Best and worst classes

[_Trains_]

Someone said they're working on a loot sharing system; this would fix the problem. Grinding buddies who share loot are extremely rare, that's what I'm saying. Unless you're only grinding with a couple people at most, there's no way you'll be able to get all 6 people or whatever to share loot, they'll just dodge the question, and nobody's willing to kick a party member out for not sharing loot. It goes back to Herocraft having a bad community. There are exceptions, but in general, Wizard and I hear Beguiler are bad for making money. Beguiler is good from what I've heard, but not as good as Ranger for soloing. So that leaves Ranger as the only good ranged class.

Do I need to point out again that we are in a argument?
There will be absolutely no way somebody will win this argument, only forfeits.
Wizard has their pros and cons, which is why certain people like/dislike them. Right now, this argument has gone on for so long now we are beginning to talk about wizard on a personal level.
If we want someone to take our side, we should present them with stats, pros, anything. But once they make a personal decision about a class, then there is no winner.

 

[LordZelkova]

Someone said they're working on a loot sharing system; this would fix the problem. Grinding buddies who share loot are extremely rare, that's what I'm saying. Unless you're only grinding with a couple people at most, there's no way you'll be able to get all 6 people or whatever to share loot, they'll just dodge the question, and nobody's willing to kick a party member out for not sharing loot. It goes back to Herocraft having a bad community. There are exceptions, but in general, Wizard and I hear Beguiler are bad for making money. Beguiler is good from what I've heard, but not as good as Ranger for soloing. So that leaves Ranger as the only good ranged class.

You really can't find 2-3 FRIENDS to grind with and share loot? Are you completely void of not shitty friends?
Also, why are you talking about combat classes making money? Outside of Utility Skills (I.e Port or Teleport or Hellgaate or Track), the money makers are Professions. It's why they exist.

 

[Lumify]

Do I need to point out again that we are in a argument?
There will be absolutely no way somebody will win this argument, only forfeits.
Wizard has their pros and cons, which is why certain people like/dislike them. Right now, this argument has gone on for so long now we are beginning to talk about wizard on a personal level.
If we want someone to take our side, we should present them with stats, pros, anything. But once they make a personal decision about a class, then there is no winner.

Ok, pros and cons. I think this should be somewhat fair:

Wizard has low defense, average attack, high mobility. Wizards and Dragoons have the highest mobility in the game. This is their primary benefit, giving them a fair chance in pvp. Unlike Rangers, Wizards have 3 instant damage skills which allow them to keep moving and kite their opponents. Fireball and Iceball are skill shots, providing an incentive to become skilled at aiming, similar to Ranger; however, they can keep moving as they make these skill shots. The ability to move and attack is very useful against players. Mobility isn't a big concern against minions though, as nobody has a problem escaping them; however Blink can be useful to escape when surrounded. Wizard's average attack means that it can't take enemies down very fast, and must instead rely on its mobility to stay alive with such little health. In pvp, this means Wizards become a frustrating opponent to melee players who must chase it down to do any damage. Dungeon elites and bosses will easily kill even the most proficient wizard because mobility doesn't help against teleport and forcepull, meaning wizards must rely on party members to aggro elites and bosses at all times.

In a dungeon party, wizard's average attack can be somewhat useful, but its primary benefit in a party is its ability to bypass mob invincibility. Because all of its attacks land, wizard is a reliable damage dealer in isolated boss fights with large parties, such as the golem boss when lured onto the grass. However, in most circumstances, wizard will occasionally aggro a mob, and must run completely out of range so a teammate can take the aggro. This is viable in some spread-out dungeons where the wizard can flee to a safe location, but in Ivory City, Sky City, and Desert Town, there's nowhere to run without finding more mobs.

In pvp, a skilled wizard is able to avoid taking damage from the enemy through maneuverability while inflicting damage at a short distance. In dungeons, maneuverability means nothing and the wizard is easily crushed because it cannot kill mobs faster than the mobs can kill it.

 

[_Trains_]

Ok, pros and cons. I think this should be somewhat fair:

Wizard has low defense, average attack, high mobility. Wizards and Dragoons have the highest mobility in the game. This is their primary benefit, giving them a fair chance in pvp. Unlike Rangers, Wizards have 3 instant damage skills which allow them to keep moving and kite their opponents. Fireball and Iceball are skill shots, providing an incentive to become skilled at aiming, similar to Ranger; however, they can keep moving as they make these skill shots. The ability to move and attack is very useful against players. Mobility isn't a big concern against minions though, as nobody has a problem escaping them; however Blink can be useful to escape when surrounded. Wizard's average attack means that it can't take enemies down very fast, and must instead rely on its mobility to stay alive with such little health. In pvp, this means Wizards become a frustrating opponent to melee players who must chase it down to do any damage. Dungeon elites and bosses will easily kill even the most proficient wizard because mobility doesn't help against teleport and forcepull, meaning wizards must rely on party members to aggro elites and bosses at all times.

In a dungeon party, wizard's average attack can be somewhat useful, but its primary benefit in a party is its ability to bypass mob invincibility. Because all of its attacks land, wizard is a reliable damage dealer in isolated boss fights with large parties, such as the golem boss when lured onto the grass. However, in most circumstances, wizard will occasionally aggro a mob, and must run completely out of range so a teammate can take the aggro. This is viable in some spread-out dungeons where the wizard can flee to a safe location, but in Ivory City, Sky City, and Desert Town, there's nowhere to run without finding more mobs.

In pvp, a skilled wizard is able to avoid taking damage from the enemy through maneuverability while inflicting damage at a short distance. In dungeons, maneuverability means nothing and the wizard is easily crushed because it cannot kill mobs faster than the mobs can kill it.

Nice. Now, I want you to possibly do this for every class. Just this. Then, newbies can look at this and go:
"Hey, I like the fact that Ninjas can use track! I will be a ninja".

This would be better then having a list. Just give the info, and let the player decide what he thinks is the best/worst, because some people fight better with different classes.

 

[Lumify]

You really can't find 2-3 FRIENDS to grind with and share loot? Are you completely void of not shitty friends?
Also, why are you talking about combat classes making money? Outside of Utility Skills (I.e Port or Teleport or Hellgaate or Track), the money makers are Professions. It's why they exist.

It seems you haven't played recently. Port and Hellgate are obsolete because of Warp and a Nexus nether portal. Most professions these days are useless because of things like custom crafting killing enchanter, and warp and Heaven's Gate killing Runesmith. Mining can make any class money (profession is irrelevant), but playing dungeons is faster. Of course, Rangers are notoriously good solo dungeon grinders, training faster and making much more money than most other classes because their damage is so good.

I don't have a ton of close friends on Herocraft. Most people on the server are greedy and not very bright; they're too short-sighted to realize that having a Ranger grind with them and sharing loot would earn us more loot than them just grinding with other melee classes. I do have one friend who's a necromancer, and it's fun grinding together. There just aren't many people with 2 brain cells to tell them "hey if I share loot with the Ranger we can make more total!"

 

[Lumify]

Nice. Now, I want you to possibly do this for every class. Just this. Then, newbies can look at this and go:
"Hey, I like the fact that Ninjas can use track! I will be a ninja".

This would be better then having a list. Just give the info, and let the player decide what he thinks is the best/worst, because some people fight better with different classes.

I might write up similar things for more classes as I play them. Dungeons and PVP are quite different. Wizard might be good in PVP, but it's bad in dungeons. Yeah, it can bypass invincibility, but that's the only redeeming feature. Most of the gameplay is dungeons, so I think it's rightfully bad. An exception might be a maxed out Sorcerer who mostly PVPs and can dungeon about as well as the average tier 1 class.

 

[Ice]

I can land all my fireballs and iceballs, and keep all my skills on cooldown constantly. I can kite so nobody can hit me. I still did mediocre damage. When your damage is bad, you can't dungeon. You need to kill monsters before more spawn, otherwise you're fighting 5 of them and you have to run. Fighting elites was out of the question. They would only hit me when they used unavoidable skills like teleport. My damage was bad, and I was playing the class correctly, with no skill problem.

I love glass cannon skill-based classes. The wizard is not a glass cannon because its damage is bad, even with skill. Maybe it's good in pvp with entangle and snowball, but those kinds of skills are bad in pve, and pvp on Herocraft is dead.

LOL

also everything you say in this thread contradicts yourself.

as well as that you're complaining about PvE classes were designed around PvP, you honestly think balance members would sit down and say "Hmm, we should give Wizard PvE viability!" no they did not because the dungeon system we have right now was not made back then and kainzo and multiple others have clearly stated that dungeons are to be a group thing.

what I really don't get is why you're complaining "oh wizzy is bad ranger is godlike for farming" then GO FUCKING RANGER AND STOP WHINING. you pretty much answered your whole argument when you first said that.

 

[xMJay]

and pvp on Herocraft is dead.

 

[LightTheAbsol]

This has reached three pages, like, why?

If you really want to do dungeons, just play any class and stand on a 2 high block near a boss spawner.

Then EVERY class is viable. Just some more then others.

 

[Lumify]

LOL

also everything you say in this thread contradicts yourself.

as well as that you're complaining about PvE classes were designed around PvP, you honestly think balance members would sit down and say "Hmm, we should give Wizard PvE viability!" no they did not because the dungeon system we have right now was not made back then and kainzo and multiple others have clearly stated that dungeons are to be a group thing.

what I really don't get is why you're complaining "oh wizzy is bad ranger is godlike for farming" then GO FUCKING RANGER AND STOP WHINING. you pretty much answered your whole argument when you first said that.

That's why balance members exist, to sit down and say "let's make this class viable in the upcoming update". That's their job. Even with a group, it's still only good when you lure the golem onto the grass, away from random minion/elite spawns.

I did switch from Wizard to Ranger because Ranger's a playable class. I still think Wizard should be playable.

What do you do in this game? If you're a low level or a weak class, you go to Ivory City and grind the minion just over the bridge, retreating back to the bridge so more don't spawn. If you're a high level, you go deeper into the city. Maybe you fight some bosses, occasionally going tier 6. But I go to tier 6 dungeons all the time as a Ranger (because you know, Rangers can...) and I've only had one pvp encounter. They really need to get rid of pve above tier 3. And tier 1 and 2 are pointlessly weak, but that's a tangent.

 

[Lumify]

This has reached three pages, like, why?

Wizard's bad and everyone's mad about it so they yell at me or come up with blatantly false excuses. Meanwhile I'm just posting what all of the knowledgeable players already knew.

 

[JacobBurkey]

Wizard's bad and everyone's mad about it so they yell at me or come up with blatantly false excuses. Meanwhile I'm just posting what all of the knowledgeable players already knew.

Holy shit I hate having to even respond to your cancer, I am literally losing brain cells reading what you're saying. Wizard isn't fucking bad, you're just bad at the game. Accept that bud. Quit crying and bitching and get off the forums if you're going to argue with everyone and throw a fit because other people have opinoins. The only spam on this thread is you posting the same shit over and over. You said "posting what all of the knowledgeable players already know", but you literally got fucking roasted by irishman and others who know what they're talking about multiple times on the topic

You're cancer.

lmao ur an idiot

I would just close this thread or something, nothing is going to come of it. Any thread claiming that good classes are bad does not belong anywhere.

I was going to make a post about how pretty much everything here is incorrect and stupid, but that requires too much effort. Wizard is a fantastic class, if people think it's bad it means they lack any sort of skill.

 

[SiredFox]

" Mob aggroing is too quirky to keep them aggro'd on your tank 100% of the time, so occasionally the Wizard will draw aggro. Aggro is really sticky; you can't get them off you once they've decided they want to chase you."

@Lumify Your aggro argument is invalid. A mob stays aggro'd on the first one to deal damage that surpasses a certain threshold on it.. so if a mob aggro's you and you have not hit it, just continue to dodge it. someone else can easily come take that aggro with a few hits.

 

[Lumify]

" Mob aggroing is too quirky to keep them aggro'd on your tank 100% of the time, so occasionally the Wizard will draw aggro. Aggro is really sticky; you can't get them off you once they've decided they want to chase you."

@Lumify Your aggro argument is invalid. A mob stays aggro'd on the first one to deal damage that surpasses a certain threshold on it.. so if a mob aggro's you and you have not hit it, just continue to dodge it. someone else can easily come take that aggro with a few hits.

In theory this should work, but it is very uncommon. This is why Ninjas work so well, someone can aggro a boss and run around forever while the Ninja damages it. You can say "no, aggro's not like that" but then again, I've played the game and observed this myself. People act as if they can change the facts by ganging up on me. No, I'm just saying how it is. If you want it to be different, ask the admins to change it, don't just pretend things are different. That's so fucking weird. (that all wasn't completely towards you Sired, but towards everyone who makes incorrect statements about game mechanics)

Holy shit I hate having to even respond to your cancer, I am literally losing brain cells reading what you're saying. Wizard isn't fucking bad, you're just bad at the game. Accept that bud. Quit crying and bitching and get off the forums if you're going to argue with everyone and throw a fit because other people have opinoins. The only spam on this thread is you posting the same shit over and over. You said "posting what all of the knowledgeable players already know", but you literally got fucking roasted by irishman and others who know what they're talking about multiple times on the topic

I see you've disagreed with all of my posts, because unpopular facts are somehow no longer facts in your world. I'm backing up everything I say about Wizard being bad, but people would rather ignore the facts I present and act as if everything's fine. Sorry I don't live in your perfect little fantasy world, but you can stop disagreeing with all of my posts and adding to the hate. My message of wizard's badness isn't a hateful one, it's a longing one. I love the play style, and I want it to be viable in modern Herocraft.

 

[LordZelkova]

I'm backing up everything I say about Wizard being bad, but people would rather ignore the facts I present and act as if everything's fine.

Please show me these facts. Somehow I must've missed them.

 

[Egorh]

You dense motherfucker disciple best class

 

[Lumify]

You dense motherfucker disciple best class

I have no idea. My source said it's bad because of low damage and bad heals. As a support class, it makes sense to have low damage, but if the heals are bad, the support is useless. Look at Bard and Cleric, those are two awesome classes with Accelerando and great healing, everyone wants them in a party. Again, maybe it has some other redeeming quality, and I have to try it myself before making a positive statement like I can make for Ranger and Wizard.

Please show me these facts. Somehow I must've missed them.

My post after your first post gives a quite straightforward review of the class. I don't think this summary is biased or opinionated.

Ok, pros and cons. I think this should be somewhat fair:

Wizard has low defense, average attack, high mobility. Wizards and Dragoons have the highest mobility in the game. This is their primary benefit, giving them a fair chance in pvp. Unlike Rangers, Wizards have 3 instant damage skills which allow them to keep moving and kite their opponents. Fireball and Iceball are skill shots, providing an incentive to become skilled at aiming, similar to Ranger; however, they can keep moving as they make these skill shots. The ability to move and attack is very useful against players. Mobility isn't a big concern against minions though, as nobody has a problem escaping them; however Blink can be useful to escape when surrounded. Wizard's average attack means that it can't take enemies down very fast, and must instead rely on its mobility to stay alive with such little health. In pvp, this means Wizards become a frustrating opponent to melee players who must chase it down to do any damage. Dungeon elites and bosses will easily kill even the most proficient wizard because mobility doesn't help against teleport and forcepull, meaning wizards must rely on party members to aggro elites and bosses at all times.

In a dungeon party, wizard's average attack can be somewhat useful, but its primary benefit in a party is its ability to bypass mob invincibility. Because all of its attacks land, wizard is a reliable damage dealer in isolated boss fights with large parties, such as the golem boss when lured onto the grass. However, in most circumstances, wizard will occasionally aggro a mob, and must run completely out of range so a teammate can take the aggro. This is viable in some spread-out dungeons where the wizard can flee to a safe location, but in Ivory City, Sky City, and Desert Town, there's nowhere to run without finding more mobs.

In pvp, a skilled wizard is able to avoid taking damage from the enemy through maneuverability while inflicting damage at a short distance. In dungeons, maneuverability means nothing and the wizard is easily crushed because it cannot kill mobs faster than the mobs can kill it.

By the way, what do you disagree with in my other post? Mob aggro mechanics, or me explaining my frustration with delusional people? I'm seeing your disagree vote as an emotional attack with no logical validity, similar to how @JacobBurkey voted facepalm on my unrelated suggestion thread (which happened to be accepted by Kainzo).

 

[RegularHumanMode]

I don't think this summary is biased or opinionated.

Ha. Ha ha.

No.

It seems you haven't played recently. Port and Hellgate are obsolete because of Warp and a Nexus nether portal. Most professions these days are useless because of things like custom crafting killing enchanter, and warp and Heaven's Gate killing Runesmith. Mining can make any class money (profession is irrelevant), but playing dungeons is faster. Of course, Rangers are notoriously good solo dungeon grinders, training faster and making much more money than most other classes because their damage is so good.

I don't have a ton of close friends on Herocraft. Most people on the server are greedy and not very bright; they're too short-sighted to realize that having a Ranger grind with them and sharing loot would earn us more loot than them just grinding with other melee classes. I do have one friend who's a necromancer, and it's fun grinding together. There just aren't many people with 2 brain cells to tell them "hey if I share loot with the Ranger we can make more total!"

Maybe you would have more friends if you did not try to compensate for your own dumbass-ery by calling everyone else brain-dead children?

 

[xMJay]

You dense motherfucker disciple best class

im pretty sure this thread is about the viability of classes in pve. thank god im not playing anymore

 

[Kurrelgyre]

Could someone with forum powers close this thread, maybe even remove it? The thread has devolved to personal insults, repeating the same thing, and Lumify being wrecked like a ship trying to dock a coast at midnight, with no lighthouse. The only discussions I see are people trying to tell Lumify how Herocraft works, and him whining about HC not being exactly like other mmo's, where a team of professionals set everything in stone first, and then add content updates. With HC, it's constantly being reworked. Total overhauls to mechanics are a constant. And I find that amazing about the server. There is always something new or exciting, some new update, a new way the game works, classes have been fixed/changed. But that's not what is being discussed. Here we have would could have been an interesting, and possibly enlightening thread. However, it was created by the wrong person, and flooded with half-baked ideals that come from playing a class for a small amount of time, and hearsay. Classes are balanced for their role in PvP, and some can make it dungeon easily. That's just how the class plays. The rest are all balanced for their role in PvP, but with constant dungeon changed it is impossible to balance it in PvE as well, without fucking the PvP balances. Not to mention the dungeon is designed to be played with a party, so using "ranger can work in T6 no problem" as your argument is like saying, "This class that hasn't been reformed to the new dungeon changed is op in pve and every class I like should be like that, because I want to instantly play the class I like easily." To restate my point, close this thread. It can only go downhill from here.