Conquest - World PVP Objectives - Design Doc

[Ultanian]

Sounds great!

Though these should not be active all the time. There should be one located in every quadrant, and every other hour there should be a notification that a random one is currently active (but not day which one), and then last for one hour. This will encourage world travel and can generate other world pvp with groups running into each other while trying to find the active outpost.

If they are always active, people who play when there are less players on will be able to dominate and control all points for doing nothing. People wouldn't even fight at this time



AD is as big as it is because we have actively recruited, and people generally do not town hop out of our towns.

Maybe this is going to incentivize other towns/groups to get more members and not be an exclusive 'club' where you have to constantly 'get good', and troll.

I'd have to disagree with that, but I like the rotation of zones. What I think would be perfect and still promote travel is have one zone at a time open for control. That way you can't just camp one the whole time too

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

AD is as big as it is because we have actively recruited, and people generally do not town hop out of our towns.

Maybe this is going to incentivize other towns/groups to get more members and not be an exclusive 'club' where you have to constantly 'get good', and troll.

I left AD (formerly LO) because my town mates were not good enough. On that note, I'm going to have to ask you to get good.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

As Miners has mentioned previously, I have already made designs that would promote world PVP in select locations. The 'loot' could range from soul fragments to rare weapons.

http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/something-new-something-fresh.42046/

http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/new-game-lets-get-cooking.42578/

 

[Avoir]

People need to stop complaining about how big AD is, if you're that annoyed by them or if you want to create more pvp make a town and recruit active members.

 

[xMJay]

Well so AD is now going to win more souls....

ya ad needed more money for their kingdom

 

[Avoir]

ya ad needed more money for their kingdom

Maybe if you would be active you little girl.

 

[xMJay]

ya @Xhazed stop being inactive

 

[malikdanab]

One problem I see. While it is possible for many different groups working together to face a stronger enemy, it's not possible for them to all get rewarded.(Theoretically) AD brought 20 people and there was 4 groups of 5 that worked together against them. So even if the 4 group of 5 win, they still have to duke it out among themselves. If AD wins, they are all the same town so they'll just share the reward.

 

[Xhazed]

People need to stop complaining about how big AD is, if you're that annoyed by them or if you want to create more pvp make a town and recruit active members.

What can you recruit if the people that join mostly quit after they get camped by ELO wqnting peps

 

[Dakinara]

One problem I see. While it is possible for many different groups working together to face a stronger enemy, it's not possible for them to all get rewarded.(Theoretically) AD brought 20 people and there was 4 groups of 5 that worked together against them. So even if the 4 group of 5 win, they still have to duke it out among themselves. If AD wins, they are all the same town so they'll just share the reward.

This is one of the reasons why i think there should be lots of these things to capture, and maybe reduce the reward on each. But dunno how much stress that might put on server if this is ic driven. And i also dont know what the easiest mechanism to program this will be so going to just default to whatever the people that program decide / shrug.

All that said, one way these types of systems have worked in other games is that when someone is capturing an outpost you own, it gives off an alert and generally there is like 10-15 minutes for you to respond to the location to try and protect it before it will change hands. But say there are at least 10 outposts - it simply wont be feasible for one town to really protect them all if smaller towns decide to assault multiple locations at once. Dunno if something like that is feasible to program on here.

I personally like the idea of an "assault block" capture mechanism. You place a block that is purchased or otherwise town related on an outpost to start claim. Other towns have 15-30 minutes or something to try and destroy the block to deny your claim (block would take ~20 seconds of whacking to break to limit ninja potential). Then maybe a captured outpost cannot be reclaimed for at least an hour or two /shrug.

 

[whitayy]

Maybe there should be a big capture point, which should be for the big PvPers and then some side flag which descent players should capture but a smaller award. So the big boys on the server will be up against other good PvPers. But only allowed 5 players per team on the checkpoint

 

[Eldrylars]

@Kainzo I would not suggest any direct instant gains such as +XP or +Souls, I would also suggest not making these constant or on a exact timer.

I would suggest two types of control points that would be very similar code, to benefit all types of PVP players on the server.

For large control points I would suggest four different ones which provide a passive buff to a Township - Courage(Combat XP), Wisdom(Crafting XP), Wealth(Souls), and Brawn(Rare item boost). These would be small keeps/castle/structures that are defensible to the holding Township, regioned and possibly even have doors and switches that are setup to only function with the holding Township.

• These should not give a direct gain but a bonus % while being controlled. For instance, holding the Courage control point your township gains +10% xp gains from all combat actions while under control. While holding the Wealth control point your township gains +10% boost to soul drop chances...
• These control points should in my opinion and experience have a random timer between 4-8 hours that they become vulnerable. This timer will restart as soon as the control point is captured and be announced both when captured as well as 30 minutes before it becomes vulnerable. The previous owners of the control point can retake it, but it should take twice as long for them to capture the point for a second time in a row, to give a better chance the the raiding parties. When the timer is up, the controlling Township still maintains the buffs until another Township captures the control point.
  
• These control points should be very far apart, somewhere between the two sets of hero gates in each quadrant

Working along similar lines I would also suggest separate small control points which would be designed for individuals all the way up to Townships.

• These will work as automated mines, and shops. They will spawn items at random intervals which anyone can take. Examples would be an "Ore mine" will spawn Iron, Diamond, Emerald and Coal every 30-150 minutes. A "Trading Post" would spawn soul shards of various sizes and Quartz. The "Smithy" will spawn a random rare drop. The longer the timer runs the better the delivery.
  
• The owning Township will get 30 minute and 10 minute warning on item deliveries so they can have the advantage of knowing when a "shipment" is ready, but anyone can loot the shipment.
  
• The control points would become claimable every 3-6 hours. The current Township will retain ownership until another Township successfully claims the control point. It takes twice as long to claim the same control point if you already control it. This timer will restart as soon as the control point is captured and be announced both when captured as well as 30 minutes before it becomes vulnerable.
  
• I would think that 4 of these should also exist in the world. To many and it spreads out the PVP to much

 

[Eldrylars]

Heya guys, @yeelowsnow @Xhazed and any others lets keep feeding info on topic! Concerns about one group dominating are valid concerns so lets turn that concern into something productive and give your thoughts or suggestions on ways to help prevent it or to perhaps still reward solo's or anything on topic!

This is a big deal as it will certainly help the servers PVP side so any discussion on topic would be great!

 

[UltimateOptics]

Hey guys,
Wanted to post this here to get insight and concerns on the World PVP Hotspots from the community. Once the design doc is finalized and everything is accounted for - i'll push it hard to a (paid?) developer. The below post will be rewritten once ideas are concrete and set in stone.
-----------------------------------------------
[DRAFT]
Objective: Create World PVP hotspots on the map so that players can battle for control of rewards/currency/items/heroes XP every 5 minutes. Once a point is captured, it will announce the player (leader) that an outpost (with the name in the config) has been captured to the server (or herochat channel specified in the config) then it will enable a passive gain every 5 minutes for the configured amount.

In order to receive a reward, the players must be within the region/area where the objective is at. If another player party comes no one will receive rewards until only one team holds the point until capture.

The players will "capture" the control points and fill a meter / amount to gain control. If they leave the area, their meter/capture is reset or goes down.

Rewards:
Held for 5 minutes
100s
CommandSend (Sends any command given)
500xp
Held for 20 minutes
250s
1000XP
CommandSend
Held for 1 Hour
Configured something.

API/Integration Concerns:
WorldGuard - regions (so we can set any region to be used as an objective hotspot - there will be 4 around the map and it will be announced to let other players know about the passive gains.
Heroes - party system to track who's with who.

PVPOjective1:
    Region: Objective1
    Currency: 100
    HeroesXP: 500
    CommandReward: /give {player} Goldbar 1

Please note that there are code restrictions and limitations in everything so very advanced and complex systems may not be doable.

Nice idea but if i hasn't been mentioned yet boosting could be a big issue, maybe limit the amount of times the player can capture the region or something like that?

 

[Eldrylars]

@TheYeti curious about your dislike, If you care to explain.

The problem I see with the design above is it's not friendly to small players and the boost will be hard to manage, either to small or too large. With the above setup I would just head over to the control point with every member and just camp it for XP and Souls. It would be more profitable then mining/mobbing and if my group contains 10 players we could not be contested, at least not at this time. The same would go to whoever is the power house in the future.
I love the idea and have talked extensively about it, as well as played and dominated games that use similar system(Shadowbane, DFO,) but they all released systems that they spent tons of time developing and they were just plain not worth it or they were to worth it and no one but the strongest was ever able to have access. After too much time spent re-developing they finally released versions similar to what I am suggesting before succeeding in their attempt to make PVP hotspots with good enough rewards.

EDIT: I would say that if we are looking at this as "baby steps" then something is usually better then nothing, but if it's going to be a paid plugin design then it would be better to make sure you are covering all the bases you can ahead of time as you are most likely not going to want to pay for it a second time anytime soon!

 

[Dakinara]

@Kainzo I would not suggest any direct instant gains such as +XP or +Souls, I would also suggest not making these constant or on a exact timer.

I would suggest two types of control points that would be very similar code, to benefit all types of PVP players on the server.

For large control points I would suggest four different ones which provide a passive buff to a Township - Courage(Combat XP), Wisdom(Crafting XP), Wealth(Souls), and Brawn(Rare item boost). These would be small keeps/castle/structures that are defensible to the holding Township, regioned and possibly even have doors and switches that are setup to only function with the holding Township.

• These should not give a direct gain but a bonus % while being controlled. For instance, holding the Courage control point your township gains +10% xp gains from all combat actions while under control. While holding the Wealth control point your township gains +10% boost to soul drop chances...
• These control points should in my opinion and experience have a random timer between 4-8 hours that they become vulnerable. This timer will restart as soon as the control point is captured and be announced both when captured as well as 30 minutes before it becomes vulnerable. The previous owners of the control point can retake it, but it should take twice as long for them to capture the point for a second time in a row, to give a better chance the the raiding parties. When the timer is up, the controlling Township still maintains the buffs until another Township captures the control point.
  
• These control points should be very far apart, somewhere between the two sets of hero gates in each quadrant

Working along similar lines I would also suggest separate small control points which would be designed for individuals all the way up to Townships.

• These will work as automated mines, and shops. They will spawn items at random intervals which anyone can take. Examples would be an "Ore mine" will spawn Iron, Diamond, Emerald and Coal every 30-150 minutes. A "Trading Post" would spawn soul shards of various sizes and Quartz. The "Smithy" will spawn a random rare drop. The longer the timer runs the better the delivery.
  
• The owning Township will get 30 minute and 10 minute warning on item deliveries so they can have the advantage of knowing when a "shipment" is ready, but anyone can loot the shipment.
  
• The control points would become claimable every 3-6 hours. The current Township will retain ownership until another Township successfully claims the control point. It takes twice as long to claim the same control point if you already control it. This timer will restart as soon as the control point is captured and be announced both when captured as well as 30 minutes before it becomes vulnerable.
  
• I would think that 4 of these should also exist in the world. To many and it spreads out the PVP to much

i like both these ideas, my only issue is getting the capture timers right. I think there should always be some activity available that provides extra incentive to pvp - infact i think there should be multiple going at all times so that one town would have trouble simply moving from spot to spot to control everything. But i agree that having everything open to control change all the time is also not the answer. Regarding spreading pvp too thin, i am thinking in terms of a 150-200 online playerbase which admittedly not the current situation but a really good pvp system would do much to attract and maintain players on the server IMO.

 

[kk0707]

I love the idea of bringing something in to promote more pvp. However even if the system kicked on every other hour f, people in the morning would have a much greater chance of benefiting from the conquest areas due to there being less than 20 people on.. and only about 8-10 of those 20 being mastered classes.

I think that the areas should have a limited time frame per day, say 6-8 hours in which the system would kick on every other hour like said so above.

 

[Eldrylars]

i like both these ideas, my only issue is getting the capture timers right. I think there should always be some activity available that provides extra incentive to pvp - infact i think there should be multiple going at all times so that one town would have trouble simply moving from spot to spot to control everything. But i agree that having everything open to control change all the time is also not the answer. Regarding spreading pvp too thin, i am thinking in terms of a 150-200 online playerbase which admittedly not the current situation but a really good pvp system would do much to attract and maintain players on the server IMO.

That POST was considering that idea of always something going on. If there were 4 small and 4 major control points randomly firing from 150-200 minutes they would all work themselves into random times and would most likely rarely overlap.

One control captured! 30 minute warning message comes up about the next one about to go live!
Any more then 8 and there would be too many imo, any less and you would have to have them fire more often then I have seen work.

EDIT: Timing would be something to balance and consider and could easily be 60-120 minutes or 120-240 minutes. The main reason I posted was to demonstrate a different method of trying to tackle incentives and captures that I believe would be much more successful from my previous experience.

 

[Dakinara]

even though people will have an easier time in off hours, i think the system needs to be in effect 24/7. We seem to have a large number of players from parts of europe and other areas of the world and i think everyone should be able to participate when best for them regardless of time zones.

If it were ever developed that towns could be assaulted or something similar then thats more complicated, but the system as i have seen described thus far should just be 24/7 IMO.

 

[Eldrylars]

I think the Parties should be the ones rewarded not Townships. Also what happens when Parties are filled with people from more than one Town?

In my design the capture goes to the person standing on the capture point. So in a group you would have to decide who gets the capture.
In my examples below, our Kingdom would have to choose which one Township would get the claim when we are claiming in a group