Bible/come to Jesus

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

Blastoise jw did you memorize the bible? or the new testament?

Unfortunately I haven't memorized either... I would hope I could memorize both some day but I don't think I could retain that much knowledge and wisdom.

 

[me19584]

Exodus 22. Any explanations?

 

[Jmandudeguy]

In regard to the accuracy of the bible:

Take a look at Luke 3:1-2,

"In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar - when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, Herod the ruler of Galilee, his brother Philip the ruler of Iturea and Traconitis, and Lysanias ruler of Abilene - during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the Word of God came to John son Zechariah in the desert."

All of these people were real people and all of them have historical records of their existence. Luke wants the reader to know that it is historically accurate what he has written. For example in mythology we never see anything that points to historically accurate figures, but made up people. This points to the opposite.

Now to address those who have been wondering about the several transcriptions of the bible over the years, and how the different versions play an affect on the meaning of it. This is from the message that will be linked at the end of this post, and the pastor says that this is a list of ancient writings that historians consider trustworthy and accurate of what the original author intended:

• Julius Caesar - Gaelic Wars - 10 copies that still exist today - the gap between when the original was written and the copy was 1000 years. (remember this is considered historically accurate)
• Pliny the Elder - Natural History - 7 copies that still exist today - gap is around 750 years.
• Homer - Iliad - 600 copies that still exist today - gap is around 1000 years.
• The Bible - 24,000 copies (new testament) that still exist today - some copies date as close as 50 years to the original.

50 years... compared to the Iliad which is considered one of the most historically accurate books known to man, and the gap between the original and the copy was 1000 years.



Works Cited
Anderson, Jason, auth. "Is the Bible Trustworthy." EBC. N.p., 25 May 2013. web. 17 Jun 2013. <http://eaglebrookchurch.com/media-resources/weekend-messages/is-the-bible-trustworthy/>.

Your statements were well thought out and the entire paragraph addressed most of my complaints. I will rest my argument for now because you are one of the only intelligent Christians I have ever debated. I still would like to disagree seeing as there is only one source and it is a church website meaning it could be biased.

 

[me19584]

You must also consider the fact that the bedrock of the Christian faith is the new testament, as for the old personally I regard it add simply the story of the Jewish people. The atrocities, genocides, etc happened in the old testament. Just wanted to say this for the record.

When Jesus came to the world, he said that he would not change the laws and rules you find in the old testament. Only to free the world of sin. based on what he said, those atrocities are still supported by your god.

 

[HelsEch]

Your statements were well thought out and the entire paragraph addressed most of my complaints. I will rest my argument for now because you are one of the only intelligent Christians I have ever debated. I still would like to disagree seeing as there is only one source and it is a church website meaning it could be biased.

Yeah, I'm a realist and I don't question the historical accuracy of the New Testament, but similarly to Thomas Jefferson, other Theists of the Renaissance, Baroque, and Classical periods noted that the Catholic Bible is also filled with superstition and unrealistic happenings along side its very historical events.

pandaman7 It's also difficult to compare those texts, barring de Bello Gallico, to the Bible considering when the Mediterranean received access to paper. The Iliad takes place before 1000 BC which means at least 800 years before paper would be invented in China and find its way to Europe later. Also, while Greece and Rome maintained much of their knowledge, they didn't make many books, preferring word of mouth. It would be the Catholic Church, a large organization with common goals, to copy written history on a large scale after the medieval ages, which explains the gap in writing copies for de Bello Gallico and other famous stories like Beowulf. On the other hand the New Testament was grounded by its scripture and reinforced using the written words as an "unshakable" guide, though from the beginning there were divides between Orthodoxy and Catholicism and meetings over what books to have in the Bible, often ones that were written decades and even a couple centuries after the death of Christ.

 

[WoleverEntun]

The theological debates of the dark ages and middle ages are quite fascinating if you have time to look into them. I'll type some more comments when I can use a computer and not my phone.

 

[victim130]

Yeah, I'm a realist and I don't question the historical accuracy of the New Testament, but similarly to Thomas Jefferson, other Theists of the Renaissance, Baroque, and Classical periods noted that the Catholic Bible is also filled with superstition and unrealistic happenings along side its very historical events.

pandaman7 It's also difficult to compare those texts, barring de Bello Gallico, to the Bible considering when the Mediterranean received access to paper. The Iliad takes place before 1000 BC which means at least 800 years before paper would be invented in China and find its way to Europe later. Also, while Greece and Rome maintained much of their knowledge, they didn't make many books, preferring word of mouth. It would be the Catholic Church, a large organization with common goals, to copy written history on a large scale after the medieval ages, which explains the gap in writing copies for de Bello Gallico and other famous stories like Beowulf. On the other hand the New Testament was grounded by its scripture and reinforced using the written words as an "unshakable" guide, though from the beginning there were divides between Orthodoxy and Catholicism and meetings over what books to have in the Bible, often ones that were written decades and even a couple centuries after the death of Christ.

Honestly, only The Word of Helios Echelon is a real religion. Now lets all join in and cleanse ourselves of material possessions.

 

[Weikauno]

I'm just gonna say, very few people understand the bible, and that is why this thread cannot run how it should.

 

[WoleverEntun]

What you consider basic morals here are different from other places in the world because our western morals are based off of the Bible.

Just like everyone who disagreed with this. They clearly need basic history lessons and a better understanding of the good book.

 

[Acherous]

Just like everyone who disagreed with this. They clearly need basic history lessons and a better understanding of the good book.

I don't really see how I need a "basic history lesson". Good morals didn't come from god/religon. That's a completely asinine statement. They came from common sense. Western morals are often perceived as something that came from Christianity but I do not think that is the case.

 

[WoleverEntun]

I don't really see how I need a "basic history lesson". Good morals didn't come from god/religon. That's a completely asinine statement. They came from common sense. Western morals are often perceived as something that came from Christianity but I do not think that is the case.

Japanese soldiers during world war two thought it to be common sense to torture prisoners because they had surrendered. The Aztecs thought they had to make human sacrifices.

 

[globjako2]

Japanese soldiers during world war two thought it to be common sense to torture prisoners because they had surrendered. The Aztecs thought they had to make human sacrifices.

Christian crusaders thought that it would be common sense to eradicate the Muslims. Christians during the age of the Black Death thought that stoning Jews to death would cure the plague. Christians thought that it's common sense to kill your child if he/she is disobedient. Christians thought that it was common sense to argue other religions, but never look at the horror that is their own.

 

[Weikauno]

Christian crusaders thought that it would be common sense to eradicate the Muslims. Christians during the age of the Black Death thought that stoning Jews to death would cure the plague. Christians thought that it's common sense to kill your child if he/she is disobedient. Christians thought that it was common sense to argue other religions, but never look at the horror that is their own.

just because someone calls them self a christian doesn't mean they are a christian. Those people thought they were doing the right thing, but they weren't, and all that stuff they did was not God's way.

 

[victim130]

just because someone calls them self a christian doesn't mean they are a christian. Those people thought they were doing the right thing, but they weren't, and all that stuff they did was not God's way.

How would they know what God's Way was? How do we know when it changed? If it changed or for that matter, if we are currently correct about it? Speaking this "God's way" is pure ignorance. Its just some notion humans came up with to control.

 

[globjako2]

just because someone calls them self a christian doesn't mean they are a christian. Those people thought they were doing the right thing, but they weren't, and all that stuff they did was not God's way.

Youre saying the Pope Innocent (the one who wanted to eradicate the muslimes) wasn't a true Christian? I thought he was picked by god to represent him. lol seems legit

 

[WoleverEntun]

Love your enemy. Teachings of Jesus, obviously not followed by any of these so called 'Christians'..

 

[huntmoak]

I was raised a Christian for as long as I can remember. But since I was a kid I loved dinosaurs. I read about them and learned about how those who claim to have no religion thought they came about. My family was a very...calm Christian environment, We didn't regularly attend church, We didn't pray all the time, didn't say grace before dinner. And I had accepted that we had evolved and the big bang made everything. I was telling my mother about these things one night until she said "Honey, you know those things aren't real right? God made us, not the Big Bang" . I was shocked. It was the first time I had actually realized the problem. I always quietly though that if God made us, how did the Big bang make us? I then read more about Evolution, Not creationism, to Find out if God really did make us. And The science aspect is simple. Tell me one positive recorded mutation. Then, in the 1980's There was a survey. they took the photographs of 100 different randomly chosen people from the government files. They then chose more random people and asked them "Does this person look attractive to you?". There were obviously mixed results. But as they questioned them, they overlaid the photographs ans synched them to look as One person. One photograph male. And one Female. Then they askes the same question, All 100 Surveyed people answered "This is easily the most attractive of all photographs" . I moved schools a lot and whenever I arrived at a new one, everyone looked the same, I thought I would see pairs of twins and could barely tell the difference between most. The ones I observed were the "Attractive" People, Cheerleaders, Football players, etc. Most females dye their hair blonde, Why? To look like the others. They all want to lose weight, why? To look like the "Attractive" Females in magazines. If they all want to achieve the same look through Make up Weight, and hair color. They would, to most, Be more attractive. So, after that rambling. The key to evolution is MUTATIONS, As current science has observed no BENEFICIAL ones, Still, assume there are. The said group of mutated animals are here. They are NOT like the others, They look DIFFERENT, From what science and what sociology shows us. We want the specimens that look like the others as mates, After all they lack the bad mutations that are sure to be in every community. So if they look like the others, Those we KNOW aren't afflicted with a skin eating mutation, we want them as our Mothers and Fathers of our children.
That explains the mutation aspect of evolution, How we wouldn't mate with the mutated ones, But lets say we did.
The children inherit the parents' Mutations and ta-dah! He know has an arm-like appendage instead of a flipper, But...... Wait. Where are the Nerves that he needs to control the armlike appendage? After
Inherited memory, He knows not how to control it, even if he had nerves, He would be clumsy, and an Outcast. No one would want him to father their children, in fear of inheriting that strange thing that offers no benefits.
Then lets ask, Which eye evolved first? Left or Right? And these useless orbs sat around w/o blood flowing through them because the veins hadn't evolved yet, Just wait another 3,000 years, And lets say this species with useless orbs in their face survive. Hey now we have blood vessels in them! So now they will stay alive. and the orbs will be part of the body. But wait! We need Nerves, Rods, and Cones to interpret what we see! Then those rods and cones and "nerves have to be perfectly placed in the correct position to "see" Correctly. And we need the highly evolved brain to take the said images and use them.
This problem is applied to EVERY THING IN OUR BODIES. It is such a complicated system, It can't be formed piece by piece, unless in the safety of our mothers' wombs.
This disproves Evolution in my eyes. Now it's the Christians' Explanation for the Existence of life that seems more logical, "But the belief of a higher Deity is much more preposterous than believing in this incredibly long chain of Evolutions that took millions of years" To some, yes it is. But you aren't being OPEN MINDED, What?!!? No no, the Atheists are open minded because we reject what has been taught to us for thousands of years! Really? that seems very CLOSE MINDED to simply say you are open minded because you claim the other side is close minded for believing what has been taught to them for thousands of years.

After I came upon a few revelations that maybe the things I have been taught as a child in school were utter lies, and being fed to me, and I was so close minded to believe that what a teacher said is true, I questioned Evolution, and When I try to question this religious belief known as Christianity, I can't find anything wrong if I retain this faith in God.

But then I asked "Why did God make the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, if He knew Adam and Eve would eat from it? Why did he make Satan if he knew he would turn on him?" I then stood away from The Bible and Evolution, Until I read a book from a Christian author, and I read a simple sentence, "Because He gave us free will!" This Author is writing a fictional book, not preaching in a book/biography thing. It's the concept I found to be true. God gave Adam, Eve, and Satan FREE WILL, Adam could have turned the fruit away and obeyed God, but he CHOSE to eat it, "Eve was deceived though!" It was still her choice to eat from it, Satan could have stayed with god but chose to rebel, and lead God's children away from him. After acknowledging Free Will, Everything makes sense. Sure God did some things I don't know why he did, but I am not an Omnipotent, All knowing being, what He did could have affected further along in time, Heard of the butterfly effect? If you do something now, It's true effects may not show until decades or Centuries after you die.
Another question I asked but never really answered due to the fact of, It's just stupid to ask. "Where did God come from?" I have no idea, but to accept that he always was. The same way Evolutions accept that their Big bang matter always was.
And all this information was what I learned with out ever reading the Bible completely, I have read a few books here and there, and am not a "Crazy" Christian, I rarely even go to church, and Rarely even pray, but I accept that God made everything, and since that is what I believe, It is much easier to believe that Jesus is God's son and died for me.
The point of this is, Not to convert anyone, but to actually Look up things and think for your self, don't accept what this one guy says because he claims to be like you, or share your belief, Find out things on your own, don't assault the other side, don't accept what you are told, Atheist, Christian, or Whatever you are, Ask why and then find the answer, Not all questions can be answered, but one side will seem to hold more Truth.

 

[WoleverEntun]

Youre saying the Pope Innocent (the one who wanted to eradicate the muslimes) wasn't a true Christian? I thought he was picked by god to represent him. lol seems legit

Many clergymen of the time were corrupt and power seeking. He didn't have to be a good christian to become pope, just persuasive and influential.

 

[globjako2]

Many clergymen of the time were corrupt and power seeking. He didn't have to be a good christian to become pope, just persuasive and influential.

So he isn't chosen by God? Contradictory. From what I can find online, the Pope's election is God's choice.

 

[WoleverEntun]

So he isn't chosen by God? Contradictory. From what I can find online, the Pope's election is God's choice.

Once again you are looking at basic evidence taken out of context. You have to understand (As I have stated many times) the history of the church. When you make arrogant semi sarcastic comments trying to sound ever so logical you underline your poor understanding. bob_de_blastoise just say something if you find all this innapropriate on your thread.