Bible/come to Jesus

[ShadowWolfEX_3]

Even though I don't practice Christianity, I still believe in god [-_-]

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

Check Mathew 25:46 also in the old testement we know that Enoch and Elijah were raised into heaven.
Here is something about Hell
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Revelation 20:14
When Christ returns where everyone was who died before (who were not covered by Christ's blood) will be thrown from death and hell into the lake of fire, which is where they will spend eternity.

Also heres some more support that people will spend eternity in either Hell or Heaven
"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:2

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

Even though I don't practice Christianity, I still believe in god [-_-]

The devil and his demons believe in God( they know that he is real ) and they tremble in his presence.

 

[Weikauno]

Check Mathew 25:46 also in the old testement we know that Enoch and Elijah were raised into heaven.
Here is something about Hell
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Revelation 20:14
When Christ returns where everyone was who died before (who were not covered by Christ's blood) will be thrown from death and hell into the lake of fire, which is where they will spend eternity.

Also heres some more support that people will spend eternity in either Hell or Heaven
"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:2

Matthew 25:46 is talking about eternal life, but it's in the Kingdom of God on Earth, in the future. It does not say anything about heaven in that verse.

here's about elijah, presented by my church: http://www.ucg.org/beyond-today-daily/doctrinal-beliefs/elijah-proves-rapture

and here's on Enoch:http://www.ucg.org/booklet/heaven-a...ven-gods-reward-righteous/was-enoch-taken-he/

And with Revelation 20:14 you gotta look at what happens before that. The first resurrection happens, which is the resurrection of the faithful in God, and A millennium is taken to prepare the Earth for what is the second resurrection. The second resurrection is when all people who lived in all the Earth are given a second chance, to get to know God and live His way, in a new world run by God. Then there is the third resurrection, which is the resurrection of the people who were shown God's way and despised it, and they will be cast into the lake of fire, along with any people in the second resurrection who despise God's way and reject it, to be wiped from existence. Then comes this verse. "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. -Revelation 20:14. This is the elimination of death and suffering thus completing the mission of saving the world. And all the people who chose to follow God will become part of God's family, and become a spirit being.

edit: and notice, in Daniel 12:2 it says they are asleep, and shall [fill in the blank], indicating that is in the future

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

Matthew 25:46 is talking about eternal life, but it's in the Kingdom of God on Earth, in the future. It does not say anything about heaven in that verse.

here's about elijah, presented by my church: http://www.ucg.org/beyond-today-daily/doctrinal-beliefs/elijah-proves-rapture

and here's on Enoch:http://www.ucg.org/booklet/heaven-a...ven-gods-reward-righteous/was-enoch-taken-he/

And with Revelation 20:14 you gotta look at what happens before that. The first resurrection happens, which is the resurrection of the faithful in God, and A millennium is taken to prepare the Earth for what is the second resurrection. The second resurrection is when all people who lived in all the Earth are given a second chance, to get to know God and live His way, in a new world run by God. Then there is the third resurrection, which is the resurrection of the people who were shown God's way and despised it, and they will be cast into the lake of fire, along with any people in the second resurrection who despise God's way and reject it, to be wiped from existence. Then comes this verse. "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. -Revelation 20:14. This is the elimination of death and suffering thus completing the mission of saving the world. And all the people who chose to follow God will become part of God's family, and become a spirit being.

edit: and notice, in Daniel 12:2 it says they are asleep, and shall [fill in the blank], indicating that is in the future

Could you maybe put in a few verses about the third revelation? I haven't really read Revelation through and through. Thanks!

I noticed in the link related to Enoch that the writer referred that the New American Standard Version explained it better. Has the writer of these 2 pages studied Greek and Hebrew? Modern translations can be a little misleading on some things, Such as a modern translation using "love" each time when in fact the language it was written in used three different words with slightly different meanings, but were just put as love in the modern language.

Also as to the one relating to Elijah. I believe the three different heavens each had a word in the original language. I'm not sure on this but I think it would be worthwhile to see if this is true and if so find which one was mentioned in that verse.

I haven't put much thought into these subjects before you brought them up. I'm thankful you did so that I may dig deeper in and better represent the bible in its truth. I'll ask around some of the people I know and get their opinions on it. Thanks for giving me something to think about!

 

[Weikauno]

Could you maybe put in a few verses about the third revelation? I haven't really read Revelation through and through. Thanks!

I noticed in the link related to Enoch that the writer referred that the New American Standard Version explained it better. Has the writer of these 2 pages studied Greek and Hebrew? Modern translations can be a little misleading on some things, Such as a modern translation using "love" each time when in fact the language it was written in used three different words with slightly different meanings, but were just put as love in the modern language.

Also as to the one relating to Elijah. I believe the three different heavens each had a word in the original language. I'm not sure on this but I think it would be worthwhile to see if this is true and if so find which one was mentioned in that verse.

I haven't put much thought into these subjects before you brought them up. I'm thankful you did so that I may dig deeper in and better represent the bible in its truth. I'll ask around some of the people I know and get their opinions on it. Thanks for giving me something to think about!

Here's my church's big article about the whole subject, this'll provide you with some verses and better explanations than my simplified version
http://www.ucg.org/booklet/book-revelation-unveiled/destruction-satans-kingdom/

edit: answer to question: "Has the writer of these 2 pages studied Greek and Hebrew?", yes, our church has people who work to find answers to confusing things in the bible, such as that(misinterpretations by translators). We always do our research before confirming something into our church.

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

Here's my church's big article about the whole subject, this'll provide you with some verses and better explanations than my simplified version
http://www.ucg.org/booklet/book-revelation-unveiled/destruction-satans-kingdom/

edit: answer to question: "Has the writer of these 2 pages studied Greek and Hebrew?", yes, our church has people who work to find answers to confusing things in the bible, such as that(misinterpretations by translators). We always do our research before confirming something into our church.

Kk thanks for the info I'll be sure to read up on it tomorrow. I'm going to bed now.Just one more question on a kind of controversial doctrine. Does your church and you believe in the doctrine of election?

 

[Weikauno]

Kk thanks for the info I'll be sure to read up on it tomorrow. I'm going to bed now.Just one more question on a kind of controversial doctrine. Does your church and you believe in the doctrine of election?

We believe that all are called, but at different times, in many different ways. We believe all people have a chance for eternal life, and a good one at that if they are cooperative The second resurrection is for all those people who weren't called in their life prior to the Kingdom.

 

[Fjordsen]

God is the single biggest mass murderer in history, if he actually exist that is. He is obviously not perfect and is the biggest sinner of us all (Worse than Hitler, worse than Stalin, worse than Mao). The bible itself is soaked in blood and his servants are no better. Even today, jews are mirroring the nazis in how they treat Palestinians just because som old book tells them that the land they haven't lived in for 2000 years is theirs. Though the biggest sin of all is perhaps that he judges humans for their religion, not their character.

Also, if you believe the earth is closer to 8000 years old rather than 4000 million then God knows what the hell you're smoking.

 

[Weikauno]

God is the single biggest mass murderer in history, if he actually exist that is. He is obviously not perfect and is the biggest sinner of us all (Worse than Hitler, worse than Stalin, worse than Mao). The bible itself is soaked in blood and his servants are no better. Even today, jews are mirroring the nazis in how they treat Palestinians just because som old book tells them that the land they haven't lived in for 2000 years is theirs. Though the biggest sin of all is perhaps that he judges humans for their religion, not their character.

Also, if you believe the earth is closer to 8000 years old rather than 4000 million then God knows what the hell you're smoking.

God doesn't judge people by their religion.

"The nice thing about Christianity that a lot of Christians probably don't know is that it supports people who do good and live life well and are caring people.

Ro 2:14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
Ro 2:15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.

just a little insight on that. "

And again, if God exists, so what if He takes back what He has given? He created it, so He has the right to take it away.

 

[Jackrox256]

God doesn't judge people by their religion.


And again, if God exists, so what if He takes back what He has given? He created it, so He has the right to take it away.

Your first statement is completely and utterly wrong. According to your God if we do not specifically believe in him and the particular religion that he himself prefers then we do not deserve to live in heaven. If I were to save the entire Earth from destruction but was an atheist, God, if he were to abide in his own established rules within your bible, would deny me access to heaven.

Your second statement is disgusting. According to you mothers would have the right to do whatever they wish with their children. According to you my mother and father, as they created me, have the right to throw me off a cliff. Perhaps in your view 'God created me' not my parents. But they had a part in creating life so therefore should have the right to take it away?

Giving life does not permit the right to take it. In my opinion that is the most disgusting and horrible rationalization that a Christian could make in defense of their supposed God. Please reevaluate your morality before saying such a sickening statement again.

 

[Weikauno]

1.)Your first statement is completely and utterly wrong. According to your God if we do not specifically believe in him and the particular religion that he himself prefers then we do not deserve to live in heaven. If I were to save the entire Earth from destruction but was an atheist, God, if he were to abide in his own established rules within your bible, would deny me access to heaven.

2.)Your second statement is disgusting. According to you mothers would have the right to do whatever they wish with their children. According to you my mother and father, as they created me, have the right to throw me off a cliff. Perhaps in your view 'God created me' not my parents. But they had a part in creating life so therefore should have the right to take it away?

Giving life does not permit the right to take it. In my opinion that is the most disgusting and horrible rationalization that a Christian could make in defense of their supposed God. Please reevaluate your morality before saying such a sickening statement again.

1.)That is not true. Maybe you were informed of this by a lot of "Christians", but this is proven wrong by Romans 2:14-15, I put the evidence right there, did you not read?

2.)God has the power to raise people from the dead. Do anything He wants to. And according to the bible, He will raise all from the dead at a later time and give them a chance for eternal life. So if He kills people, they aren't gone forever. He can still revive them, do whatever. Human beings cannot revive other human beings. And with that, you should not take what you cannot give back, and that is the important difference.

 

[Jackrox256]

1.)That is not true. Maybe you were informed of this by a lot of "Christians", but this is proven wrong by Romans 2:14-15, I put the evidence right there, did you not read?

2.)God has the power to raise people from the dead. Do anything He wants to. And according to the bible, He will raise all from the dead at a later time and give them a chance for eternal life. So if He kills people, they aren't gone forever. He can still revive them, do whatever. Human beings cannot revive other human beings. And with that, you should not take what you cannot give back, and that is the important difference.

1) Sorry, misinterpreted the verse there but if that is so then I ask this: Why should I worship God and be good rather than just being good? The hell/heaven thing is used a ridiculous amount as a fear factor to get people to be good, but if one is just good why is it necessary to worship God?

2) That is malicious. If I were able to heal a man's broken bones does that give me the right to break them? No of course not, broken bones are painful. It is by its very nature considered a thing to avoid because of that fact. God killing and reviving a person is no different then that. I promise that every man, woman and child God has murdered did feel some form of pain, panic, torment or regret. What kind of perfect being believes that is a good thing? That is a disgusting thing to believe is right. It seems the Bible forces a strict sense of a moral code but the role model, in which is God, breaks it at every opportunity. If they are but examples in which we should not act then that is what the Bible is: a story that teaches what is right or wrong. Not truth, not fact and not a history book. Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and the Inheritance Cycle series I am currently reading teach me what is right from wrong in the form of stories. But I do not believe Dragons, Wizards and Hobbits are real because of them. Why should a 2000 year old book written by men living is a desert be considered any different?

Yet another disgusting rationalization that once again makes me understand just how cruel and sadistic your religion is. It seems that the Bible has two common themes: You cannot do this because it is wrong, but God can do this because he is God. That is your, and every other Christians' argument to every question I have asked in relation to God and his atrocities.

 

[Weikauno]

1) Sorry, misinterpreted the verse there but if that is so then I ask this: Why should I worship God and be good rather than just being good? The hell/heaven thing is used a ridiculous amount as a fear factor to get people to be good, but if one is just good why is it necessary to worship God?

2) That is malicious. If I were able to heal a man's broken bones does that give me the right to break them? No of course not, broken bones are painful. It is by its very nature considered a thing to avoid because of that fact. God killing and reviving a person is no different then that. I promise that every man, woman and child God has murdered did feel some form of pain, panic, torment or regret. What kind of perfect being believes that is a good thing? That is a disgusting thing to believe is right. It seems the Bible forces a strict sense of a moral code but the role model, in which is God, breaks it at every opportunity. If they are but examples in which we should not act then that is what the Bible is: a story that teaches what is right or wrong. Not truth, not fact and not a history book. Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and the Inheritance Cycle series I am currently reading teach me what is right from wrong in the form of stories. But I do not believe Dragons, Wizards and Hobbits are real because of them. Why should a 2000 year old book written by men living is a desert be considered any different?

Yet another disgusting rationalization that once again makes me understand just how cruel and sadistic your religion is. It seems that the Bible has two common themes: You cannot do this because it is wrong, but God can do this because he is God. That is your, and every other Christians' argument to every question I have asked in relation to God and his atrocities.

1.)Being good is the greatest worship of God, even if you don't intend it. It pleases Him more than anything, so that is that.

2.)God doesn't harm people for no reason. Pain, is a very powerful teaching tool, and punishment is a part of learning, because of mistakes. God doesn't just kill people to kill people. He has a reason for everything, and will make everything good in the end, supposing God is real and the bible is correct. He plans to give everyone eternal life, and isn't that worth dying for? Worth some wear and tear before utter absence of all evil, no more crying, no more tears, eerything good and happy, isn't that worth the sacrifice? Roads to goals will always have their pains and challenges, but in the end, it's worth it.

 

[Fjordsen]

1.)Being good is the greatest worship of God, even if you don't intend it. It pleases Him more than anything, so that is that.

2.)God doesn't harm people for no reason. Pain, is a very powerful teaching tool, and punishment is a part of learning, because of mistakes. God doesn't just kill people to kill people. He has a reason for everything, and will make everything good in the end, supposing God is real and the bible is correct. He plans to give everyone eternal life, and isn't that worth dying for? Worth some wear and tear before utter absence of all evil, no more crying, no more tears, eerything good and happy, isn't that worth the sacrifice? Roads to goals will always have their pains and challenges, but in the end, it's worth it.

"Pain is a powerful teaching tool(...) God doesn't kill people just to kill, he has his reasons"

Ok now you are justifying murder and torture. If a regular christian has this extreme beliefs, I am afraid religion indeed is the cancer of this world.

 

[Weikauno]

"Pain is a powerful teaching tool(...) God doesn't kill people just to kill, he has his reasons"

Ok now you are justifying murder and torture. If a regular christian has this extreme beliefs, I am afraid religion indeed is the cancer of this world.

look if you give someone something and then take it away and give them something infinitely better, is that considered mean?

edit: ok, let's put this on a smaller scale perspective.

So, let's look at it like HC, life is the server, God is the owner of said server. He controls everything in it, much like Kainzo controls everything in HC. So does he have the right to ban people? yes, it's his server, he owns it, he created it and he can kick you out if he wants to.

 

[Jackrox256]

look if you give someone something and then take it away and give them something infinitely better, is that considered mean?

We are not talking about taking away a possession like an Xbox, this is a life. We are talking about murder, death, and a whole lot of pain. If God sent a man to chop your hand off because you raised it to one of his priests or some such nonsense would that be an accurate definition of your logic? Because God has done a whole lot of worse things than that, he has murdered countless people for petty, childish and horrific reasons.

I can promise you if I chopped off your hand and replaced it with a robotic one that could crush steel you would be pretty pissed off. After all I could have sedated you first, and given you said hand without nearly as much pain. That is God's kindness: cleaving you apart so you can live in a world that is perfect for you after he sent you to a world that is not perfect for you.

Doing cruel things to have the opportunity to do nice things does not make you good, it makes you cruel.

 

[Weikauno]

We are not talking about taking away a possession like an Xbox, this is a life. We are talking about murder, death, and a whole lot of pain. If God sent a man to chop your hand off because you raised it to one of his priests or some such nonsense would that be an accurate definition of your logic? Because God has done a whole lot of worse things than that, he has murdered countless people for petty, childish and horrific reasons.

I can promise you if I chopped off your hand and replaced it with a robotic one that could crush steel you would be pretty pissed off. After all I could have sedated you first, and given you said hand without nearly as much pain. That is God's kindness: cleaving you apart so you can live in a world that is perfect for you after he sent you to a world that is not perfect for you.

Doing cruel things to have the opportunity to do nice things does not make you good, it makes you cruel.

So, if I cause any pain or torment to someone, even to save their life, I am cruel for hurting them, even though what I did saved them a lot of pain? That is what your logic says.

edit: even to save their life/improve their existence drastically

edit2:I mean really, would you not want to die once, and live forever afterwards? I mean that's the deal. Because seems fair to me, God gave us everything so a little bad(it's a little compared to the good) isn't that bad, is it?
For example, you can't get a shot without getting stabbed by a needle, it's part of the process. And, getting a cure for a horrible disease is better than not curing it and not getting stabbed by a needle, isn't it?

p.s.: I've always wanted a robotic hand.

 

[Jackrox256]

So, if I cause any pain or torment to someone, even to save their life, I am cruel for hurting them, even though what I did saved them a lot of pain? That is what your logic says.

edit: even to save their life/improve their existence drastically

No you are not cruel for save or improve my life by causing me pain, assuming you do not ignore the opportunity to spare me some pain while doing so. Say by amputating my leg to save my body.

But to seem to be ignoring my pain argument. God seems to go out of his way to put us in horrible situations and by causing us severe amounts of pain and suffering to make a point and teach us a lesson. He is meant to be completely good but he commits evil to further his goals.

The promise of eternal bliss does not justify putting limited life through pain and suffering and then if they do not perform to your expectations send them to eternal torment. It is contradictory to the conception that God is supposed to be perfectly good to make such an imperfect and evil system of rule.

Being all powerful does not give you the right to condemn a man to death and eternal torment. God seems to just be a being drunk on power. Evil is measured by acts and if I were look at the acts of God he would be evil. Which contradicts the Bible, which contradicts Christianity.

God is contradictory to himself. As I have stated, God is not worthy of worship. This may be insulting but he is an evil, disgusting existence if he exists at all. Yet despite his acts he is considered good for some stupid reason.

 

[Weikauno]

No you are not cruel for save or improve my life by causing me pain, assuming you do not ignore the opportunity to spare me some pain while doing so. Say by amputating my leg to save my body.

But to seem to be ignoring my pain argument. God seems to go out of his way to put us in horrible situations and by causing us severe amounts of pain and suffering to make a point and teach us a lesson. He is meant to be completely good but he commits evil to further his goals.

The promise of eternal bliss does not justify putting limited life through pain and suffering and then if they do not perform to your expectations send them to eternal torment. It is contradictory to the conception that God is supposed to be perfectly good to make such an imperfect and evil system of rule.

Being all powerful does not give you the right to condemn a man to death and eternal torment. God seems to just be a being drunk on power. Evil is measured by acts and if I were look at the acts of God he would be evil. Which contradicts the Bible, which contradicts Christianity.

God is contradictory to himself. As I have stated, God is not worthy of worship. This may be insulting but he is an evil, disgusting existence if he exists at all. Yet despite his acts he is considered good for some stupid reason.

Have you not read all that we have been talking about? That there is no eternal torment? If you were paying a little more attention, you would see that I mentioned people who do not obey are just deleted from existence? They aren't tormented for eternity. And even that is for people who just utterly don't care, and don't even try to cooperate. And all this stuff about "Christianity is bad because it doesn't judge people by their character but by their religion" is all crap, because in all these comments you are judging all Christians by their religion. And anyways, why do you even care to argue the matter? If you have an opinion and don't have a goal to change it, then why ask questions that you don't need the answer to? So you can better persecute someone's beliefs? You guys talk about being all good and moral and that, yet you try your best to put someone else's beliefs down. I don't understand that. What you say contradicts itself as you say it, so what do you have on me that I don't have on you? Nothing. We are equal and this argument is pointless. So this stuff needs to stop, because it's not gonna get anyone anywhere. As I have mentioned many many times on this thread, I will believe what I will believe, and you will believe what you will believe. You don't know me, and I don't know you, in the real world. I will not judge you, as I hope you will not judge me. In the end, nothing is proven except that nothing can be proven in this argument. So, stop asking questions that have no correct answer by you. Just leave us alone, will you, because we don't agree with you and you don't agree with us, and nothing's going to change that in the time being. We're wasting a lot of time on this pointless crap.