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Bible/come to Jesus

WoleverEntun

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Location
Korea
Actually, it is. http://www.egyptorigins.org/osirisandjesus.htm
Jesus is just a remake of Osiris. Watch Religulous on Netflix. Very insightful documentary, and it briefly discusses Osiris and why Jesus is just made after him. Obviously you wont, but lets just pretend like you will.

I have never heard of anyone denying the historical existence of a Jesus in the first century BC, living in Nazareth. His story of resurrection is different from the historical persona. Your little jibe at the end doesn't help your arguement either, rather it devalues it.
from wikipedia: (you can follow the references if you want:
Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed,[1][2][3][4] and although there is little agreement on the historicity of gospel narratives and their theological assertions of his divinity,[5][6][7][8] biblical scholars and classical historians regard theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted.[9][10][11] Most scholars agree that Jesus was a Galilean Jew who was born between 7 and 2 BC and died 30–36 AD.[12][13][14] Most scholars hold that Jesus lived in Galilee and Judea, did not preach or study elsewhere[15][16][17] and that he spoke Aramaic and may have also spoken Hebrew and possibly Greek.[18][19][20] Although scholars differ on the reconstruction of the specific episodes of the life of Jesus, the two events whose historicity is subject to "almost universal assent" are that he was baptized by John the Baptist and shortly afterwards was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate.[21][22][23][24]
 

Acherous

Moderator
Legacy Supporter 9
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Location
Houston
It is very hard to convince someone who believes that the bible is not true that God created the heavens and the Earth. So I'm going to try to do my best to explain what I believe without using the bible as the complete basis of my argument. With that being said, there are simply two ways that the Earth was made and life began. That either evolution is true or there was a creator. There are no third options.

So lets evaluate the theory of evolution first. The idea is that life began with two non-living particles that turned into living, breathing, beings, which then turned into our supposed ancestors - the screaming apes. Continuing on this aspect, the theory continues saying that 4 billion years ago after the 'big bang' an ocean formed (somehow) and out of that arose a non-living particle called an amino acid. And eventually arose another impersonal, non-living amino acid, and over time eventually turned into a living cell, and over more time turned into algae and amoebas, and even more time turned into amphibians and personal humans. This means that these non-living particles turned into all the life that we know today. Atheist and author Thomas Nagel puts it this way, "It is highly implausible that life as we know it is the result of physical accidents and chance."

If evolution is true, then us humans, are simply animals that are just living here on the earth with no purpose to life at all. However, if evolution is false, then humans have a purpose and they have characteristics such as love and relationships, which clearly humans share. This is one of the primary reasons why I have banked my life off of creationism and the bible.

So continuing from the last part, a clear disproval of evolution comes with the word "Biogenesis". This simply means the beginning of life. This is a scientific law that nearly all scientists confirm and it states that life does not arise from non-living matter. So think about that...it makes sense no? A rock cannot produce life with another rock. This has been proven true, yet evolutionists claim that life began from two non-living particles completely contradicting the law of Biogenesis. Scientists openly admit that it is simply not possible, but they say that it MUST have happened...somehow. This is a huge flaw in the theory of evolution.

Another key word to bring up is Entropy. Many of you have probably heard of this word, but for those of you who have not it is the scientific law that when things are left to chance they will deteriorate and break down, rather than organize. But, evolution says the complete opposite, that when left to chance things will organize. Now to paint a picture of this, I want all of you to think of your rooms. Lets say, when left to chance over time, does your room become more organized? Or does it begin to deteriorate? I'm assuming that most would have to agree that it would simply become more messy. This is another huge flaw that evolutionists have to battle with.

Now lets take a look at the information that fossils give. Darwin himself stated in his book, "Geology does not reveal any graduated organic chain. This is the most obvious and serious objection which can be leveled against the theory." There has been a huge lack of intermediary fossils found to help prove the theory of evolution. Fossil records show fully formed organisms not fish with legs or wolves with fins, but fully formed fish and wolves. There are no signs of progression found in the fossil records. Genesis 1:24 states, "God made every living thing to reproduce after its own kind." Though many of you may question this, simply because of the skulls and fragments of skulls that might have belonged to intermediary apes/humans. Take a look at the Lucy Skull, the bones that were supposed to prove that humans derived from apes, discovered in 1974 by Donald Johanson. Johanson later stated that it was actually an apes skull. The fossil record is an unresolvable problem for the evolution theory.

So why do scientists believe this theory? If it is scientifically disproven in so many ways? Dr. George Wall, a professor at Harvard University, a Biology Nobel Prize winner also an atheist wrote this, "When it comes to the origin of life, there's only two possibilities, either through the process of evolution or a supernatural act of God. There is no third possibility. Evolution, the idea that life arose from non-living matter was scientifically disproved 140 years ago, but that leaves only one possibility; that life arose by a supernatural creative act of God. But I will not accept that philosophically, because I do not believe in God. Therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is scientifically impossible." He is saying that the theory of evolution is simply a philosophical belief, not a scientific theory.

Scientist Fred Hoyle says this, "The probability of evolution being true is the same probability of a tornado weeping through a junkyard and forming at the other end a Boeing 747." That's the probability of evolution. So to those of you glob/others who may not believe in the bible or a divine creator, I just ask that you rethink the theory of evolution. Look at what science has to show on the issue, and simply consider the one and only other possibility.

Acherous

Works Cited
Merritt, Bob, auth. "Is Evolution True?." Eagle Brook Church, 5 May 2013. web. 14 Jun 2013. <http://eaglebrookchurch.com/media-resources/weekend-messages/is-evolution-true/>.

I've skimmed through your post and I disagree with many of your points. It has however helped me understand this god delusion you all live under. But, as I said before I will not be derailing bobs thread anymore. As such I will be refraining from posting and keep to my promise.

WoleverEntun Highly unnecessary. lol. Theres a reason f-palm, bad spelling, and other ratings were taken away. Lets not get disagree taken away. Thanks.
 

pandaman7

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
I've skimmed through your post and I disagree with many of your points. It has however helped me understand this god delusion you all live under. But, as I said before I will not be derailing bobs thread anymore. As such I will be refraining from posting and keep to my promise.

My only concern is that you read the whole thing before discussing or disagreeing with me. But it's your choice whether you want to do that.
 

Acherous

Moderator
Legacy Supporter 9
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Location
Houston
My only concern is that you read the whole thing before discussing or disagreeing with me. But it's your choice whether you want to do that.

My reason for only skimming is that I do not want to get myself riled up into posting on this thread like I was before. Bob doesn't want me posting my opinion here and I won't. Your post was very well written and I respect that but I was asked to not share my opinion on this thread.
 

globjako2

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Location
Staten Island, New York
I have never heard of anyone denying the historical existence of a Jesus in the first century BC, living in Nazareth. His story of resurrection is different from the historical persona. Your little jibe at the end doesn't help your arguement either, rather it devalues it.
from wikipedia: (you can follow the references if you want:
Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed,[1][2][3][4] and although there is little agreement on the historicity of gospel narratives and their theological assertions of his divinity,[5][6][7][8] biblical scholars and classical historians regard theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted.[9][10][11] Most scholars agree that Jesus was a Galilean Jew who was born between 7 and 2 BC and died 30–36 AD.[12][13][14] Most scholars hold that Jesus lived in Galilee and Judea, did not preach or study elsewhere[15][16][17] and that he spoke Aramaic and may have also spoken Hebrew and possibly Greek.[18][19][20] Although scholars differ on the reconstruction of the specific episodes of the life of Jesus, the two events whose historicity is subject to "almost universal assent" are that he was baptized by John the Baptist and shortly afterwards was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate.[21][22][23][24]

They agree that he could have existed, just like God could exist. It's not possible to determine that Jesus actually existed because all records of him were written DECADES after his death. That's no very reliable. My little jibe at the end was reverse psychology to get you to watch the documentary.
http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/q...between-jesus-christ-and-horus-and-other-gods
Another savior who is parallel to Jesus. This one is the closest yet. I suggest we all say grace and praise Horace for our meals. Although it isn't very catchy...
 

victim130

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
globjako2 is right, though many cultures have been known to share similarities. Such as Angels and Demons. Of which dated much much farther back than Christianity. A man named Jesus may have existed, but his story is most likely fabricated. Lots of Egyptian hieroglyphs depict tons of religious events (Or rather, ideas) that fit into both Asian cultures and European. That's not to mention even earlier civilizations such as the Mesopotamians. Now I don't have any information to back me on hand, but I'm sure you can search for it.
 

WoleverEntun

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Location
Korea
globjako2 is right, though many cultures have been known to share similarities. Such as Angels and Demons. Of which dated much much farther back than Christianity. A man named Jesus may have existed, but his story is most likely fabricated. Lots of Egyptian hieroglyphs depict tons of religious events (Or rather, ideas) that fit into both Asian cultures and European. That's not to mention even earlier civilizations such as the Mesopotamians. Now I don't have any information to back me on hand, but I'm sure you can search for it.
Jospehus mentioned Jesus in his writings on the antiquitys of the Jews in 93 AD, A mere 30 years after Jesus's death. Also Tacitus's Annals (earlier than 116AD) are an important independant source (Roman) that makes record of Jesus's execution. As I mentioned before and will restate, anyone with even a shred of knowledge on this time does not refute Jesus's birth, baptism, and finally execution.
 

globjako2

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Location
Staten Island, New York
Jospehus mentioned Jesus in his writings on the antiquitys of the Jews in 93 AD, A mere 30 years after Jesus's death. Also Tacitus's Annals (earlier than 116AD) are an important independant source (Roman) that makes record of Jesus's execution. As I mentioned before and will restate, anyone with even a shred of knowledge on this time does not refute Jesus's birth, baptism, and finally execution.

If there is not primary source for his existence, then you can't assume that he existed. Find me an actual writing written by someone of the time that mentions him and everyone shall believe you. Until then, you can only guess.
 

WoleverEntun

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Location
Korea
I think this is a good quote to sum up the teachings of Jesus, and one that shows their worth
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
 

KleenX

Iron
Joined
May 24, 2013
I believe that Humans are here for a purpose and that all of world as we know it did not happen on accident. That being said, I think that Christianity is pure bullshit. So is the bible. So is pretty much every other religion out there. Religion was created to give more people power over others and to make people have Hope. Governments used religion to keep their people in check. I especially dislike Christianity because the only reason it is "popular" today is not because of its message, which has completely changed btw but because the pope used to have so much power over people's lives. Since then the pope has dictated less and less of our lives until Christianity is non-existent.

The main flaw with even believing in a creator is that how was God created? Did God just randomly appear, decide to create a world with living breathing things that worship him? The whole start of the universe as we know it is so mind boggling and I doubt Humans will ever find a conclusion without looking in a time machine.

I do like one message many religions have. That is to become a better person. I believe that if God was an all loving God he would accept me for my differences and sins. As long as I try to become a better person and live my live how I want to live it, without hurting others, then I think God has no reason not to accept me into this "heaven". I don't think that whether or not you believe in God/waste your time following a book. in church, that most likely had no influence from God and therefor should not be called the book of good.

TL:DR: We shouldn't care about God. If he wanted something from us he should of asked. If God is what people make Him out to be then he should be accepting of people whether or not they go to church, as long as they are good people. History wrote the Bible. Not God.

Edit: Sorry if this is not the place for what I am discussing. I am actually sort of looking for answers. If you can explain the flaws in religion, as negative as I may seem, then I will gladly accept them. I am just a normal teen doubting the many ways of life that have been forced on me.
 

globjako2

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Feb 17, 2013
Location
Staten Island, New York
I believe that Humans are here for a purpose and that all of world as we know it did not happen on accident. That being said, I think that Christianity is pure bullshit. So is the bible. So is pretty much every other religion out there. Religion was created to give more people power over others and to make people have Hope. Governments used religion to keep their people in check. I especially dislike Christianity because the only reason it is "popular" today is not because of its message, which has completely changed btw but because the pope used to have so much power over people's lives. Since then the pope has dictated less and less of our lives until Christianity is non-existent.

The main flaw with even believing in a creator is that how was God created? Did God just randomly appear, decide to create a world with living breathing things that worship him? The whole start of the universe as we know it is so mind boggling and I doubt Humans will ever find a conclusion without looking in a time machine.

I do like one message many religions have. That is to become a better person. I believe that if God was an all loving God he would accept me for my differences and sins. As long as I try to become a better person and live my live how I want to live it, without hurting others, then I think God has no reason not to accept me into this "heaven". I don't think that whether or not you believe in God/waste your time following a book. in church, that most likely had no influence from God and therefor should not be called the book of good.

TL:DR: We shouldn't care about God. If he wanted something from us he should of asked. If God is what people make Him out to be then he should be accepting of people whether or not they go to church, as long as they are good people. History wrote the Bible. Not God.

Edit: Sorry if this is not the place for what I am discussing. I am actually sort of looking for answers. If you can explain the flaws in religion, as negative as I may seem, then I will gladly accept them. I am just a normal teen doubting the many ways of life that have been forced on me.

Yeah, Falker pretty much gets it.
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
globjako2 You can't bring Westboro into this. Although they claim to be Christian, they're interpretation of the Bible is far to extreme for them to even see the love God has and the plan God has.
As to your question why you should believe me, if you were to pull up the whole bible, and ctrl+f love, the results would be immense. If you read through them to find the ones about how Jesus and the Lord love everyone, those results too would be massive.

Agreed, modeling christianity around how the idiots at Westboro is like modeling Islam around the terrorists who caused 9/11
 
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