Suggestion Remove no-pvp for under level 10's within regions

[Barnubus]

I can understand why you'd want to make blocking up death chests illegal for under level 10's just fine. I feel like the other things, like covering random chests and doors are unneeded.

Suppose I'm a brand new player, just joined my first town and I'm lvl like 3. Just finished building my first dirt shack of a house. Got one nice chest filled with some materials I've collected. But oh no here comes a random enemy. Because I've spotted this enemy I'm now not allowed to block my door or my chest to prevent theft? you know just like how any normal person over lvl 10 would do?

Majoras said they are allowed to block up their own chests/houses, but blocking up others, or town chests that were left open is again abusing their protection.

 

[Barnubus]

When I was under level 10, plenty of people were more than happy to set me on fire. I tried to PE it, thinking that it was illegal. In fact, it was stated plainly that it was VERY legal to do this. People under level 10 can be set on fire; I know this all too well.

PvPers often make use of tricks to make it easier for them to kill and steal from other players. They will break through regioned blocks to use lifts, pillar over walls, and perform any number of other things that seem like abuses but are perfectly legal. We defend PvPers right to do what they can to do what they love to do.

So we will also defend the right of nonPvPers to pwn you right back by using the same legal tricks against you (until Kainzo says otherwise). If you don't like it, bring some flint and steel with you and set Gta on fire. He likes it when you hurt him.

You cant set him on fire, he's in a regioned area ._.

 

[faredX]

Why do people even bother raiding.. Surely one wouldn't stay in their town forever.

 

[Dielan9999]

The whole point of the suggestion is to prevent under-level 10s from placing blocks to cover/protect and secure, items/players or areas of a town which would have once been legitately accessed by a raider/raiders.

If a town is being raided, then a under-level 10 player should, really, stay far away from the raiders as possible. They shouldn't use their ability to do what others (who are above level 10) usually have to do during a raid, which includes:

- Covering chests which are open.
- Blocking off tunnels.
- Placing lava/fire down.
- Operating traps.

Why should they not be allowed to use their ability to do this? Because they can't die, giving them an unfair advantage.

You must have missed my post from last page. What happens if they are able to block off other areas without being detected? For example, if a higher level person went and did it, and was never attacked nobody cares. Pretend a low level person could be attacked, they go block stuff off, but never get hit or even detected? You know how pvpers attack low levels first, and then realize later that they are underleveled when they discover they can't hit them.

If they can go do these thing like I said above where even if they could get hit, they still don't; should they be punished?



My point is Majoras, that your suggestion (while made with good intentions) is too ambiguous to implement.

 

[Symbolite]

Majoras said they are allowed to block up their own chests/houses, but blocking up others, or town chests that were left open is again abusing their protection.

Way I see it is it's their town too. Town is a group project that is worked on by all the towns citizens. In a weird way, its their stuff too. That's why I don't see why they can't block a door or a chest that's in their town. I'm not going to argue the death chest point cuz that I do agree with.

 

[bluejack404]

You cant set him on fire, he's in a regioned area ._.

Ah. Well I should've thought of that when I was under level 10.

I honestly don't think anyone should be able to cover death chests. It's bad form no matter who does it. As long as murdering marauders can do it, I don't see why unattackable players shouldn't be able to. Consider when you kill someone in the wild. If you cover their chest with cobblestone, you make it completely impossible for them to get to their chest in time. Even if they were to kill you, they'd have to stand there and fist the stone. They'd barely get one block in by the time you're back to attack them again. And more than likely they haven't healed from your previous encounter. Until Gta, covering chests favored raiders. I don't see why it's bad that the tables have turned.

I also don't see why blocking town chests that were left open is bad. During one raid against NW, I dropped all of my armor in a box and went around blocking chests that had been left open. Alexhoff eventually found me and ate me alive, but I managed to block all of the town chests before he got to me. The only difference between me and Gta is that Gta can continue blocking chests. You just have to open the chest before he's gotten to them.

The one issue is setting fire. Setting fire should be a skill that is learned past level 10. Just like using shears, it should be learned, not automatic. That should prevent Gta from bothering you while you loot a chest. Similarly, if you don't want Gta covering a death chest, stand on it. He can't place blocks on top of you, unless I'm mistaken.

 

[Barnubus]

The only difference between me and Gta is that Gta can continue blocking chests. You just have to open the chest before he's gotten to them.

This is my whole and absolute issue here; this is completely exploiting the no-pvp ability given to him, and is exactly why it should be made illegal. If they choose to remain under level 10, then limits should be placed on them (only while they are being raided) to avoid this abuse. It is their choice to stay this way, thus their choice to decide to stay out of raids (helping their town by pvping or blocking up chests/doorways).

 

[Dielan9999]

This is my whole and absolute issue here; this is completely exploiting the no-pvp ability given to him, and is exactly why it should be made illegal. If they choose to remain under level 10, then limits should be placed on them (only while they are being raided) to avoid this abuse. It is their choice to stay this way, thus their choice to decide to stay out of raids (helping their town by pvping or blocking up chests/doorways).

This is why I think the covering of chests (not necessarily buildings) by underleveled people should be something punishable you can PE. I don't think anything more needs to be added to this solution.

EDIT: It over-complicates things.

 

[MajorasMask]

This is why I think the covering of chests (not necessarily buildings) by underleveled people should be something punishable you can PE. I don't think anything more needs to be added to this solution.

EDIT: It over-complicates things.

This is what we've been suggesting. O_O

 

[xexorian]

I disagree entirely with all four of you.

If anything, this suggestion should be turned into, all players forcibly drop their weapons/armor on death. So, it's only relevant to yourself, the way you play, and how you enjoy the game based on your morals.

Leave the deathchests alone. Leave the newbie who didn't level, and the veteran who refuses to, alone. Satisfy your craving for competitive play with a competitive reward.

If you built stuff, you'd be in a town that builds stuff, not a town that PVP's. You PVP because you play competively, right?.. I mean, right? That's your style?....riiiight?

 

[Dsawemd]

edit: nvrmind

 

[jazza411]

I feel that you should be able to kill players under level 10, but is should be really difficult something that one person would not attempt. Like you can only punch under level 10's or the DPS is a 1/100 of normal. (This is really rough)

P.S. Nothing bad happened to the server in DG or Zeal with pvp to all levels.

 

[Scycor]

Hmm, this is really tough decision on what to go on. I say just let lvl 10's or under be able to get hurt in a town, like Barnubus said, it is a little harsh, but that is why almost all towns are impossible to get into without waiting for someone to open the door. (Except Newerth, that's why I <3 them.)

Just go with what Jazza411 said and just make it do less damage so they at least have a chance to get away or something like that.

 

[Fjordsen]

I feel that you should be able to kill players under level 10, but is should be really difficult something that one person would not attempt. Like you can only punch under level 10's or the DPS is a 1/100 of normal. (This is really rough)

P.S. Nothing bad happened to the server in DG or Zeal with pvp to all levels.

Haven't you noticed how the amount of people playing on HC actively has been doubled since Zeal? Maybe because new players don't get kileld every second anymore. (In Zeal there would be 50-80 people on at nights, now it's 100-200)

 

[xexorian]

You guys are so messed up.

PVP is not about raiding, or stealing people's belongings. That's a childish aspect of PVP in an open sandbox RPG.

Let me re-iterate that for you since you can't deduce (by yourself) most of what I say:
The heart of PVP is competition, and competitive playstyles. Raiding, however, is unique to certain games.

It's one of the worst abused, and used concepts of the pvp aspect of sandbox RPG's. Unfortunately it's hard to avoid, so Kainzo has let everyone (intentionally, or unintentionally) have deathchests to help protect their stuff. The concept of sneaking in and stealing is fine, the concept of killing to obtain loot is fine. The concept of camping towns in superior numbers and levels, with no way to defend themselves or their belongings is NOT FINE.

It's bullying, and I think it's just wrong. This is why ports, and other ways to move around exist. It's also why you can track people. Here, we are shown both sides of the argument. Port out. PVE. Track and hunt them down. PVP.

You spent (at most, a reasonable estimate) 40 hours to level your combat spec.
You steal and kill your way to hundreds of hours of mined, gathered, logged, farmed, etc. loot by new players.
How does that actually make you feel? Do you feel like you've succeeded? Like you've won? Because you power leveled and then kill everyone off for all their stuff?

I think it's unfair however you look at it. I actually think every player should be responsible for their own belongings and the only things you should drop are your gear. Weapons/Armor. The bounty system is awesome for collecting coins on heads, and you shouldn't have to worry about losing your stuff to stealing to a point. Which is why we have LWC's and other things.

It's to balance out people with morals, and people with no moral concepts. Primarily because minecraft is a game for younger people, and older people alike. There's a broad spectrum - so the in between - is protection for both sides of the line, that is drawn. Primarily, because minecraft has a pve/pvp aspect.

Are you seeing the duality presented?

My point is, the system is fine.

GTA covering chests is fine. If you want to raid to get loot, you should focus on legitimately getting into the region, stealing from uncovered chests and slaughtering everyone you can. BECAUSE, not everyone carries a chest at all times. Another point is, even if they're absolutely prepared, you can always gank 'em outside the region and truly 'plunder' the city by waiting it out and raiding them. Take your time, be truly diabolical about it. Don't let anyone leave without dieing outside the region. Or, as I stated earlier, just stand on the chest for 5-6 minutes.

This is why oldschool pvpers were hardcore, far more hardcore than all the pvpers on these new maps, trying to get all the rules bent to their way, or make new rules so they can get by with crap. How about you put some effort into it? Hmm?

Oh but that takes too much time? They can kill you before then? But, Doesn't that negate the whole covering it with a block? If they can kill you before you can stand on a chest that expires --> then they could block it, without the level 1's help. So, please do yourself the favor and don't be absurd.

Again, as I've said, there's many solutions to how to play this out, but you guys are lazy as hell and want to PVP your way out, or whine on the forums, in either suggestion formats, on other threads, or in private conversations.

This whole argument has been had many times on the forums and in-game. I don't know why we're having it again. This is pointless drabble about a topic that shouldn't even exist, yet does, due to primarily what I would call ignorance.

Also, this situation can be applied to many other features of heroes that AREN'T going away.. for obvious reasons, and this rule would definitely create unnecessary PE's and workload for mods and admins. They don't need to worry about a few people keeping their stuff by covering their death chests in regions. We are allowed to play defensively how you are allowed to play offensively, If the tables were turned, you would do the same.

The problem boils down to the fact that newerth is a big, BIG town. SLAP FULL of low level specs and some unspecced players. The TC (and others who raid us) take utter advantage of us, our stuff, and hinder our growth. We simply wish to be a passive community that grows in our area, mostly peacefully. We're forced to pvp, and defend ourselves with means, that are far less subversive than others, in order to grow.

I can't even build a wall around my new region edge due to the sheer amount of raiders between Umbra and the TCK. So I'd say you're doing a damn good job raiding my town so far. You just don't like it because we're still standing strong from it. You don't like it because you can't steal from all the LWC's, and you can't steal (much) from killing us in our home turf. I suggest you wait until we're 60, and we raid your town, with your tactics, and see how you fare. I still expect the same amount of PE's about us though. The balls on you guys are absolutely enormous.

That's all I have to say about this subject.
xexo

 

[MajorasMask]

^ If you're going to ramble/rant away, take it elsewhere. Over half of that had nothing to do with the initial suggestion, which is all about preventing people from abusing non-pvp protection.



I'd like to know what Kainzo thinks of the suggestion Barnubus has put forth. Either that or the 12-hour suggestion.

 

[kevinlive]

^ If you're going to ramble/rant away, take it elsewhere. Over half of that had nothing to do with the initial suggestion, which is all about preventing people from abusing non-pvp protection.

Have to disagree.
Over half of it counters 80% of the arguments in these 6 pages, 10% is random, and the rest is devoted to the suggestion.

 

[MajorasMask]

Have to disagree.
Over half of it counters 80% of the arguments in these 6 pages, 10% is random, and the rest is devoted to the suggestion.

No, i'm pretty sure it's just him rambling on, like he always does. He talks about Newerth, how ''put down'' they are by raiders, alongside all plenty of other irrelevant things. If I wanted to pull, from my ass, a ''Look at me, boo hoo, how poor I am, things arn't what they used to be, why are you so mean, you're all bullies'' story, I would. Buuuut I don't, so, back on topic.

 

[kevinlive]

No, i'm pretty sure it's just him rambling on, like he always does. He talks about Newerth, how ''put down'' they are by raiders, alongside all plenty of other irrelevant things. If I wanted to pull, from my ass, a ''Look at me, boo hoo, how poor I am, things arn't what they used to be, why are you so mean, you're all bullies'' story, I would. Buuuut I don't, so, back on topic.

He's being more appropriate than you though. He's drawing examples from NW because he has his experience about the topic from there.

My cup of tea, you're not getting any of it.

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My opinion on the subject:
this purely favors the PvPers who spend their time raiding and camping towns with recruits, and veterans who's only on the server to chat(more or less like me :3).

Players shouldn't be able to walk without taking damage from players at all times, and abuse it in towns, although, looking at the oppositions, this is really just a poor issue.
Get your dirt, cobble and wood somewhere else.

 

[Kwong050]

He's being more appropriate than you though. He's drawing examples from NW because he has his experience about the topic from there.

My cup of tea, you're not getting any of it.

-----------------------------------------------
My opinion on the subject:
this purely favors the PvPers who spend their time raiding and camping towns with recruits, and veterans who's only on the server to chat(more or less like me :3).

Players shouldn't be able to walk without taking damage from players at all times, and abuse it in towns, although, looking at the oppositions, this is really just a poor issue.
Get your dirt, cobble and wood somewhere else.

In fact, the lvl 10 thing goes BOTH ways. If anything, I think that it should be a player's choice whether or not to be lvl 10, but they should not exploit the system that in a way that player an advantage.