Karma System Conception...

[Graink]

Certainly not, but unless the Gengis Khan you're referring to is an anime super hero, he didn't singlehandedly conquer a damn thing. He had an army at his back of people who followed him unto death for riches and glory. You want to do the same with an evil town, be my guest. Didn't stop him when half the blue nations joined forces against him. He conquered them anyway despite the disadvantages. Are you truly an evil person to be asking for things to be FAIR? Don't disgrace the Romans by suggesting they were babaric, they treated Roman citizens quite well, had rights and liberties, and offered their enemies a chance to become one.

They were true warriors, not the petty thieves of this server. The Roman roads were among the safest in all the world, because they patrolled them regularly and MURDERED THIEVES. The Romans were blues. There's a big difference between War and highway robbery.

It's sad to know you have such a closed mind on this subject. I'm sure the people they invaded considered them to be blue as well right? People rarely consider themselves as evil, because they think what they're doing is"good" for themselves! We're a town, we fight as a group, not a single person. Sure we have bandits on occasion, but we like to fight in a pack of at least 2.

I'd say our roads are pretty safe up in gravkoc. We own the mountain at least; and our goal is expansion. We're enemies with everyone else in the multiverse, so we make a point in killing them on sight. I got class, - I'll finish this when I get back :3 Karma is still a rough idea, whether you truly are evil or not; all you have to do is kill other evil players and you become good!

 

[Kainzo]

The modifiers for evil/good have not been set in stone - leaning towards the removal of coin loss at this time.
Please note that this is conceptualizing at this point. Massive changes are afoot.

Also, yes this is a hardcore rpg server - not a hardcore pvp server. We will encourage players to make a choice on this server.

 

[FalseLuck]

It's sad to know you have such a closed mind on this subject. I'm sure the people they invaded considered them to be blue as well right? People rarely consider themselves as evil, because they think what they're doing is"good" for themselves! We're a town, we fight as a group, not a single person. Sure we have bandits on occasion, but we like to fight in a pack of at least 2.

I'd say our roads are pretty safe up in gravkoc. We own the mountain at least; and our goal is expansion. We're enemies with everyone else in the multiverse, so we make a point in killing them on sight. I got class, - I'll finish this when I get back :3 Karma is still a rough idea, whether you truly are evil or not; all you have to do is kill other evil players and you become good!

tldr; well i read the part about Genghis Khan and will assume I agree with almost everything else Graink said based on that alone, and the first paragraph of this..... Maybe I'll go back and read everything later.

 

[FalseLuck]

The modifiers for evil/good have not been set in stone - leaning towards the removal of coin loss at this time.
Please note that this is conceptualizing at this point. Massive changes are afoot.

Also, yes this is a hardcore rpg server - not a hardcore pvp server. We will encourage players to make a choice on this server.

If you could give karma points for days gone by (of actual 24h logged in to server) without killing another player.... 1=100 karma, 10 consecutive days with no pvp kills = 1,000 karma sorta deal...

 

[Kainzo]

Karma decay won't be coming in. If you want to regain karma you will need to absolve your sins via sacking levels or coin to the money gods.

 

[FalseLuck]

Karma decay won't be coming in. If you want to regain karma you will need to absolve your sins via sacking levels or coin to the money gods.

That works I was just thinking about how you said that its not a hardcorepvp server and the non-pvp'ers should have a way to push their karma in the direciton they want too

 

[Graink]

Karma decay won't be coming in. If you want to regain karma you will need to absolve your sins via sacking levels or coin to the money gods.

I actually like this idea; even if it's a payment to the gods, it's like the mafia paying off the cops to lose heat. Although some of us might like the heat, if you catch my drift.

 

[malmenca]

I like the friction if you know what I mean.

 

[SemajArchMage]

Karma is still a rough idea, whether you truly are evil or not; all you have to do is kill other evil players and you become good!

Because good and evil are entirely subjective, as I made clear two posts ago. Seems you're finally understanding that bit. Terrorists are evil because they bomb our buildings, but we're good because we bomb entire CITIES.

Morality has nothing to do with game mechanics, or even politics. However, it's others that decide whether you are good or evil, and in this case the server itself, so be sure to choose your actions wisely. If you and your friends conquer the server and mass murder all the other reds, you're about as "good" as you can possibly get. Karma and motive are mutually exclusive.

History is written by the winners. You don't win life by soloing.

 

[Northac]

Karma decay won't be coming in. If you want to regain karma you will need to absolve your sins via sacking levels or coin to the money gods.

At 1st I thought this wasnt a good way to go about this, but then I sat back and went, how would you get the money to do this? You'd have to mine and spend time NOT doing things to get bad karma so you could earn enough to lower the bad karma you do have. So it does work for that.

Yes I left out the idea of the person selling off any ill gotten gains, trying to work with the system here.

 

[FalseLuck]

Because good and evil are entirely subjective, as I made clear two posts ago. Seems you're finally understanding that bit. Terrorists are evil because they bomb our buildings, but we're good because we bomb entire CITIES.

Morality has nothing to do with game mechanics, or even politics. However, it's others that decide whether you are good or evil, and in this case the server itself, so be sure to choose your actions wisely. If you and your friends conquer the server and mass murder all the other reds, you're about as "good" as you can possibly get. Karma and motive are mutually exclusive.

History is written by the winners. You don't win life by soloing.

I think most people would consider terrorists bad because they target civilians...

Anyway as far as karma goes I'll probably end up neutral since I kill good and evil alike.

 

[SemajArchMage]

I think most people would consider terrorists bad because they target civilians...

Entirely subjective again, because the US air bombings inflicted many more civilian casualties. It makes no difference what you call yourself, you can behave the same way and still get two different titles.

 

[Graink]

:/ You're trying to come to me with a defense of "Subjective" . . . That was my whole point; that it's a subjective matter, and can't be determined with an objective karma system. What the fuck is wrong with the world these days?

 

[Joka10]

What the fuck is wrong with the world these days?

Some people think they can make the argument that slaughtering everyone in sight isn't evil...

 

[Graink]

Some people think they can make the argument that slaughtering everyone in sight isn't evil...

Once again, it's subjective. Please be punctual and consistent with your content boys.

 

[SemajArchMage]

Once again, it's subjective. Please be punctual and consistent with your content boys.

I have been. Please pay attention to people's arguments. We're not to be lumped up into categories of posters. Read again what I originally posted.

...I can easily say that not all blue players are "nice" and not all red players are "bad". But that doesn't make a lick of difference with game mechanics, so choose your side carefully.

:/ You're trying to come to me with a defense of "Subjective"

Actually that's always been my stance, and I know it's been yours too. I didn't start quoting you based on subjective analysis, I responded with this.

People who rise to power, especially politicians, do so by making friends. Regardless of whether it's legally, illegally, or sideways grayside, you don't become a politician by going on public murdering sprees in Central Park.

Essentially, Graink, you keep arguing your points without trying to understand someone else's.... regarding the subjective stuff, we've been saying the same things, and it's why I brought it up in the first place... so you could hopefully see that it fits your argument and isn't against what you believe. Instead, you took it the opposite way and decided that because disagreements on particular issues existed, your entire belief was being called into question.

Debates revolve around points, not paragraphs. I can disagree with one point without you defending your entire thesis. Honestly, what's wrong with the world is people arguing like siege tanks... you don't need to hanker down and fire pot shots at all who oppose you.

The Karma system does not accurately portray good or evil, nor shall it ever or possibly can, when these terms are subjective even in reality. What it does portray is those who choose to openly operate outside the communal guidelines versus those who exploit them from within.

 

[Graink]

Entirely subjective again, because the US air bombings inflicted many more civilian casualties. It makes no difference what you call yourself, you can behave the same way and still get two different titles.

This is just sad. I'll try and break it down to the simplest of forms to suit your needs.

First of all, I found it funny how you quoted my reply to Joka thinking it meant something towards you, but you couldn't see that my "subjective argument" was in response to your message to Falseluck. Quoting yourself in that last post was just pointless because I wasn't talking about what you "Originally posted", I was talking about your message to him.

Now I understand your points of view were based around the subjective idea of karma; but that doesn't change the fact that we can come to power any which was we want in this game. Our destiny is at our own disposal. I was merely trying to bring up shy examples of where people have come to power in real life over murder and triumph. Like I've mentioned about 10+ times now, this is a mother fucking video game. In real life, you can't pick up lava with a steel bucket and carry it around, nor would you run into the wild with nothing but pork and a diamond shovel looking for someone to kill. It's a game about having fun your own way, and we enjoy killing people. If it's the fact of killing someone and enjoying it that you don't understand, I can give you a good couple examples of murderous tribes in the past that strive on killing people out of random, out of territorial or out of personal survival means.

It's not that I don't see your point of view, I just don't see any value in it. I completely 100% understand where you're coming from, but it's a close minded stand point. I'd rather everyone do what ever the hell they want; where you, and everyone else it seems, would rather more game restrictions and a smaller game.

-As for your little sign off, I can't make much sense of it. Sure debates revolve around points, blah blah, thanks for the lesson, but what the second sentence really doesn't make sense to me.

 

[malmenca]

@SemajArchMage In contrast to what Graink said, you stated "People who rise to power, especially Politicians, do so by making friends..." He understood what you said, and responded with a convincing, fact based rebuttal (Ghengis khan didn't make friends to rise to power) In response to Graink, you proceeded to subtly concede the point and then go on about quite a different topic. Which then led to you both @Graink @SemajArchMage arguing about good/bad being subjective. You guys agree its subjective. 'Nuff salad Calm yo tits.

 

[Falker57]

I have read through the first 3 pages and havnt gone farther because I am lazy but I think the main thing people are worried about is "Crafters and builders get rewarded for doing nothing". The point is they arnt doing anything. Well, if they arnt doing anything then they shouldnt be playing but its the fact that they arnt pvping (which is what most of you consider "nothing") that makes them good. I like the idea of a karma system but a whole level on death seems drastic. Especially if your getting camped.

 

[SemajArchMage]

@malmenca I responded saying Ghengis Khan had friends of his own, and that if Graink wished to follow in his footsteps, he should not be complaining about the disadvantages he will face in doing so. Ghengis Khan conquered despite them. The point was not conceded, it was rebutted. Even warlords need an army to conquer with.

Red, blue, grey, it's just a playstyle. Doesn't make you any more or less of a bastard. The only thing the karma system will accomplish is balancing out the playstyles, as currently the red style is highly rewarding.