Karma System Conception...

[Kainzo]

Hopefully getting some of this done and thrown into test. The backbone is mostly complete.

 

[Graink]

Don't forget to give blue people bad karma whenever they loot a chest that they didn't place. Blue people shouldn't be allowed to steal right? Otherwise that just breaks the whole idea of them being good.

 

[Sidgil]

@Kainzo, if you need any test subjects, just let me know. I don't mind letting you guys smack me around while you figure things out for this.

 

[Kainzo]

Don't forget to give blue people bad karma whenever they loot a chest that they didn't place. Blue people shouldn't be allowed to steal right? Otherwise that just breaks the whole idea of them being good.

We're working on this right now in terms of logic.

Basically, I want "Smith-Locks" to be available for chests - created by either a magical spell or by a smith. These "locks" will safeguard chests from basic methods to open it. However, other classes will be able to break into said locks and if they do, they get hit by bad karma.

I'm really not sure how much this will take to implement but I'm staying positive.

 

[Drastikos]

I'd really like to see a way of identifying peoples general karma alignment!
I suggest we have the players names above their head either Red, Blue or Grey to reflect their Karma.

 

[PanFlake]

That's how I interpreted the scale shown, as the number line I posted here.

@Kainzo - Which of these is it? Unless I missed something, it appears to be number line.

Mormon, thats just how i thought of it, it should be in number line form. I was giving a rough example of what Iarbobray was trying to say.

 

[Psychokhaos]

Mormon, thats just how i thought of it, it should be in number line form. I was giving a rough example of what Iarbobray was trying to say.

No no, I mean as one, singular number line, not three separate ones. And I think you mean Haxnn, not Iarbobray? Unless I missed something.

 

[PanFlake]

Yes, Haxnn, I know what you mean by a singular number line, I just made it like that, not thinking
@TheMormon

 

[Dazureus]

Don't forget to give blue people bad karma whenever they loot a chest that they didn't place. Blue people shouldn't be allowed to steal right? Otherwise that just breaks the whole idea of them being good.

I can see a little problem with this- what if the other guy gave you permission to take stuff, or you're doing a group project or something similar? It would be really inconvenient to wait on people to get things out of chests for you.

 

[TheTXLibra]

@Kainzo -- I like the concept but the idea that I'd lose coin, exp, and items when getting killed, plus greater incentive for others to kill me, makes me dislike the mechanics of it. I'd rather see Karma work like the force, in that the farther towards the dark side you go, the more diminishing the returns.

My suggestions:

So initially, players who start down the path of evil see more exp if they kill good or neutral mobs/players. But the more evil they get, the less reward neutral gives, to the point where eventually neutral gives no exp/coin/karma at all. Likewise, they would need to kill progressively higher-karmic beings to get full exp. Eventually only Devout or higher gives exp, then, as you get more evil, Devout only gives half exp, but Glorious gets you full exp... then eventually only Illustrious, and Glorious only gives half. Same with karmic increase as well: the greater the absolute value of your Karma, the harder it is to continue pushing your karma in that direction.

Similar for Good players.

This has quite a few advantages:
* Less incentive later on to attack those of us neutral peeps who want no part of pvp.
* Better bragging rights for the PVPers who successfully reach karmic extremes.
* Keeps the best PVPers hunting each other down instead of just anyone.

REWARDS
* Perhaps as a reward, give Karmic Powers that let you do things like track the nearest karmically opposed being that would give full xp if there's one within range.
* Killing someone with opposing karma of greater absolute value than yours yields bonus exp. The greater the difference, the greater the bonus.


This would keep gameplay balanced in favor of matching experience levels in pvp, and would take pvp to a nice meta level that encourages leaving us non-pvpers the fuck alone.

 

[kevinlive]

Yeah, I feel like there would be too many cons in PvPing, making people too neutral.

 

[Sidgil]

How will the system distinguish neutral defender and neutral attacker. I would guess using a "who hit first rule" to determined if its assualt or self defence.

 

[Danda]

• BLUE
  • 10k = [Illustrious] Title - unable to lose coins on death

• BLUE
  • 10k = More EXP Loss
  • 5k = Exp Loss per Death
  • 2k = More Coin loss %
  • 1k = Coin Loss %
  • Unable to kill without karmic loss unless RED

This is highly unbalanced atm as the 10k perk completely negates 1/2 the negative effects
While the Red spectrum gets no such benefit and also has harsher effects such as level loss.
While yes Red does need more negative effects than Blue because of the ability to kill people for loot without question but Blue players are able to thieve gold from Red players without any risk to their own and don't have to worry about Level loses as well. The only thing they can possibly lose is their current inventory which tbh is no big loss unless you're mining.

Blue needs more perks than Red but this is just ridiculous.

Killing someone within the same karmic influence will yield minimum gains.
Killing someone out of your influence will yield large gains. 5K Good player vs -5K Evil Player would mean a massive gain.
Karma decay would mean that all players would slowly slide back to 0 points.

" You have gained 10 Karma points for slaying Sleaker! "
" You have lost 10 Karma points for slaying Kainzo! "

The Karma points handed out should not be solely based on who killed who.
Say a new player to the server who has just got level 10 decides to attack a 10k Blue player who is a 55 Samurai. The Blue player has no option but to sit there and die or run. If he fights back he'll kill the grey player in seconds but will lose Vast amounts of Karma points.

Don't forget to give blue people bad karma whenever they loot a chest that they didn't place. Blue people shouldn't be allowed to steal right? Otherwise that just breaks the whole idea of them being good.

I like the idea but how do we discern whether or not they're stealing?

We're working on this right now in terms of logic.

Basically, I want "Smith-Locks" to be available for chests - created by either a magical spell or by a smith. These "locks" will safeguard chests from basic methods to open it. However, other classes will be able to break into said locks and if they do, they get hit by bad karma.

I'm really not sure how much this will take to implement but I'm staying positive.

IMO this is starting to look alot like almost infinite LWC. There needs to be more than one way into a chest.

I'd really like to see a way of identifying peoples general karma alignment!
I suggest we have the players names above their head either Red, Blue or Grey to reflect their Karma.

Only possible with spout.

Finally, to encourage PVP in its finest, balance must be achieved between good and evil. Since Evil currently gets all the free loot from murdering blue players (and let's face it, an evil player rarely carries any loot), perhaps setting automatic bounties onto them would be beneficial. It would be in a Good player's best interest to seek out and hunt down Evil players, fostering PVP between the two factions.

@Kainzo This is the way to go with Blue benefits. Perhaps an edit to the bounty system where you have acumulative bounties would be good aswell to assist with this.

Amazing, but I'd rather not see all of those negatives to being "GOOD".

Why the hell not.
Both sides should have both positive and negative effects.

I know this system needs tweeking, and it's not going to be out until it's completely configured right? Just like the auto town system was bug free on its release.

Because I saw you come and help with testing right?
Quit bitching about a buggy release when you didn't help test.

The system just rewards everyone who doesn't leave their town. The people who mine all day, never venture out past the edge of their town. None of these players have experienced the actual world, or seen any other towns usually. This is a problem to me because they're not working for shit, and they get all the rewards put on their backs when they slay 1 single person.

In my opinion, if this is implemented for real, and you're not just trolling the active fighting force of HC, I think that you should lose karma for killing animals too. That way not only the active, moving players of the server are harmed, but the lazy, town camping farmers get shit on too.

Personally I think the Karma system should not be affected by Mob kills.
It should purely be PvP whether it's killing a player or committing evil acts

 

[Graink]

Because I saw you come and help with testing right?
Quit bitching about a buggy release when you didn't help test.

I applied for guide and balance team. I don't know if it goes without saying, but it's fairly clear I wanted to apply myself to help out in certain ways. Balance team, generally, means I'd test classes mostly;
>test classes mostly
>Test classes
>test.
Anyways, if I was part of a testing group, I'd be able to test other things, I'd be informed on how they'd be testing it, and eventually, I'd help sort out the bugs.

 

[emerald_ice]

I can already guess that @FalseLuck will end up being "BAD" karma,am I righty?

 

[Danda]

I applied for guide and balance team. I don't know if it goes without saying, but it's fairly clear I wanted to apply myself to help out in certain ways. Balance team, generally, means I'd test classes mostly;
>test classes mostly
>Test classes
>test.
Anyways, if I was part of a testing group, I'd be able to test other things, I'd be informed on how they'd be testing it, and eventually, I'd help sort out the bugs.

Everything gets tested on the test server which is available to EVERYONE you do not need to be a member of the balance team in order to test. Also what does applying to test and balance classes have to do with actually testing new plugins when we need it?

 

[Kainzo]

There's no honor system. The only way to force such an honor system is to have the perks outweigh being "bad".

It's unfortunate that a system like this must come into place. Could we make it illegal to steal, illegal to kill someone and punish them with death or ban? Sure. That's not very RPG like and we don't have the staff for that.

The benefits of blue will always outweigh the benefits of red on paper because the intrinsic benefit is overwhelming for evil.
Good/neutral players generally travel fully geared, full items, etc. (I'm not saying good is dumb.. but they just aren't as prepared in most cases for that eventual butt-assault)
Bad players never do, they carry a weapon and whatever "combat" related items. When they kill they usually get loot.

 

[Kainzo]

@Kainzo -- I like the concept but the idea that I'd lose coin, exp, and items when getting killed, plus greater incentive for others to kill me, makes me dislike the mechanics of it. I'd rather see Karma work like the force, in that the farther towards the dark side you go, the more diminishing the returns.

My suggestions:

So initially, players who start down the path of evil see more exp if they kill good or neutral mobs/players. But the more evil they get, the less reward neutral gives, to the point where eventually neutral gives no exp/coin/karma at all. Likewise, they would need to kill progressively higher-karmic beings to get full exp. Eventually only Devout or higher gives exp, then, as you get more evil, Devout only gives half exp, but Glorious gets you full exp... then eventually only Illustrious, and Glorious only gives half. Same with karmic increase as well: the greater the absolute value of your Karma, the harder it is to continue pushing your karma in that direction.

Similar for Good players.

This has quite a few advantages:
* Less incentive later on to attack those of us neutral peeps who want no part of pvp.
* Better bragging rights for the PVPers who successfully reach karmic extremes.
* Keeps the best PVPers hunting each other down instead of just anyone.

REWARDS
* Perhaps as a reward, give Karmic Powers that let you do things like track the nearest karmically opposed being that would give full xp if there's one within range.
* Killing someone with opposing karma of greater absolute value than yours yields bonus exp. The greater the difference, the greater the bonus.


This would keep gameplay balanced in favor of matching experience levels in pvp, and would take pvp to a nice meta level that encourages leaving us non-pvpers the fuck alone.

That's a good read... diminishing return would be a good deterrent. The Coin loss mechanic was just one I threw in and know would be somewhat easy to code. It doesn't need/have to stay in but was an example of what could be done. If you guys have better ideas of that, I'm all for hearing them - I made this public so I could get insight from the community.

 

[TheTXLibra]

Another possible Karmic reward might be the ability to summon a controllable mount.
I COULD FINALLY GET A PONY!!!!

 

[malmenca]

Because I saw you come and help with testing right?
Quit bitching about a buggy release when you didn't help test.

The township plugin wasn't a matter of who tested it, it flat-out did not function, yet it was still implemented at the start of DG. In a sarcastic way, Graink is saying he wants it to actually work on release rather than a half-ass finished product that gets added (which does in-fact happen).