Suggestion Faction Problems

[Leo2596]

As of now there are some problems with the factions server such as the gold being a 1:1 ratio which is kinda stupid seeing that you need 100 gold to switch classes/professions. I feel that either gold should give you more coins or the price for a class switch should be lowered. Another issue with factions is that the nether portals don't work and I don't know if this is supposed to be this way, but /pvp isn't a command.

 

[Kenneth_Chow]

Nether is no working because Kainzo hasn't imported the world in yet. I'll work whenever it's ported in

Also I feel the class cost is fine because currently once mastering you can switch back for free

Edit:But I do agree gold should give at least 3-5 coins

 

[Irishman81]

Also leveling is quite slow

 

[joshtsai]

Also leveling is quite slow

Agreed.

/Skill warp still doesn't work.

 

[Irishman81]

Also leveling is quite slow

Could the party function where low level players get minuscule exp when partied with someone 10+ levels above them still in? I know that was added before the heavensgate release, not sure if that could be contributing to it. @Kainzo

 

[Kainzo]

As of now there are some problems with the factions server such as the gold being a 1:1 ratio which is kinda stupid seeing that you need 100 gold to switch classes/professions. I feel that either gold should give you more coins or the price for a class switch should be lowered. Another issue with factions is that the nether portals don't work and I don't know if this is supposed to be this way, but /pvp isn't a command.

Addressing this.

Nether is no working because Kainzo hasn't imported the world in yet. I'll work whenever it's ported in

Also I feel the class cost is fine because currently once mastering you can switch back for free

Edit:But I do agree gold should give at least 3-5 coins

^^^ will be hotfixed

Also leveling is quite slow

Leveling is 4 times faster than normal pre 8.2 leveling. I don't know how its "too slow" when its faster than it has ever been.
We're using the linear formula. With a power setting of 1.0 so normal growth. Mobs give more exp the further you go from spawn too.
Just so we have some info here, it takes 100K exp to get to level 60, In previous maps this number was much higher (300-400k).
On survival it takes 1000K exp.

I can easily tweak these numbers, I just want more than "its too slow" maybe some factual info to back that up, rather than hazing!

Could the party function where low level players get minuscule exp when partied with someone 10+ levels above them still in? I know that was added before the heavensgate release, not sure if that could be contributing to it. @Kainzo

The party function could be, I dont think there was a toggle for this change though, it was a "hotfix" to proper leveling, but maybe we can add in a toggle.

Agreed.

/Skill warp still doesn't work.

I pushed a fix for this, let me retest it, really just takes adding "Dolor" to the config and unless someone overwrote my changes it should be in.

 

[Irishman81]

Addressing this.

^^^ will be hotfixed

Leveling is 4 times faster than normal pre 8.2 leveling. I don't know how its "too slow" when its faster than it has ever been.
We're using the linear formula. With a power setting of 1.0 so normal growth. Mobs give more exp the further you go from spawn too.
Just so we have some info here, it takes 100K exp to get to level 60, In previous maps this number was much higher (300-400k).
On survival it takes 1000K exp.

I can easily tweak these numbers, I just want more than "its too slow" maybe some factual info to back that up, rather than hazing!


The party function could be, I dont think there was a toggle for this change though, it was a "hotfix" to proper leveling, but maybe we can add in a toggle.

I pushed a fix for this, let me retest it, really just takes adding "Dolor" to the config and unless someone overwrote my changes it should be in.

Yeah, too slow is too vague, my bad. In a party of ~3 I was getting around 4-6 exp per mob, which is around 1/50 needed to get to the next level. This is a pretty large number, especially since I was only level 4. Now, this is probably due to the party thing I mentioned above, but it's also due to mobs not giving enough exp. I believe a zombie gave me 40 exp, which once you get to around level 25-30, barely makes a dent in your exp towards the next level.

If we also go back to other maps, at least the last 2-3 have had dungeon leveling instead of swamp leveling, which had different exp values because there were custom mobs. I'm pretty sure some of the mobs in dungeons gave around 110 exp without a boost, which seems pretty fair to me.

Just in addition, don't take the fact that other people have already mastered as affirmation that the leveling is fine, there were some shady circumstances with an admin spawning custom mobs.

 

[Kainzo]

Yeah, too slow is too vague, my bad. In a party of ~3 I was getting around 4-6 exp per mob, which is around 1/50 needed to get to the next level. This is a pretty large number, especially since I was only level 4. Now, this is probably due to the party thing I mentioned above, but it's also due to mobs not giving enough exp. I believe a zombie gave me 40 exp, which once you get to around level 25-30, barely makes a dent in your exp towards the next level.

If we also go back to other maps, at least the last 2-3 have had dungeon leveling > swamp leveling, which had different exp values because there were custom mobs. I'm pretty sure some of the mobs in dungeons gave around 110 exp without a boost, which seems pretty fair to me.

Just in addition, don't take the fact that other people have already mastered as affirmation that the leveling is fine, there were some shady circumstances with an admin spawning custom mobs.

I'm investigating it.
@xexorian

@Irishman81
killing:
CHICKEN: 0.01
COW: 0.01
CREEPER: 46.5
GHAST: 65.5
GIANT: 100
PIG: 0.01
PIG_ZOMBIE: 75
SHEEP: 0.01
SKELETON: 36
OCELOT: 0.01
SLIME: 12.5
SPIDER: 28.5
SQUID: 0.01
ZOMBIE: 30
WOLF: 10
CAVE_SPIDER: 42
ENDERMAN: 57
ENDER_DRAGON: 255
SILVERFISH: 0
VILLAGER: 10
BLAZE: 75
MUSHROOM_COW: 0.1
MAGMA_CUBE: 14
SNOWMAN: 0.01
IRON_GOLEM: 40
PLAYER: 45
BAT: 0.01
WITHER: 150
WITCH: 28
GUARDIAN: 20
ELDERGUARDIAN: 20
ENDERMITE: 20
RABBIT: 1

These have been the same exp rates for a long time now, over multiple maps, mixed with the exp-increases per 100 blocks...

Is there just something wrong here or am i missing something?

 

[Irishman81]

I'm investigating it.
@xexorian

@Irishman81
killing:
CHICKEN: 0.01
COW: 0.01
CREEPER: 46.5
GHAST: 65.5
GIANT: 100
PIG: 0.01
PIG_ZOMBIE: 75
SHEEP: 0.01
SKELETON: 36
OCELOT: 0.01
SLIME: 12.5
SPIDER: 28.5
SQUID: 0.01
ZOMBIE: 30
WOLF: 10
CAVE_SPIDER: 42
ENDERMAN: 57
ENDER_DRAGON: 255
SILVERFISH: 0
VILLAGER: 10
BLAZE: 75
MUSHROOM_COW: 0.1
MAGMA_CUBE: 14
SNOWMAN: 0.01
IRON_GOLEM: 40
PLAYER: 45
BAT: 0.01
WITHER: 150
WITCH: 28
GUARDIAN: 20
ELDERGUARDIAN: 20
ENDERMITE: 20
RABBIT: 1

These have been the same exp rates for a long time now, over multiple maps, mixed with the exp-increases per 100 blocks...

Is there just something wrong here or am i missing something?

I'll have to re-test once the party exp multiplier problem is addressed, then I can look into it more. We can also go over all the numbers on Monday @Balance Team

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

Leveling is 4 times faster than normal pre 8.2 leveling.... We're using the linear formula. With a power setting of 1.0 so normal growth.

I believe a zombie gave me 40 exp, which once you get to around level 25-30, barely makes a dent in your exp towards the next level.

@Kainzo, with linear growth, are you referring to Hero level gain or mob changes out from spawn? If level gain, this info doesn't seem to fit with what @Irishman81 is saying.

 

[joshtsai]

Death Messages don't work, Xexo told me to put it here.

@xexorian

 

[Kainzo]

Death Messages don't work, Xexo told me to put it here.

@xexorian

Pvp messages were working, are you saying other death messages?

 

[joshtsai]

Pvp messages were working, are you saying other death messages?

As of right now, no death messages at all are poping up.

 

[xexorian]

I'm investigating it.
@xexorian

@Irishman81
killing:
CHICKEN: 0.01
COW: 0.01
CREEPER: 46.5
GHAST: 65.5
GIANT: 100
PIG: 0.01
PIG_ZOMBIE: 75
SHEEP: 0.01
SKELETON: 36
OCELOT: 0.01
SLIME: 12.5
SPIDER: 28.5
SQUID: 0.01
ZOMBIE: 30
WOLF: 10
CAVE_SPIDER: 42
ENDERMAN: 57
ENDER_DRAGON: 255
SILVERFISH: 0
VILLAGER: 10
BLAZE: 75
MUSHROOM_COW: 0.1
MAGMA_CUBE: 14
SNOWMAN: 0.01
IRON_GOLEM: 40
PLAYER: 45
BAT: 0.01
WITHER: 150
WITCH: 28
GUARDIAN: 20
ELDERGUARDIAN: 20
ENDERMITE: 20
RABBIT: 1

These have been the same exp rates for a long time now, over multiple maps, mixed with the exp-increases per 100 blocks...

Is there just something wrong here or am i missing something?

PLAYER: 45
CREEPER: 46.5
SKELETON: 36
ZOMBIE: 30
SPIDER: 28.5
SLIME: 12.5
WITCH: 28
CAVE_SPIDER: 42
VILLAGER: 10

I feel we can give these a boost on factions. A lot of people want to level quicker than the system was, for faster paced PVP. From what I've seen at least. I think keeping the total at 100K is fine.

As for the Boost, I would recommend 75 EXP for killing a player, and setting the rest as:
Creeper: 50
Skeleton: 45
Zombie: 40
Spider: 42.5
Witch: 125 (these are super rare, let's buff their rates.)
Enderman: 70 (these are impervious to ranged attacks, and kind of rare, let's buff it too.) - also noted it wasn't listed?
Cave_Spider: 47.5 (they're harder to hit than regular spiders and go thru 1x1 holes.)

that's all I would change for now, the rest of the Nether mobs should be bumped to about 50-75 and the passive mobs should all give about 1-3 EXP. The Wolf should give 15.

I also feel like Bats should be an EXP thing on factions, they seem to be limited to spawning in unlit caves from my experience I have not seen them actually respawn. I'd say we make them 25 EXP as well. Since they don't really attack it would be like finding an 'exp gem' and easily consumed by people spelunking.

Also, I heard Parties weren't giving proper EXP rates as well. There's been more feedback, and we're also seeing issues with Permissions for various groups. Mods lack some things, and some alias commands are not working even for me. @Kainzo Things like slap, faction disbanding seemed a bit screwy, dunno if we can fix that, also we need a timer on faction creation, people were spamming them after I tempmuted several for basically taking offtopic down to jihad levels. Ended up tempbanning to remove the cancerous tumors from spreading, and then got disband to work, and several minutes I was able to situate the problem... I think mods should just PE admins to get faction names disbanded under normal circumstances - but I kind of think we should give them the power anyway since people could abuse it to advertise their server on the /f list or to insult other players or target them personally, as was being done earlier tonight.

We also need council ruling on whether or not to allow grinders or dark rooms. I think they should be fine but if we find any stupid enormous ones underground we should just fill them with stone, rather than take disciplinary action (as like I said, I think it should be fine for a fast paced PVP server, it really needs to have that feel of being able to jump in, join a faction, go straight to it, and start getting into the thick of things.)

 

[xexorian]

Even with 100,000 EXP to level, / 60 that's roughly 1667 EXP per level average. Killing 10 players nets you 750 EXP but killing 20 Creepers with my proposed changes would be about 1k exp, or 1/2 level. So, 20 Creepers = 1000 EXP You would need to kill 100 times this amount which is 2,000 Creepers/Mobs on average.

That equates out to about 32-34 mobs per level, on average. I feel that's pretty consistent and fast. At the least, if it takes less early on, and more later on, it will balance out to let you level quicker to the 40's-60 ranges before it slows down noticeably.

On a good night in the swamp (which is about 17 minutes, you could kill probably 3~ groups of 4 mobs per minute. This is about 200 mobs a night if you're solo.) That's assuming you can kill that many and have resources to do so - also if you're in a party you would divide that EXP drastically.

Let's assume a solo player can manage 200 mobs a night, that's still 20 nights, or 20 nights and 20 days which is a solid 24-48 hours of grinding.

In a group, mobs die easier, but they don't necessarily spawn faster, so this would be about the same speed, but honestly I feel it's slower. I'd say it would take 35-70 hours ingame without getting lucky or using darkrooms for 24/7 speed. This would let you grind roughly twice as fast, theoretically. (and solo)

I'd bet the fastest someone could master would be around 6 hours with our current system and even a half ass dark room. As long as it was big enough. On survival the fastest I've leveled was in a group during a 200% boost in the old dungeons (prior to my release of them) and it was about 10 levels/hr around lvl 35-45 as a Paladin. I was able to manage about the same speed solo since the EXP was greater but my stamina/mana was not keeping up. With no boost, while solo, at one of these old spawners I was able to get about 1.5~ levels per hour at 55+. (IIRC)

 

[Grandtheftpro]

The factions system has some issues that I myself and others have found. The power system gives players who have a large amount of members outrageous power over those who do not.
For those unaware, to claim over someone elses land you must kill the members of a faction enough to have their power go below their number of claims. Power also allows factions to claim huge amounts of land without much repercussion.

I feel as if either the amount of power required to claim needs to be increased, or power per player needs to be lowered. I also believe that there should be a cap on players in a faction, as players who are not as active on the server (i.e work/school etc.) will have an even harder time finding their place in the world when 20+ player factions are roaming around.

I would suggest a 10 player cap on factions, and an increase of roughly 5 power per claim. There is also currently no way to access chests in another factions territory, not sure if this is intentional or not. - Prince Arthas.

Edit: Formatting.

TLDR: Cap number of players per faction to 10, increase power required to claim/decrease power per player and make chests in others faction territory accessable

 

[J2BH]

I think there are better ways of going about things than capping players. Capping would force players to make decisions they may not want to make, and that removes the player driven feel of the server, which is what it should be. Factions are and should be responsible to recruiting members in a persuasive manner in order to grow on the server, and players should have the choice to accept or decline those offers. Simply spoken, capping of players per faction removes some freedoms of the factions server, which is the quintessential aspect of the server

 

[J2BH]

@xexorian Not sure if this is intended, but miner does not gain exp while mining with the superheat ability active

 

[Kainzo]

As of right now, no death messages at all are poping up.

This must have been due to a hotfix I placed in, we'll fix it.

PLAYER: 45
CREEPER: 46.5
SKELETON: 36
ZOMBIE: 30
SPIDER: 28.5
SLIME: 12.5
WITCH: 28
CAVE_SPIDER: 42
VILLAGER: 10

I feel we can give these a boost on factions. A lot of people want to level quicker than the system was, for faster paced PVP. From what I've seen at least. I think keeping the total at 100K is fine.

As for the Boost, I would recommend 75 EXP for killing a player, and setting the rest as:
Creeper: 50
Skeleton: 45
Zombie: 40
Spider: 42.5
Witch: 125 (these are super rare, let's buff their rates.)
Enderman: 70 (these are impervious to ranged attacks, and kind of rare, let's buff it too.) - also noted it wasn't listed?
Cave_Spider: 47.5 (they're harder to hit than regular spiders and go thru 1x1 holes.)

that's all I would change for now, the rest of the Nether mobs should be bumped to about 50-75 and the passive mobs should all give about 1-3 EXP. The Wolf should give 15.

I also feel like Bats should be an EXP thing on factions, they seem to be limited to spawning in unlit caves from my experience I have not seen them actually respawn. I'd say we make them 25 EXP as well. Since they don't really attack it would be like finding an 'exp gem' and easily consumed by people spelunking.

Also, I heard Parties weren't giving proper EXP rates as well. There's been more feedback, and we're also seeing issues with Permissions for various groups. Mods lack some things, and some alias commands are not working even for me. @Kainzo Things like slap, faction disbanding seemed a bit screwy, dunno if we can fix that, also we need a timer on faction creation, people were spamming them after I tempmuted several for basically taking offtopic down to jihad levels. Ended up tempbanning to remove the cancerous tumors from spreading, and then got disband to work, and several minutes I was able to situate the problem... I think mods should just PE admins to get faction names disbanded under normal circumstances - but I kind of think we should give them the power anyway since people could abuse it to advertise their server on the /f list or to insult other players or target them personally, as was being done earlier tonight.

We also need council ruling on whether or not to allow grinders or dark rooms. I think they should be fine but if we find any stupid enormous ones underground we should just fill them with stone, rather than take disciplinary action (as like I said, I think it should be fine for a fast paced PVP server, it really needs to have that feel of being able to jump in, join a faction, go straight to it, and start getting into the thick of things.)

Adjusted the exp rates.
8.9.0.1
Factions
- Increase the exp base for all mobs by 50-75% (http://pastebin.com/mjHAjXaf)
- Temp remove CombatTagPlus to fix an exploit.

 

[Grandtheftpro]

I think there are better ways of going about things than capping players. Capping would force players to make decisions they may not want to make, and that removes the player driven feel of the server, which is what it should be. Factions are and should be responsible to recruiting members in a persuasive manner in order to grow on the server, and players should have the choice to accept or decline those offers. Simply spoken, capping of players per faction removes some freedoms of the factions server, which is the quintessential aspect of the server

This still leaves the issue of factions such as LlamaEmpire having 330 power. There's no way that anyone is going to get through that power to claim over faction land. Maybe capping players isn't the correct approach, but I think something needs to be done to stop huge factions from claiming giant areas and have such high power nobody can stop them.