning low levels (Thanks to the event). If you want this fluid pvp and raiding, you'll need to reset factions or levels, period.

 

[RegularHumanMode]

If you want raiding and fluid pvp, you'll need to reset factions. Right now the events that took place completely tipped the scales in the favor of those who attented, and left those who didnt in the dust. Having those events waas the worst decision in factions (and its only been like 3 days!). The playerbase is completely divided now into those who attended the event, and those who didn't. This is why "Fluid pvp and raiding" will never exist, because it would just be a fest of high levels owning low levels (Thanks to the event). If you want this fluid pvp and raiding, you'll need to reset factions or levels, period.

Wait, what event?

 

[J2BH]

Wait, what event?

There were 2 idiotic events, where, if you attended, you practically mastered your class and then some. To put it simply, a free mass leveling event

 

[joshtsai]

There were 2 idiotic events, where, if you attended, you practically mastered your class and then some. To put it simply, a free mass leveling event

I've also mastered a class outside of an event. I agree that the levels during the event were a bit much, however that doesn't mean that it's impossible to level your class. You keep bringing up theses events as if they are a false dilemma. Leveling has been incredibility easy from the start of the server. I had Cleric at level 40 without any events and in my opinion that's a much harder class to level because of the lack of reliable ways to kill creepers that steal EXP. Wizard, Ranger and others are beyond easy to master. Yes, party exp has been messed up from the start, but that isn't stoping anyone from just traveling to an unoccupied part of the map and leveling solo in peace. There is no TnT so people are safe in their base. Items are safe, and leveling isn't being held back by people not having the right gear. Simply put there isn't any excuse to not be leveling classes.

 

[J2BH]

I've also mastered a class outside of an event. I agree that the levels during the event were a bit much, however that doesn't mean that it's impossible to level your class. You keep bringing up theses events as if they are a false dilemma. Leveling has been incredibility easy from the start of the server. I had Cleric at level 40 without any events and in my opinion that's a much harder class to level because of the lack of reliable ways to kill creepers that steal EXP. Wizard, Ranger and others are beyond easy to master. Yes, party exp has been messed up from the start, but that isn't stoping anyone from just traveling to an unoccupied part of the map and leveling solo in peace. There is no TnT so people are safe in their base. Items are safe, and leveling isn't being held back by people not having the right gear. Simply put there isn't any excuse to not be leveling classes.

You can't push aside the event by just claiming leveling is easy. Literally yes, exp gains are great...but that's WHEN you can gain. You can't ignore the deficit created by these events by simply saying everyone can level. Everyone can do anything, everyone can get great gear and can be very strong, which is great. However, not everyone is or was hand fed these things. This is where the problem is. People were hand fed levels in those events, levels that players who didnt attend, would have to spend their time on getting, while those who did can spend their time on mining, growing their faction, leveling their profession etc. You can see where I'm going with this now. Those events gave players who attended a clear gateway to get ahead on the server, where those who didn't attend will be forced to linger behind. Especially when they don't have the resources to build impenetrable farming areas and will get killed easily when seen in the wild.

 

[joshtsai]

You can't push aside the event by just claiming leveling is easy. Literally yes, exp gains are great...but that's WHEN you can gain. You can't ignore the deficit created by these events by simply saying everyone can level. Everyone can do anything, everyone can get great gear and can be very strong, which is great. However, not everyone is or was hand fed these things. This is where the problem is. People were hand fed levels in those events, levels that players who didnt attend, would have to spend their time on getting, while those who did can spend their time on mining, growing their faction, leveling their profession etc. You can see where I'm going with this now. Those events gave players who attended a clear gateway to get ahead on the server, where those who didn't attend will be forced to linger behind. Especially when they don't have the resources to build impenetrable farming areas and will get killed easily when seen in the wild.

In my opinion the events saved, at most 2-3 days of work spent in leveling. While you cannot ignore the consequences of an event you also cannot compare the amount of work put in by two different groups of people. Some people spend more time online than others, and those people tend to master classes faster, event or no event. I assume that most of the people in your faction did not attend the event which is why you attack it so egregiously. However you also cannot deny that the people in your faction tend to play less than those who are far up in their levels. Time is the ultimate coefficient, you can't just deny the time that dedicated levelers put into the time towards leveling their classes.

I attended the second event. In the time after that I haven't mined at all, and I've put my time into mastering another base class. And as for the "impenetrable farming areas" I invite you to see what my farming area looks like. http://imgur.com/a/BMChn Very safe as you can see, pretty much no one will ever be able to get in here. You can't just complain about level unfairness when you sit around in your faction home all day. Leveling is done in the wilderness and to get out there you need to go outside sometimes.