Bible/come to Jesus

[Fjordsen]

The bible doesn't say that... Ben Franklin did. But it does say that "If a man doesn't work, neither shall he eat."

If that man was, by some strange will of God, born with a physical or mental injury/illness that didn't let him work, should he starve?

If a man is permanently disabled in an accident during work, does he deserve to "not eat"?

I believe people should work as far as they're able, but I also believe that everyone in society has a responsibility to make sure that all members of society no matter how low or poor has the same opportunities as everyone else. This is why welfare excist and is why I support it, because we need to help our fellow humans and share the resources we have to make sure all can prosper.

The "self-made" ideology is an egoistic way of life that puts millions in poverty and a small percentage in huge wealth.

 

[Kainzo]

Survival of the fittest can be a scary thing.

 

[Weikauno]

If that man was, by some strange will of God, born with a physical or mental injury/illness that didn't let him work, should he starve?

If a man is permanently disabled in an accident during work, does he deserve to "not eat"?

I believe people should work as far as they're able, but I also believe that everyone in society has a responsibility to make sure that all members of society no matter how low or poor has the same opportunities as everyone else. This is why welfare excist and is why I support it, because we need to help our fellow humans and share the resources we have to make sure all can prosper.

The "self-made" ideology is an egoistic way of life that puts millions in poverty and a small percentage in huge wealth.

The bible does support helping the poor and disabled/anyone who cannot help themselves. i.e. this verse: Psalms 82:3

 

[Keache]

If that man was, by some strange will of God, born with a physical or mental injury/illness that didn't let him work, should he starve?

If a man is permanently disabled in an accident during work, does he deserve to "not eat"?

At this point you're just playing dumb to further your point (unless you truly are a strict constructionist, which I very much doubt).

 

[Beastmannn]

Nunu is god please and thankyou

 

[Fjordsen]

Nunu is god please and thankyou

Nunu nights with Dunkey

The bible does support helping the poor and disabled/anyone who cannot help themselves. i.e. this verse: Psalms 82:3

But it does say that "If a man doesn't work, neither shall he eat."

Contradictions.

 

[Sanogono]

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

 

[Weikauno]

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

God uses evil to test our hearts and see if we are faithful. i.e. the book of Job. Evil is a choice and He gave us freedom of choice.

 

[Fjordsen]

Since Freedom of Choice was mentioned, what do you christians in this thread think about homosexuality? Is it a choice or natural?


The reason why I ask is because I still see lots of discrimination and hate towards homosexuals even in the western civilization.

God uses evil to test our hearts and see if we are faithful. i.e. the book of Job. Evil is a choice and He gave us freedom of choice.

Then the human race is bad at choosing, because human history is soaked with blood and evil.

By the way, how do christians look at homo-species like Neandertalis and Erectus? Neandertalis was a more intellegent and stronger race than Sapiens (Worse at adapting though), so what did God say to them? Judaism wasn't founded before a couple thousand years BC, so the God you christians worship today didn't even excist for the majority of the time mankind has roamed this earth.

I just don't see how the evolution fits into christianity at all as it would assume God neglected all life on earth for 500(??) million years before doing anything.

 

[Sanogono]

 

[Sanogono]

God uses evil to test our hearts and see if we are faithful. i.e. the book of Job. Evil is a choice and He gave us freedom of choice.

See the above video.

 

[Weikauno]

Since Freedom of Choice was mentioned, what do you christians in this thread think about homosexuality? Is it a choice or natural?


The reason why I ask is because I still see lots of discrimination and hate towards homosexuals even in the western civilization.


Then the human race is bad at choosing, because human history is soaked with blood and evil.

By the way, how do christians look at homo-species like Neandertalis and Erectus? Neandertalis was a more intellegent and stronger race than Sapiens (Worse at adapting though), so what did God say to them? Judaism wasn't founded before a couple thousand years BC, so the God you christians worship today didn't even excist for the majority of the time mankind has roamed this earth.

I just don't see how the evolution fits into christianity at all as it would assume God neglected all life on earth for 500(??) million years before doing anything.

I see where you're coming from, but from my standpoint my church doesn't believe in evolution for many reasons including the fact that science has proven that genetics do not improve/mutate beneficially, they actually slowly degenerate. So that's how you prove evolution false in 1 sentence, and the theory about the "neandertalis" and "Erectus" and all that is connected to the flood. Pre-flood times had a different environment because most of the water on earth was in the atmosphere and it never rained, but misted constantly and the oxygen-rich air made humans grow much differently from after the flood, plus the water in the atmosphere blocked the majority of radiation from the sun, making humans able to live longer and such. And by fact, biblical peoples buried their people in caves, which would give you what some call "cave men". By this evidence I have been made to believe there has to be a creator in the universe and this is good hard evidence for it. And yes, humans have been evil, but what I believe as a Christian is the plan of the kingdom of God in the future, and those people who did evil, they'll have another chance, because they didn't know God in their life. That chance is called the second resurrection. The first resurrection will be all the people who lived their lives dedicated to living God's way as best they could, and there'll be a millenium after the first resurrection and before the second in which the world will be prepared for all the reconstruction and teaching of God's way. Only those who are really stupid and refuse to accept God's way, after being resurrected from the dead, (I mean really, not believing in something when it's right in front of you is kinda stupid)will go to hell, which won't be eternal torment, but rather a place where people are wiped from existence, for their own good.

edit: and hate shouldn't be shown towards anyone, no matter what they've done. Christianity supports that, yet, sadly, many who call themselves Christians do not follow that. This doesn't mean that Christians accept the bad things people do, though. Hate the sin, love the people.

 

[Sanogono]

I see where you're coming from, but from my standpoint my church doesn't believe in evolution for many reasons including the fact that science has proven that genetics do not improve/mutate beneficially, they actually slowly degenerate. So that's how you prove evolution false in 1 sentence, and the theory about the "neandertalis" and "Erectus" and all that is connected to the flood. Pre-flood times had a different environment because most of the water on earth was in the atmosphere and it never rained, but misted constantly and the oxygen-rich air made humans grow much differently from after the flood, plus the water in the atmosphere blocked the majority of radiation from the sun, making humans able to live longer and such. And by fact, biblical peoples buried their people in caves, which would give you what some call "cave men". By this evidence I have been made to believe there has to be a creator in the universe and this is good hard evidence for it. And yes, humans have been evil, but what I believe as a Christian is the plan of the kingdom of God in the future, and those people who did evil, they'll have another chance, because they didn't know God in their life. That chance is called the second resurrection. The first resurrection will be all the people who lived their lives dedicated to living God's way as best they could, and there'll be a millenium after the first resurrection and before the second in which the world will be prepared for all the reconstruction and teaching of God's way. Only those who are really stupid and refuse to accept God's way, after being resurrected from the dead, (I mean really, not believing in something when it's right in front of you is kinda stupid)will go to hell, which won't be eternal torment, but rather a place where people are wiped from existence, for their own good.

edit: and hate shouldn't be shown towards anyone, no matter what they've done. Christianity supports that, yet, sadly, many who call themselves Christians do not follow that. This doesn't mean that Christians accept the bad things people do, though. Hate the sin, love the people.

Are you saying that everyone who does not conform to your 2 thousand year old book is going to be completely wiped from existence "For their own good"?! This is why nobody with an IQ point over 90 listens to your book of ancient desert stories that completely fly against all we know about physics! Who are you to say that the Atheists and those not in Christianity specifically are going to be wiped while you go to some kingdom in the Stratosphere? its stupidity like this that flies in the face of Science, which has come so far in the past few hundred years, it is this reason that Atheists must fight you! Evolution itself is the selection of traits that help a species survive and reproduce in certain areas where they exist. While the human DNA does gradually degenerate, that in no way stops it from evolving, adapting, and passing down certain traits to the young. This entire paragraph you made is horribly inaccurate and you clearly have your head so far up your own ass that you try to push your own imaginings of how physics work despite all evidence by those who have dedicated their lives to these studies is terrible. I truly feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for any offspring you have in the future, and I feel horrible for the scientists who uncover important information, only to have religious mouth-breathers hold up their magic book and say "No, nope, dis magic book says god did it."

 

[Weikauno]

Are you saying that everyone who does not conform to your 2 thousand year old book is going to be completely wiped from existence "For their own good"?! This is why nobody with an IQ point over 90 listens to your book of ancient desert stories that completely fly against all we know about physics! Who are you to say that the Atheists and those not in Christianity specifically are going to be wiped while you go to some kingdom in the Stratosphere? its stupidity like this that flies in the face of Science, which has come so far in the past few hundred years, it is this reason that Atheists must fight you! Evolution itself is the selection of traits that help a species survive and reproduce in certain areas where they exist. While the human DNA does gradually degenerate, that in no way stops it from evolving, adapting, and passing down certain traits to the young. This entire paragraph you made is horribly inaccurate and you clearly have your head so far up your own ass that you try to push your own imaginings of how physics work despite all evidence by those who have dedicated their lives to these studies is terrible. I truly feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for any offspring you have in the future, and I feel horrible for the scientists who uncover important information, only to have religious mouth-breathers hold up their magic book and say "No, nope, dis magic book says god did it."

Say what you must. Feel sorry for me, but this is what I believe. My mind and my life overall was a wreck up until I actually payed attention to "dis magic book". That "magic book" is one of the only things that kept me alive and is keeping me alive. It's what I live for. So say what you want about it but that's not my problem. I'll believe what I will and you'll believe what you will. That's life. I hope you understand.

 

[Jpenguin]

I'll be honest, this is more of a real vs unreal thread now, but I'm gonna ask a question that I legitimately want answered. If god wanted everything to be in his image, why is there disease, death, killers, people hurting people, why isn't god exactly like a serial killer creating other serial killers? Let's take Ted Bundy for instance. Murdered 100+ women. God, if he does exist, has murdered millions with his system of 'disease'. Ted Bundy was put to death. What makes god anything different? (I've not read any scripture or bible, so this is one of the things I think I've been most speculative about.) And also, what would you do if you died and went to Valhalla, instead of heaven?

 

[Jackrox256]

I do not understand religion in general. Christianity, Catholics, Mormons, Scientology etc, etc. They all seem as outlandish, silly and outdated as one another. Look how people look at Scientology: now explain to me why I should not believe in their outlandish beliefs over your outlandish beliefs.

Your answer would most likely be something along the lines of, "I will not ask you to believe but rather hope you see that our version of God is true and their beliefs false." Not to take words out of your mouth but that seems to be the general answer that I get given by any religious person I ask, and I have asked both on the internet and in person. That is a complete cop-out, and is the exact reason more and more people realize that the old religions are no better than the new ones.

Hell, if I wrote a book about me doing a back-flip over a mountain the height of a giant and then kicked it to the size of a small rock, and then buried that book in a mound and waited for a millennium, someone might pick it up and call it fact. Then congratulations, I made the religion of the mountain kicker.
If I were to read Harry Potter I would take it as if it were fiction. If a fool read Harry Potter 2000 years into the future he may take as if it were fact. In my mind there is no difference between that concept and religion, and to be honest, Harry Potter would make a far better God then that of Christianity.

If I claim gravity does exists in a world without gravity I would be asked to prove it. Likewise Science prefers to state the fact here that gravity exists and they do. Despite the fact that we know it is there Scientists still work to fully understand that fact and present theories and evidence. Now religion they spout that faith overrides that of the need to present fact. That is biggest crap I have heard in my life. It is a ridiculous contradiction of what they ask of us, which is prove you are right. I even hear some that say: "Why don't you prove that God doesn't exist?" Now if I redirected that question and ask, "Why don't you prove God does exist?" I usually hear, I cannot, it is a matter of faith.

In short, I believe religion is full of contradictions that they do not wish to address or correct and why I prefer a man of science over a man of faith.

If I sound harsh I am sorry but in my experience no side can get any point across by being considerate.

(Also sorry for the rather long winded wall of text.)

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

I'll be honest, this is more of a real vs unreal thread now, but I'm gonna ask a question that I legitimately want answered. If god wanted everything to be in his image, why is there disease, death, killers, people hurting people, why isn't god exactly like a serial killer creating other serial killers? Let's take Ted Bundy for instance. Murdered 100+ women. God, if he does exist, has murdered millions with his system of 'disease'. Ted Bundy was put to death. What makes god anything different? (I've not read any scripture or bible, so this is one of the things I think I've been most speculative about.) And also, what would you do if you died and went to Valhalla, instead of heaven?

Hey, been inactive so I'm just checking up on my thread.

To answer your question, God didn't make everything in his image, just man. And disease, death, and other painful things were not in God's perfect plan, but instead entered into the world with sin when Adam ate the fruit of the tree God had forbidden him to eat.

Hope that helped a little, if you have anything else you were wondering about or want more detail on the answer I gave just ask.

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

I do not understand religion in general. Christianity, Catholics, Mormons, Scientology etc, etc. They all seem as outlandish, silly and outdated as one another. Look how people look at Scientology: now explain to me why I should not believe in their outlandish beliefs over your outlandish beliefs.

Your answer would most likely be something along the lines of, "I will not ask you to believe but rather hope you see that our version of God is true and their beliefs false." Not to take words out of your mouth but that seems to be the general answer that I get given by any religious person I ask, and I have asked both on the internet and in person. That is a complete cop-out, and is the exact reason more and more people realize that the old religions are no better than the new ones.

Hell, if I wrote a book about me doing a back-flip over a mountain the height of a giant and then kicked it to the size of a small rock, and then buried that book in a mound and waited for a millennium, someone might pick it up and call it fact. Then congratulations, I made the religion of the mountain kicker.
If I were to read Harry Potter I would take it as if it were fiction. If a fool read Harry Potter 2000 years into the future he may take as if it were fact. In my mind there is no difference between that concept and religion, and to be honest, Harry Potter would make a far better God then that of Christianity.

If I claim gravity does exists in a world without gravity I would be asked to prove it. Likewise Science prefers to state the fact here that gravity exists and they do. Despite the fact that we know it is there Scientists still work to fully understand that fact and present theories and evidence. Now religion they spout that faith overrides that of the need to present fact. That is biggest crap I have heard in my life. It is a ridiculous contradiction of what they ask of us, which is prove you are right. I even hear some that say: "Why don't you prove that God doesn't exist?" Now if I redirected that question and ask, "Why don't you prove God does exist?" I usually hear, I cannot, it is a matter of faith.

In short, I believe religion is full of contradictions that they do not wish to address or correct and why I prefer a man of science over a man of faith.

If I sound harsh I am sorry but in my experience no side can get any point across by being considerate.

(Also sorry for the rather long winded wall of text.)

As you described people just throwing their religion at you and saying I hope you believe it. In Christianity, it's more of planting seeds of the Gospel and leaving the rest up to God. Praying and hoping that God works in your heart.

Also science does not disprove God, but it will never 100% prove him either. Science points to God and creation, and leaves the rest up to faith in Jesus Christ as your savior.

Hope this helped!

 

[Bob_de_Blastoise]

Nunu nights with Dunkey





Contradictions.

Just wanted to clear something up here. In the verse he was referring to about men who don't work don't eat.

It is found in 2 Thessalonians 3:10 which is a letter from the disciple Paul to the church of the Thessalonians. Meaning that he was applying it to the church. The verse that comes directly after is...
"For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies."

So he was telling the members of the church their that they should work.

It is not a contradiction just taken out of context.

 

[Fjordsen]

I see where you're coming from, but from my standpoint my church doesn't believe in evolution for many reasons including the fact that science has proven that genetics do not improve/mutate beneficially, they actually slowly degenerate. So that's how you prove evolution false in 1 sentence, and the theory about the "neandertalis" and "Erectus" and all that is connected to the flood. Pre-flood times had a different environment because most of the water on earth was in the atmosphere and it never rained, but misted constantly and the oxygen-rich air made humans grow much differently from after the flood, plus the water in the atmosphere blocked the majority of radiation from the sun, making humans able to live longer and such. And by fact, biblical peoples buried their people in caves, which would give you what some call "cave men". By this evidence I have been made to believe there has to be a creator in the universe and this is good hard evidence for it. And yes, humans have been evil, but what I believe as a Christian is the plan of the kingdom of God in the future, and those people who did evil, they'll have another chance, because they didn't know God in their life. That chance is called the second resurrection. The first resurrection will be all the people who lived their lives dedicated to living God's way as best they could, and there'll be a millenium after the first resurrection and before the second in which the world will be prepared for all the reconstruction and teaching of God's way. Only those who are really stupid and refuse to accept God's way, after being resurrected from the dead, (I mean really, not believing in something when it's right in front of you is kinda stupid)will go to hell, which won't be eternal torment, but rather a place where people are wiped from existence, for their own good.

This would imply that:

• Humans have existed since the beginning of life (Hundreds of Million of years), as we couldn't possibly evolve from any other mammal.
• Homo Sapiens is the only human race ever to exist.
• Species can not mutate and adapt into new enviroments genetically (Polar Bears don't exist by that theory)
• A geological time period called The Flood?
• That it never rained ''Pre-Flood'' (Again, wtf is The Flood)
• That humans lived before the flood, even though it never rained. (You can explain how the hell humans and animals in general survived without new sources of fresh water, I assume)
• That the non-existant Pre-Sapiens Homo Species (Neandertalis, Erectus etc.) were just many million year old people from the bible, buried in caves.
• That human civilization has existed since the beginning and thus the first cities and towns are billions of years old.

And that is why you believe the universe has one sole creator; The Abrahamic God. God of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.


.....


Ok, I can no longer take you serious.