Karma System Conception...

[Danda]

The township plugin wasn't a matter of who tested it, it flat-out did not function, yet it was still implemented at the start of DG. In a sarcastic way, Graink is saying he wants it to actually work on release rather than a half-ass finished product that gets added (which does in-fact happen).

Go on I'd like to see you test building multiple towns with one person...

There are some things you cannot test on your own.

Anyway lets drop this subject as we are de-railing the thread somewhat.

 

[Kainzo]

The township plugin wasn't a matter of who tested it, it flat-out did not function, yet it was still implemented at the start of DG. In a sarcastic way, Graink is saying he wants it to actually work on release rather than a half-ass finished product that gets added (which does in-fact happen).

It was implemented and we still did the regions by hand for players. We didnt throw people to the wolves here.
Stay on topic.

 

[Graink]

Go on I'd like to see you test building multiple towns with one person...

There are some things you cannot test on your own.

Anyway lets drop this subject as we are de-railing the thread somewhat.

Whether we apply ourselves to testing or not - is it not logical to submit at fully functional and corrected final work. I doubt you could get away with telling a college professor "I didn't have anyone to test this, that's why it's not up to the described standards." unless you're in a special college where nothing is ever you fault, it's only third party players faults who aren't part of a staff system.

It wasn't derailing the subject because the karma system needs active testers who can sort out all the bugs.

Back on the actual content of the karma system - I believe this is seeming to become more and more of a morale system. Although the karma system in most games translates to morale, I'm talking more about an ethical, human morale stand point. It's trying to make people do good, and if they do bad, shitty things will happen to them. It's a good life lesson, but it's complete horse shit.
Those who do good don't always go places in life, an those who do bad either. For the most part, (I assume at least 1 - 2 people follow politics here) people hate politicians because they do whatever they can to rise to power. Especially in America; there are theories, speculation, facts and fiction about how certain entities have rose to power, and it's not always because they're "good" people. I think being bad has a lot of advantages in real life, so I figured it should translate as such into games trying to emulate real life.

There's also just a lot wrong with the whole idea; from exploits, to glitches, to just plain abuse. It'll happen out of anger towards the plugin, or just on accident.

 

[Danda]

It wasn't derailing the subject because the karma system needs active testers who can sort out all the bugs.

Was more refering to me and you fighting/arguing but anyway.

 

[Eldrylars]

Back on the tracks of the conception of a Karma system

A Karma system for identification of RPKs and for the role player aspect is a great idea and with minimal direct effects on gameplay it's not a big deal to get it going.

A Karma system that takes it one step further by changing major gameplay aspects(xp/level loss, loss of access to areas like spawn, loss of coin...) gets harder to balance.

I would ask, are we trying to add another RP aspect to the game or are we trying to add another specialization to the game?

If it's the later then it should honestly be approached not only from a balance team aspect but also a gameplay aspect. If we add a forced spec of BLUE, Neutral or RED then its going to change the landscape (possibly for better) greatly.
Players that may have raided an enemy city under the current system may not want to do so anymore to prevent from going "RED." Players may have a harder time defending, if their town or home is being attacked to prevent themselves from losing Karma. "BLUE" players will have one more thing to have to ponder when they see someone on the hill above. Not just is that guy going to attack me but how is this going to effect my karma.

I do NOT indorse a pay to pray system. Although it works in the real world that if you have money you can get away with murder, it does not fit any RP aspect of this game.
I would suggest that with gains and losses from killing the only other way to reduce your negative alignment is to play and wait. Perhaps every 1 hour of in game time without a murder will bring you +5 karma (25hrs = 120 karma.) With this system someone trying to change their path can hunt RED players while not killing BLUE players for a slight bonus.

Please note the below suggestions would turn this Karma system into a more BLUE vs RED system while still giving some attempt to stop some of the RPK. I attempted to make most skills and bonus reflect a separate system in the game.
Off the top of my head some Spec bonus I endorse are as follows:

BLUE:
All ranks - RED aligned guards (RED npc town?) will attack the player on site. Name shows up in blue in chat and quest line for BLUE aligned players in game
1k+ - Continuation of the BLUE player quest line. 2% XP Bonus. Coins gained from killing RED player(1c per 1k alignment)

2k+ - Continuation of the BLUE player quest line awarding [Devout] Title. 4% XP Bonus. 0 XP loss on death from RED players.

5k+ - Continuation of the BLUE player quest line awarding [Glorious] Title. 6% XP Bonus. +5 bonus damage to RED players. Skill - Divine Pardon


10k - finale of the BLUE player quest line awarding [Illustrious] Title. 10% XP Bonus. Skill - Holy Light(see below)

Neutral:
Business as usual. Name shows up in white in game.

RED:
All ranks - BLUE aligned guards (Spawn) will attack the player on site. Name shows up in red in chat and quest line for RED aligned players in game
1k+ - Continuation of the RED player quest line. +2 bonus damage to BLUE players. Coins gained from killing BLUE player(1c per 1k alignment). +80% XP loss on death

2k+ - Continuation of the RED player quest line awarding [Devious] Title. +4 bonus damage to BLUE players. Double XP gains on killing BLUE players(TIMER ONCE PER PLAYER PER X HOURS). +120% XP loss on death

5k+ - Continuation of the RED player quest line awarding [Infamous] Title. +7 bonus damage to BLUE players. +200% XP loss on death. Skill - Dark Blessing

10k - finale of the RED player quest line awarding [Dread] Title. +150% PVP XP. Skill - Gagging Mists(see below). +300% XP loss on death(approx 140xp pvp/400-2500 PVE).

Skills Example:
Divine Pardon - Passive, 120 Minute cooldown, activates on death negating xp loss.

Dark Blessing - Passive, 120 Minute cooldown, activate on death by a BLUE player. Instead of losing coins you gain the amount of coins relative to your Karma and your killer loses the same amount. 1k Karma = 1c

Holy Light - 40 Mana, 1 Sec Warmup, 30 Minute cooldown. All RED players within 10 blocks are blinded by holy light for 2 seconds. This skill will also effect party members

Gagging Mists - 60 Mana, 0 Sec Warmup, 30 Minute cooldown. All BLUE players within 12 blocks are slowed by gagging mists for 2.5 seconds. This skill will also effect party members

 

[kevinlive]

I love eldry's ideas of the cons and pros.

 

[Roadkill909]

Not sure if this is already suggested but your party's actions should affect your karma. Just like exp, I think karma should be shared or distributed among a party.

The reason for this is this system breaks down for support and utility classes. For example I'm a healer, and I could run around all day helping a good or evil player kill other players with absolutely no consequences or benefits.

 

[Eldrylars]

Forgot to mention this above but I started a second thread to talk about hurdles, pitfalls and exploits that could arise from a Karma system HERE
Please take a look and make sure to add any potential problems to the list (such as party share) to make sure the system is as air tight as possible when it comes out

 

[Eldrylars]

Updated my original post above adding two more skill examples for skills that would not directly effect normal gameplay but would effect a Good vs Evil system.

 

[StealthPotato]

From first post: Sentry - "Good" guards would attack "Bad" players / vice versa


Is CONCORD going to be chasing my ass for life if I start pickpocketing?

 

[Danda]

From first post: Sentry - "Good" guards would attack "Bad" players / vice versa
Is CONCORD going to be chasing my ass for life if I start pickpocketing?

It's good to see another eve player
I keep trying to make references to how Concord works but no one gets it =[

On a side note CONCORDOKKEN!

 

[SemajArchMage]

Those who do good don't always go places in life, an those who do bad either. For the most part, (I assume at least 1 - 2 people follow politics here) people hate politicians because they do whatever they can to rise to power. Especially in America; there are theories, speculation, facts and fiction about how certain entities have rose to power, and it's not always because they're "good" people. I think being bad has a lot of advantages in real life, so I figured it should translate as such into games trying to emulate real life.

People who rise to power, especially politicians, do so by making friends. Regardless of whether it's legally, illegally, or sideways grayside, you don't become a politician by going on public murdering sprees in Central Park. Having played the Rallos Zek of EQ and knowing full well that some players chose to go anti-PK simply because it gave them an excuse to hunt down and murder players without repurcussion or status loss, which the community THANKED them for and showered them with gifts, I can easily say that not all blue players are "nice" and not all red players are "bad". But that doesn't make a lick of difference with game mechanics, so choose your side carefully.

 

[Graink]

People who rise to power, especially politicians, do so by making friends. Regardless of whether it's legally, illegally, or sideways grayside, you don't become a politician by going on public murdering sprees in Central Park. Having played the Rallos Zek of EQ and knowing full well that some players chose to go anti-PK simply because it gave them an excuse to hunt down and murder players without repurcussion or status loss, which the community THANKED them for and showered them with gifts, I can easily say that not all blue players are "nice" and not all red players are "bad". But that doesn't make a lick of difference with game mechanics, so choose your side carefully.

You're telling me Gengis khan rose to power by making friends with his opposing tribes? Or the Romans - they sure liked to play cards with their foes before taking their lands didn't they? We're they bad people? Maybe. Did they have power? Abso-fucking-lutely. I just hate how now-a-days everyone thinks of politics as today's politics. I simply put an example cause I figured no one else cared about the past, which seems even more plausible after this reply. We're a town based on domination, architecture and just having a good fucking time. I don't know why there has to be so many restrictions against PVP. I think if there were a good/bad side of things; let the bad people do whatever the hell they please, and the good people can hunt them down after they've killed someone. Much like police, if you want to be good, you hire good police.

 

[SemajArchMage]

You're telling me Gengis khan rose to power by making friends with his opposing tribes?

Certainly not, but unless the Gengis Khan you're referring to is an anime super hero, he didn't singlehandedly conquer a damn thing. He had an army at his back of people who followed him unto death for riches and glory. You want to do the same with an evil town, be my guest. Didn't stop him when half the blue nations joined forces against him. He conquered them anyway despite the disadvantages. Are you truly an evil person to be asking for things to be FAIR? Don't disgrace the Romans by suggesting they were babaric, they treated Roman citizens quite well, had rights and liberties, and offered their enemies a chance to become one.

They were true warriors, not the petty thieves of this server. The Roman roads were among the safest in all the world, because they patrolled them regularly and MURDERED THIEVES. The Romans were blues. There's a big difference between War and highway robbery.

 

[Sidgil]

Certainly not, but unless the Gengis Khan you're referring to is an anime super hero, he didn't singlehandedly conquer a damn thing. He had an army at his back of people who followed him unto death for riches and glory. You want to do the same with an evil town, be my guest. Didn't stop him when half the blue nations joined forces against him. He conquered them anyway despite the disadvantages. Are you truly an evil person to be asking for things to be FAIR? Don't disgrace the Romans by suggesting they were babaric, they treated Roman citizens quite well, had rights and liberties, and offered their enemies a chance to become one.

They were true warriors, not the petty thieves of this server. The Roman roads were among the safest in all the world, because they patrolled them regularly and MURDERED THIEVES. The Romans were blues. There's a big difference between War and highway robbery.

We should do this.

 

[FalseLuck]

I can already guess that @FalseLuck will end up being "BAD" karma,am I righty?

Psh I save noobs all the time.

 

[Sidgil]

Psh I save noobs all the time.

Iunno man, I've watched you in a pvp, I made sure to give you space.

 

[FalseLuck]

Iunno man, I've watched you in a pvp, I made sure to give you space.

You're not a noob though...

I gave this kid all of his stuff back yesterday after I killed the person that killed him

Though I have to admit I do have a tendency to attack anything that moves :/

 

[Sidgil]

You're not a noob though...

I gave this kid all of his stuff back yesterday after I killed the person that killed him

Though I have to admit I do have a tendency to attack anything that moves :/

Pfft, I am so a noob. I'll be sure to stand still when i see you then.

 

[FalseLuck]

Pfft, I am so a noob. I'll be sure to stand still when i see you then.

I'm like a t-rex