Personal Worries about HC

[arcanegrove]

Ah, I know just what the quote is. From strongholdx , in the days of Sanctum.

Yep, that was it...

 

[Angyles]

As a banned player I can say that favoritism is more or less ruining the server. I can name, but will not, several occasions on the past three maps where I have witnessed (and been a part of) favoritism. Also, why are certain banned players hated so much? Sure, they caused havoc on the server but that does not mean staff should ignore their ban appeal. This is only part of what I would like to say but I fear everyone disagreeing with me for saying what I've seen as a hated player.

Let's say staff does not ignore their appeal, what should be said? In some cases I believe in giving another chance, and in other cases, I cannot see the merit in it.

So would you prefer staff ignores it, or post on the appeal "Nope not happening"?

I myself post on any ban or mute appeals I am involve with, I have only had two members appeal a perma ban, and I had to decline the request.

Issue is you ((Just in general not you specifically in this case)) broke the rules, why should the staff have to make the appeal a priority?

I do know that Kainzo gave me special permission to handle any mute appeals that are over 30 days old, but the bans are still left up to the person who banned the individual.

 

[itzmak]

Let's say staff does not ignore their appeal, what should be said? In some cases I believe in giving another chance, and in other cases, I cannot see the merit in it.

So would you prefer staff ignores it, or post on the appeal "Nope not happening"?

I myself post on any ban or mute appeals I am involve with, I have only had two members appeal a perma ban, and I had to decline the request.

Issue is you ((Just in general not you specifically in this case)) broke the rules, why should the staff have to make the appeal a priority?

I do know that Kainzo gave me special permission to handle any mute appeals that are over 30 days old, but the bans are still left up to the person who banned the individual.

In my eyes telling a player straight up what is going to happen with their ban is better than leading one on. And staff should not make the appeal a priority but they should get to every appeal in equal time. Again, some appeals are settled in days while others take months. It just seems absurd to me

 

[Angyles]

In my eyes telling a player straight up what is going to happen with their ban is better than leading one on. And staff should not make the appeal a priority but they should get to every appeal in equal time. Again, some appeals are settled in days while others take months. It just seems absurd to me

Trust me I do understand, some people are just busier and do not put a focus on appeals.

 

[victim130]

As a banned player I can say that favoritism is more or less ruining the server. I can name, but will not, several occasions on the past three maps where I have witnessed (and been a part of) favoritism. Also, why are certain banned players hated so much? Sure, they caused havoc on the server but that does not mean staff should ignore their ban appeal. This is only part of what I would like to say but I fear everyone disagreeing with me for saying what I've seen as a hated player.

Favoritism is so hard to avoid with opinions existing. You can avoid it all you want, but the moment it ticks in your head, you won't even notice it. Psychology ftw? And I mean hatred in itself is opinionated, I mean even without change, a person can be cool or misunderstood.

Though the factor with this is how aware people are when it happens.

 

[victim130]

I just want to toss it out there that I wrote this with so much pent up depression and anger towards people I know both online and in real life. I don't particularly hate anyone outside of people with personal hatred towards me. While I stand by most of what I said, if not all, I hope no feelings were hurt and I even more wish that this opens some eyes a bit to help development of the server even if it is not true.

I also want to thank everyone for the great feedback, and even more for being semi-civil haha.

 

[HelsEch]

I guess it's about darned time I put in my two cents.

This is a server I've been involved in for a long time and my particular story in it has let me see it from a different view and experience many of HC's many different types of players. I hear the stories of many players and all seem to be in discontent, but the one thing that will always keep this server alive, despite any disdain for staff or game mechanics is the community. Not all is well though. This thread is evidence enough that the community isn't just worried about the game, but about how these elements are coming to negatively affect the community.

My ears have been pressed to grape vines and they whisper much into my ears. Key members are not contented with Herocraft and have their sights set on loftier shores. I do not wish for this world, made by the Players, to begin to crumble. I believe that a large part of maintaining this game is improving staff behavior and removing contradictions in the system.

Herocraft, obviously, is a sandbox mmorpg where players are the sole creators of all the factions, guilds, structures, and stories that happen within the game. It's this player community that acts largely as the life-blood of Herocraft. As all Sanctum members know, without Heroes this game would still be very similar, though much simpler, than it is now. My point being, Heroes, while a large plug-in with a lot of options and applications, is not core to maintaining the game. Improving Heroes is more a quality of life improvement than a game improvement. Where do we look to point our focus? How the staff treats its players.

I tend to avoid staff interactions, almost at all costs, because I know it's a landmine. In some ways, I could say the staff are too involved. They attempt to cross the boundary into player and bring all their power with them, which due to the many unwritten rules of Herocraft will cause issues. That's probably my first issue, unwritten rules. You can't follow rules that aren't stated except through dumb luck, and dumb luck can get you banned for them, too. It is important for any governing body, the staff, to set solid rules from the start. Sometimes the limits of these rules are tested and they must be re-written, but that's just part of the course. In the end, rules should always be strongly stated.

I didn't say anything about the contents of those rules though. I don't like touching on the issue, since everyone has their own standards, but I'd like to at least point out an issue or two here. Firstly, Herocraft's aim has been a hardcore server where if the players allowed it you could kill someone in plain sight as much as you like, but for some reason verbal scuffles are a taboo which "no one wants to see" and have a negative impact on gameplay. Distinctions between "physical" actions and verbal actions shouldn't be made. If you can fight with your fists in public then you can fight with your words, too. The varying severity of enforcement of rules also creates a confusing contradiction for new players and signals staff bias to the old.

I could write for ages, which to some of you it'd seem I already have, but I'll leave this here as food for thought and feel free to respond to this, as my opinions likely have flaws.

 

[leftovers5]

I could support a community tribunal system for the bans that fall into the category "staff reserves the right to ban at whim".

 

[Angyles]

I could support a community tribunal system for the bans that fall into the category "staff reserves the right to ban at whim".

Sorry have not seen any of those since I became mod, I am curious who you are referring to.

The problem is, many of you see this:

Player A does something wrong is not banned.
Player B does the same thing and promptly banned.

Want to know why? Player B has a huge file or numerous warnings. You cannot look at two people doing the exact same thing the same way. There is information you as the community does not have, that we do.

 

[lioIIoil]

Sorry have not seen any of those since I became mod, I am curious who you are referring to.

The problem is, many of you see this:

Player A does something wrong is not banned.
Player B does the same thing and promptly banned.

Want to know why? Player B has a huge file or numerous warnings. You cannot look at two people doing the exact same thing the same way. There is information you as the community does not have, that we do.

Yeah you're right many of the people who got perma banned for doing something that many don't get banned for have broken many rules before.

 

[Angyles]

Yeah you're right many of the people who got perma banned for doing something that many don't get banned for have broken many rules before.

The situations are not the same every time, which sadly is what many in the community think it is. So it might look like favourtism, but in reality the person might have never caused any issues.

 

[Danda]

-snip-

Pretty much this, the decisions on length and action to take is not just based off of the individual incident but whether we feel the individual is learning from their previous mistakes too.

Also I personally cannot name an incident where this has happened off the top of my head within the past 6 months possibly longer.

I'd like to at least point out an issue or two here. Firstly, Herocraft's aim has been a hardcore server where if the players allowed it you could kill someone in plain sight as much as you like, but for some reason verbal scuffles are a taboo which "no one wants to see" and have a negative impact on gameplay. Distinctions between "physical" actions and verbal actions shouldn't be made. If you can fight with your fists in public then you can fight with your words, too. The varying severity of enforcement of rules also creates a confusing contradiction for new players and signals staff bias to the old.

The whole server does not see each and every fight, where as fighting and bickering in global channels everyone is forced to see and players are unable to leave these channels if they do not wish to see it. You are welcome to fight and bicker in private channels or shout & local just don't drag it into global channels forcing the entire server to listen. Not to mention bickering about in-game politics and actions is hardly "offtopic" the channel in which the majority of these fights take place

 

[HolyRane]

As a banned player I can say that favoritism is more or less ruining the server. I can name, but will not, several occasions on the past three maps where I have witnessed (and been a part of) favoritism. Also, why are certain banned players hated so much? Sure, they caused havoc on the server but that does not mean staff should ignore their ban appeal. This is only part of what I would like to say but I fear everyone disagreeing with me for saying what I've seen as a hated player.

Don't worry, I still love you.

 

[leftovers5]

Sorry have not seen any of those since I became mod, I am curious who you are referring to.

The problem is, many of you see this:

Player A does something wrong is not banned.
Player B does the same thing and promptly banned.

Want to know why? Player B has a huge file or numerous warnings. You cannot look at two people doing the exact same thing the same way. There is information you as the community does not have, that we do.

I can't think of anyone off the top of my head come to think of it, but that generic text was more pointed towards the more obscure bans.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

A few thoughts on priorities, ie "what's important":

• Community is paramount. With no community, there is no Herocraft.
• Perception is more important than reality. If there's a perception that decisions are unjust, this will do more damage than actually making unjust decisions.
• The spirit of the law is more important than the words. If the laws as they are currently enforced or written aren't working for the community, they need to be reviewed for the health of the community.
• Core business is the bedrock. So many exciting innovations are happening at Herocraft, but is core business still being nurtured and strengthened?
• People need a chance. I've never spoken with most of the people in this thread, but I'm guessing a great many are in their mid-teens. They're going through an amazing stage of life, developing their core understanding of who they are and what they stand for. By god, they need a chance to learn and change and not get labelled. Please.

It all comes down to your values. I value Compassion, Community, Connection, Communication. We all prioritize our values differently. For example, I prioritize Compassion over Consistency, so I know I'm not really admin material myself!

Hats off to the people who do take it on, I say. It's a huge and powerful job that affects real people's lives.

 

[Kwong050]

A few thoughts on priorities, ie "what's important":

• Community is paramount. With no community, there is no Herocraft.
• Perception is more important than reality. If there's a perception that decisions are unjust, this will do more damage than actually making unjust decisions.
• The spirit of the law is more important than the words. If the laws as they are currently enforced or written aren't working for the community, they need to be reviewed for the health of the community.
• Core business is the bedrock. So many exciting innovations are happening at Herocraft, but is core business still being nurtured and strengthened?
• People need a chance. I've never spoken with most of the people in this thread, but I'm guessing a great many are in their mid-teens. They're going through an amazing stage of life, developing their core understanding of who they are and what they stand for. By god, they need a chance to learn and change and not get labelled. Please.

It all comes down to your values. I value Compassion, Community, Connection, Communication. We all prioritize our values differently. For example, I prioritize Compassion over Consistency, so I know I'm not really the admin type myself!

Hats off to the people who do take it on, I say. It's a huge and powerful job that affects real people's lives.

Lets go

 

[Angyles]

A few thoughts on priorities, ie "what's important":

• Community is paramount. With no community, there is no Herocraft.
• Perception is more important than reality. If there's a perception that decisions are unjust, this will do more damage than actually making unjust decisions.
• The spirit of the law is more important than the words. If the laws as they are currently enforced or written aren't working for the community, they need to be reviewed for the health of the community.
• Core business is the bedrock. So many exciting innovations are happening at Herocraft, but is core business still being nurtured and strengthened?
• People need a chance. I've never spoken with most of the people in this thread, but I'm guessing a great many are in their mid-teens. They're going through an amazing stage of life, developing their core understanding of who they are and what they stand for. By god, they need a chance to learn and change and not get labelled. Please.

It all comes down to your values. I value Compassion, Community, Connection, Communication. We all prioritize our values differently. For example, I prioritize Compassion over Consistency, so I know I'm not really the admin type myself!

Hats off to the people who do take it on, I say. It's a huge and powerful job that affects real people's lives.

I am all for giving chances, and I have given people chances only to have it chucked back in my face for doing so. Changes the way you view people.

As for the changing of the law, I am constantly bothering Danda about rule changes, and ways to make them more clear. I guess that is why I am so great at my career, I take a rule and figure out ways people will try to get around it and fix the rule to stop that. ^^

 

[HolyRane]

I don't think that this thread is really being understood, we're not saying that banned players shouldn't be banned, we just think that some things have gotten out of control and need to be fixed to adjust to what the community would enjoy and prosper from.

 

[Teerian]

"People never change" is, indeed, an ignorant statement. I will agree that drastic changes are rare, but they do occur. I'm not a very optimistic person, but I've seen enough people truly change (both for the better and for worse) to know it happens.

Though I am guilty of using them, "never" and "always" are words that are usually best avoided.

Edit: And wow, how did I miss two full pages of discussion? This was meant for a comment way back on page one.

 

[strongholdx]

Personally, veterans of the server should know the rules better than they do. So I don't feel pity or sorrow when they get banned. (Amgroma is a fantastic example of this)

Back in Sanctum, people were scared shitless of breaking a block they didn't own that looked remotely like it was placed by someone(as in not natural). Those are the days I miss. Ever since Zeal people have actually attempted to stretch the rules as far as possible, forcing 'patches' and updates to the rules to make sure they are as clearly defined as possible. Those little shits back in Zeal should have just had more respect for the rules.

Ever since, I've always wished there was more mods than there were. So I support adding on new staff, and I support punishing rulebreaking. Sure it may be heartbreaking when a friend breaks the rules and is punished, but it was their choice. I came here from a private server owned by a corrupt admin, and between there and here I played on many servers (this was Minecraft Alpha/Beta age, two years ago) and this server has a very fair rule-set plus ban and appeal system in my eyes.

Just my 2c.

I agree with this, these are my thought exactly

I agree, the community is what has kept me around for so long, and to be constantly tossed around by it and shunned isn't the nicest thing.

Let this be known as the day that Rane and I agree on something

I don't think that this thread is really being understood, we're not saying that banned players shouldn't be banned, we just think that some things have gotten out of control and need to be fixed to adjust to what the community would enjoy and prosper from.

Make that twice (perhaps you HAVE changed)
/rant

They are banned for legitimate reasons, whether or not the staff hates them is irrelevant. Also, they are probably hated because they were given some sort of "parol" for a permaban, more or less. (Because of that they aren't allowed to do ANYTHING illegal, and also stuff adds up, whether or not the trigger point is completely valid or not.)

This

Sorry have not seen any of those since I became mod, I am curious who you are referring to.

The problem is, many of you see this:

Player A does something wrong is not banned.
Player B does the same thing and promptly banned.

Want to know why? Player B has a huge file or numerous warnings. You cannot look at two people doing the exact same thing the same way. There is information you as the community does not have, that we do.

This

Most people I see banned are for legit reasons. Some people only get away with stuff because the person they abuse doesn't know its Illegal or doesn't know how to Petition. If your so sure that you would get away with it, go ahead and try, lets see how far you get.

While you may miss friends/people that are banned they were banned for the greater good of the server. Imagine if certain others weren't banned because someone liked them and V-clipping was still going on. Its apart of human nature to miss that of what we once had, however the past is the past and all we can do is move forward.

And this are the same spoon-fed-bullshit shpeals that I got from the staff.
Why did I quit? (And this is going to rustle some jimmies) The corrupt management.


I will not name names but when I saw player after player hack with IRREFUTABLE evidence that they had done so, they all got a slap on the wrist. I saw people (namely the original tree creepers, but there were many more) get banned upwards in 10-15 times before the hammer came down. Then on the flip side you'd have some guy break one rule once and BAM the management says "We have no time for rule breakers. Break the rules and break your membership"


Bull
Fucking
Shit

What was the difference between that guy and the people who could freely hack at a whim? PvP.
The players who got away with nearly everything, time after time, were always PvPers. If they didn't promote PvP on the server the management had no problem banning them. If they did then the management would ask them to take an 'involuntary' break. It was said that HC was not a PvP only server but for some strange reason, it was 90% PvP and 10% fear of it.


And then you get Kain saying things as such

Moving this thread to member's discussion.
I don't see the point - but keep it civil!

Why does he not see the point? Because its his server and he does what he wants with it. You can -NOT- change anything. Everything is under the jurisdiction of the management and the management is under the jurisdiction of Kainzo. Welcome to Kainzocraft, stay as long as you like. (no sarcasm intended here, no ill feelings toward Kain either, it just so happens that he is in utter control of this server(because it his) and for the record: He does a fine job)


One thing people don't know about me is that I sent a VERY long winded letter to all the admins (right before I quit for good) exclaiming my (and many other peoples') worries about Herocraft and the direction it was headed. It was thought out, planned for almost a week through a collaboration of authors and then submitted.

What did we get?

We were called selfish for thinking of ourselves instead of the server (which was false), we 'insulted' the staff with the letter, we lost, they pointed their fingers at us and said 'lolnope'. We were shot down ultimately because the management didn't like our way of doing things. Because we liked it when the game was Minecraft - because that's what we came to play.

Is that wrong? No, its their server, let them do as they please. If you don't like the way things are, leave, that's what I did. I'm happily situated on a Vanilla server. Point being that THIS IS NOT YOUR DOMAIN, don't pretend it is, don't pretend it can be.

Moral of the story: This is not your universe, it is a universe set by the guidelines of the management. You can urge them to change the guidelines, but unless you're the management, they're not going to be changed. You came here to play, and either you play what you're given or you go elsewhere. I loved what I was given (so much that I put my paycheck into it), until I was spoon-fed the same bullshit over and over and over and over again. If you want out, get out, if not stay in. The only middle line is mine, I dislike the game, love the community. That's why I stick around here.

A long time ago, carmeops put it like this

removing BASIC VANILLA FEATURES is a total no, i don't want to play kainzocraft, i was here to play some REAL minecraft, but kain just forgot what real minecraft mean, he want his server to become world of warcraft: then do it without me.

Ignoring the anger directed at Kain himself, Carmeops makes the point that THIS IS NOT MINECRAFT. If you wanted Minecraft you are in the wrong place, go elsewhere. Look at the server you play on. Is it how you want your experience to be? Do you enjoy the limitations of the class system or do you enjoy a more freestyle play method? Do you enjoy the city politics or would you like a more peaceful environment?

These are all questions you need to ask yourself, then ask yourself if those aspects are in this server, if not, go elsewhere. The management only cares about you so much, tomorrow (hell in the next 10 minutes) another player will replace you. Herocraft isn't going anywhere because of this. If you leave you can also come back and you'll still hold your same status. Stay or go, that is up to you.

/rant