Best and worst classes

[Lumify]

Looks like someone is a little upset. This isn't spam, and there is no reason why you should be reporting anyone.

@WitchOnaRampage Just want to make sure you see this so this report doesn't get @iThaumaturge banned/reported.

Read the post, he said he's disregarding everything I say, in my thread. This discussion is absolute trash. This was an attempt to provide a resource to noobs and discuss the topic. It's just a bunch of immature people who can't handle the fact that their favorite class isn't good. Seriously, people are attacking the thread for failing to include all the classes that people don't consider good or bad, simply because there's nothing to attack.

 

[_Trains_]

Read the post, he said he's disregarding everything I say, in my thread. This discussion is absolute trash. This was an attempt to provide a resource to noobs and discuss the topic. It's just a bunch of immature people who can't handle the fact that their favorite class isn't good. Seriously, people are attacking the thread for failing to include all the classes that people don't consider good or bad, simply because there's nothing to attack.

So, you are reporting the message below for SPAM, even though he is clearly stating that he disagrees with your post? The definition of spam is: "To send the same message indiscriminately to (large numbers of recipients) on the Internet." He sent you ONE message, and you report him for spam.

First off, I think that I wouldn't call my audience immature, especially if I wanted their approval on something. If I were you, I would have been more open to why people think my post isn't the way people want it to be.

Second of all, ACTUALLY LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE. If everyone is saying that wizard is amazing, then put wizard at the top. You even stated on the first post:

This isn't necessarily complete, it's open to adjustments if anyone would like to add.

Get an admin to take the post down. If you cannot manage your own post like a regular human being without being upset, I suggest you don't make posts where you can easily get upset if people disagree with your post.

I think you use the "oh this isn't my opinion, just someone else's that I know" to use that as an excuse later on, because you predicted that we would get mad over this.

 

[_Trains_]

It's just a bunch of immature people who can't handle the fact that their favorite class isn't good

On a sidenote, I do not see why you are calling us immature, when it was you who was muted by Kainzo for saying stupid shit.

@Irishman81 @iThaumaturge @JacobBurkey @Dafefman It isn't just in this post where we see signs of ridiculousness from @Lumify, but it seems to have originated the second he became a member:

 

[RegularHumanMode]

On a sidenote, I do not see why you are calling us immature, when it was you who was muted by Kainzo for saying stupid shit.

@Irishman81 @iThaumaturge @JacobBurkey @Dafefman It isn't just in this post where we see signs of ridiculousness from @Lumify, but it seems to have originated the second he became a member:

While I enjoy the surprisingly thorough research you put into that post, this is just turning into an argument.

Let's all just step away from the keyboard and drink some water to wash out this salt... If anyone has anything USEFUL to add, please, go ahead. If not, let's just walk away from this.

 

[iAlchemist]

Read the post, he said he's disregarding everything I say, in my thread. This discussion is absolute trash. This was an attempt to provide a resource to noobs and discuss the topic. It's just a bunch of immature people who can't handle the fact that their favorite class isn't good. Seriously, people are attacking the thread for failing to include all the classes that people don't consider good or bad, simply because there's nothing to attack.

I have the full right to disregard what you say, or whatever anyone else says on this particular website within reason, especially when it's filth like this where you sit here and and trash classes because that don't suit you.

I mastered every single class last map, except Beguiler. Even Darkmaster. I can say with certainty that each class has a niche in pvp, and if you struggle to grasp that, then what are you doing here? You try to say wizard is bad because you can't play wizard. You're dead wrong. Wizard kicks serious ass if you actually have the skill set to play it. Every class has a niche, a purpose behind it, in and out of combat. Now, go look at your post, and maybe recognize that, instead of starting dramatic bullshit where you try to get me banned or reported for disregarding your opinions. You can't try to play the ban card for someone disagreeing with you, especially when the statement is blatantly wrong.

So be it, report me. We will see the outcome of your drama.

 

[Irishman81]

Read the post, he said he's disregarding everything I say, in my thread. This discussion is absolute trash. This was an attempt to provide a resource to noobs and discuss the topic. It's just a bunch of immature people who can't handle the fact that their favorite class isn't good. Seriously, people are attacking the thread for failing to include all the classes that people don't consider good or bad, simply because there's nothing to attack.

Providing inaccurate "resources" to noobs is a terrible way to go. No class on this server is in that bad of shape, and just looking at the list of "bad" classes makes me very sad about the perception some people have of the classes.
For example, Wizard has the best single target damage in the game, and if you can land your skillshots the class is very strong against in pretty much every situation. Disciple is a fantastic class, but I suppose that it requires a decent amount of skill to play correctly, and that is why many think it's bad.

I would just close this thread or something, nothing is going to come of it. Any thread claiming that good classes are bad does not belong anywhere.

 

[Jrr_]

lmao ur an idiot

 

[Kurrelgyre]

Providing inaccurate "resources" to noobs is a terrible way to go. No class on this server is in that bad of shape, and just looking at the list of "bad" classes makes me very sad about the perception some people have of the classes.
For example, Wizard has the best single target damage in the game, and if you can land your skillshots the class is very strong against in pretty much every situation. Disciple is a fantastic class, but I suppose that it requires a decent amount of skill to play correctly, and that is why many think it's bad.

I would just close this thread or something, nothing is going to come of it. Any thread claiming that good classes are bad does not belong anywhere.

When I heard he was going to post this thread, my first thought was "Irishman will set him straight." I know what issue he had with Wizard, which is what started this. He didn't know how to play it solo or in a party, and in a party was unable to manage aggro and damage effectively. He has the preconceived "Glass Cannon" notion. That a wizard can be squishy, but should do enough dps that it is untouchable. In which case, it would be unbalanced. I have no personal experience, but with its popularity among users, and how often I see high level Wizards, I can assume the class is enjoyable. A wizards play style is not for everyone, and Herocraft has its own rules on Wizards. That's what sets it apart.

 

[Lumify]

lmao ur an idiot

Nope, no spam here. So useful. You all are so wise, I should reconsider my viewpoint because lmao I'm an idiot. I reported the other post because it adds nothing to the conversation other than adding to the mob that's forming against me for releasing these common opinions.

On a sidenote, I do not see why you are calling us immature, when it was you who was muted by Kainzo for saying stupid shit.

@Irishman81 @iThaumaturge @JacobBurkey @Dafefman It isn't just in this post where we see signs of ridiculousness from @Lumify, but it seems to have originated the second he became a member:

Kainzo'a oversensitivity to a race joke was more immature than the joke. Just because our culture endorses an opposition to humor doesn't mean it isn't stupid. This was 3 years ago by the way.

Keep screaming at me, children. It's easy to see you're shooting the messenger.

When I heard he was going to post this thread, my first thought was "Irishman will set him straight." I know what issue he had with Wizard, which is what started this. He didn't know how to play it solo or in a party, and in a party was unable to manage aggro and damage effectively. He has the preconceived "Glass Cannon" notion. That a wizard can be squishy, but should do enough dps that it is untouchable. In which case, it would be unbalanced. I have no personal experience, but with its popularity among users, and how often I see high level Wizards, I can assume the class is enjoyable. A wizards play style is not for everyone, and Herocraft has its own rules on Wizards. That's what sets it apart.

A glass cannon has low defense and high attack, that's all. The wizard has low defense, we all know this. With such a low defense, it needs high attack to be good. It doesn't have high attack, it has medium attack. According to the "Class Roles" thread http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/class-roles.15476/ wizard is supposed to have high attack and low defense, so wizard is officially supposed to be a glass cannon. Upon mentioning the near-uselessness of Wizard's Port in a balance meeting, Kainzo said it should be a convenience feature, and not a core part of the class. Wizard might be a decent class in pvp because of snowball and entangle, but those skills aren't useful in pve, where most people spend their time training.

Wizards aren't viable in dungeons, where elites and bosses teleport and forcepull. With no way to dodge these attacks, it's a mathematical game of player dps+health vs enemy dps+health for Ranger and Wizard. Ranger can survive long enough to kill the enemy; Wizard can't.

Providing inaccurate "resources" to noobs is a terrible way to go. No class on this server is in that bad of shape, and just looking at the list of "bad" classes makes me very sad about the perception some people have of the classes.
For example, Wizard has the best single target damage in the game, and if you can land your skillshots the class is very strong against in pretty much every situation. Disciple is a fantastic class, but I suppose that it requires a decent amount of skill to play correctly, and that is why many think it's bad.

I would just close this thread or something, nothing is going to come of it. Any thread claiming that good classes are bad does not belong anywhere.

See what I wrote above about dungeons. There's no skill, just bad defense and medium attack. I know how to play wizard, I can keep all my skills on cooldown and never get hit except teleport/forcepull. Rangers do more damage than wizards. True, they aren't supposed to, but they do.

If wizard were designed well, you would be right. You would all be right. It just isn't. It needs more defense, more attack, or we need dodgeable dungeon boss/elite skills. Like maybe a 0.3 second gap between forcepull and damage so we can Blink away. That would be fun. Dying because your health sucks and the enemy has an "I win" button isn't.

 

[Kurrelgyre]

I see your general disregard of what others says is present as always. Its offense is the highest. However, you have to play the class intelligently. The dungeon is currently set so that classes without mobility abilities cannot prance around dungeons with no concern for their health. And that's if the person playing those classes knows how to do it well. With wizard, it has /always/ been a class that needs a party, because that is where it strives. Wizard was made so it can't solo higher level areas, due to the amount of health and dps those mobs have (Unless you can play the class that well.) You need a party, you need good aggro management skills. Wizard is difficult but rewarding to play. It might be revamped because "newbies" who want to look at their pretty abilities and feel good about being untouchable through sheer dps come onto forums and complain.

 

[Lumify]

I see your general disregard of what others says is present as always. Its offense is the highest. However, you have to play the class intelligently. The dungeon is currently set so that classes without mobility abilities cannot prance around dungeons with no concern for their health. And that's if the person playing those classes knows how to do it well. With wizard, it has /always/ been a class that needs a party, because that is where it strives. Wizard was made so it can't solo higher level areas, due to the amount of health and dps those mobs have (Unless you can play the class that well.) You need a party, you need good aggro management skills. Wizard is difficult but rewarding to play. It might be revamped because "newbies" who want to look at their pretty abilities and feel good about being untouchable through sheer dps come onto forums and complain.

Wizards need sheer dps because they have low defense. Losing defense in exchange for attack is a fair trade. Losing defense for flashy skills isn't. Ninja and Ranger do better dps than Wizard if Ninja can backstab and Ranger can land all their shots. Wizard should be on par with those two because it also has a caveat: being squishy.

 

[LordZelkova]

I don't PvP and even I know Wizard is good.
You land a Boltangle and you get some serious damage off.
You manage to land your skillshots and kite you do fine in PvP.

Wizard needs a party to do High Level content, every class SHOULD need a party to fight Elites and bosses for gear. Otherwise these items would just drop off regular mobs and they would have maybe 10 hp.

 

[Lumify]

I don't PvP and even I know Wizard is good.
You land a Boltangle and you get some serious damage off.
You manage to land your skillshots and kite you do fine in PvP.

Wizard needs a party to do High Level content, every class SHOULD need a party to fight Elites and bosses for gear. Otherwise these items would just drop off regular mobs and they would have maybe 10 hp.

Ranged classes can't party in dungeons because they can't get loot. Melee classes take it all. I know someone who thinks Wizard is a good class, and she switched from Beguiler to Ninja because of this. It's common knowledge that Rangers can solo dungeons quickly and efficiently. It's the best class for making money. I don't know about Beguiler, but Wizard can't solo dungeons. Mob aggroing is too quirky to keep them aggro'd on your tank 100% of the time, so occasionally the Wizard will draw aggro. Aggro is really sticky; you can't get them off you once they've decided they want to chase you.

There are a few possible fixes. Wizard could get more attack, wizard could get more defense, dungeon aggro ai could be improved, or dungeon mob skills could be dodged. Of course, if wizard gets its attack or defense buffed, they'd have to remove or nerf something like entangle or blink to compensate.

 

[LordZelkova]

Ranged classes can't party in dungeons because they can't get loot. Melee classes take it all. I know someone who thinks Wizard is a good class, and she switched from Beguiler to Ninja because of this. It's common knowledge that Rangers can solo dungeons quickly and efficiently. It's the best class for making money. I don't know about Beguiler, but Wizard can't solo dungeons. Mob aggroing is too quirky to keep them aggro'd on your tank 100% of the time, so occasionally the Wizard will draw aggro. Aggro is really sticky; you can't get them off you once they've decided they want to chase you.

There are a few possible fixes. Wizard could get more attack, wizard could get more defense, dungeon aggro ai could be improved, or dungeon mob skills could be dodged. Of course, if wizard gets its attack or defense buffed, they'd have to remove or nerf something like entangle or blink to compensate.

Or find friends who share the loot at the end?
You don't fight 1 boss and get 1 drop and walk away. You grind him out till everyone has either some levels or loot (Whatever they came for).

The aggro is something minecraft AI does. That's why skills like Taunt were great (Old taunt made mobs go for you).
Please be our guest and redo the mob AI so it only attacks tanks mindlesly. The tanks job is to make sure any aggro that isnt on him, he gets to him. Your tank should be walking around hitting everything it can, trying to pull stuff off others. If a zombie walks past your Paladin and he doesnt react, it's not the Dev's fault, it's your paladin.

Please also remember this Minecraft, only so much can be done to the game.

 

[Kurrelgyre]

The key term that flew over your head was should. Classes should need a party to fight in the dungeon. However, it's difficult for a team of people who aren't backed by years of college and have a job in coding/programming/designing for videogames to create multiple classes with multiple abilities and uses all balanced. Some classes are easier to learn so are thought to be stronger, because of their simplicity. Some classes actually are somewhat stronger than other classes, due to the difficulty of balancing classes. However, someone who plays Dragoon or Ranger can be slaughtered easily by someone who knows how to play Wizard. Your ideals are based on thoughtless perceptions other have had, which influence you. As Irishboy said earlier, it's sad to see someone with such a negative perception of classes that are good. You have to realize at some point when /everyone/ disagrees with you, especially people who have been on this server for years, you've spouted nonsense. It's not immaturity to disagree with you, especially when you claimed your posts to be "open to criticism".
-Everyone is the critic now. Gather 'round and talk down the class clown until he can find a sound arguement we can't hound on.-

 

[Dwarfers]

I have played Sorcerer and it was perfectly fine. If there is anything wrong with Wizard it might be the default attributes everyone gets which I don't know what they are. I can't think of any other reason wizard would be bad other than that and maybe complaining about the cooldown of blink. I don't have recent experience with Wizard, but Sorcerer is great. I have not read any post before me because I do not need to in order to understand what is being said. All classes are fine--they just have different difficulties play level which leads to good/bad for opinions of players.

 

[Lumify]

Or find friends who share the loot at the end?
You don't fight 1 boss and get 1 drop and walk away. You grind him out till everyone has either some levels or loot (Whatever they came for).

The only person who would agree to this was a necromancer because he shared in the pain of being screwed by melee classes. Nobody else wants to, which means we don't have a real tank. All the real tanks are partying with people who don't share loot because they can pick it up faster and keep it. That sucks; maybe it's a bad community and not the dev's fault, but it sucks.

The tanks job is to make sure any aggro that isnt on him, he gets to him. Your tank should be walking around hitting everything it can, trying to pull stuff off others.

It's extremely hard to pull a mob off someone, no matter how much you hit it. Aggro just doesn't work like that on HC. A mob will follow the first person to hit it or be near it, and won't ever be dissuaded from its target. On rare occasions, the mob picks a new target, but it's so rare that nobody is prepared for it, and it's treated as more of a freak incident than a gameplay mechanic.

Please also remember this Minecraft, only so much can be done to the game.

Yeah, I understand. Proper tanking would require an AI rewrite where the mob would retaliate against an attacker right next to it, instead of far away from it. The mob would need to switch targets if one target was hitting it and the other one wasn't.

However, someone who plays Dragoon or Ranger can be slaughtered easily by someone who knows how to play Wizard. Your ideals are based on thoughtless perceptions other have had, which influence you.

Maybe Wizard was balanced when the classes came out. I played a Wizard 3 years ago, and my only problem in dark rooms was mana. That's fine, I could still train, and entangle and snowball would make me viable in pvp. Dungeoning is the main occupation these days, and wizards can't do it. Maybe the list is influenced by thoughtless perceptions of others, but I really made sure I was properly playing Wizard and still getting creamed before deciding it was bad.

I have played Sorcerer and it was perfectly fine. If there is anything wrong with Wizard it might be the default attributes everyone gets which I don't know what they are. I can't think of any other reason wizard would be bad other than that and complaining about the cooldown of blink.

This is the kind of conversation I've been looking for. I've been thinking about this for a long time, wondering if maybe Wizard's default attributes are bad and will improve MORE than the other classes upon reaching tier 2. Unfortunately people keep mindlessly changing "classes are balanced, classes are balanced, you're playing it wrong, classes are balanced" for me to figure out if level 40 tier 1 is just a bad time in the progression of the class. I already know dungeoning as a level 40 wizard is bad; people telling me otherwise is an obvious lie.

I want to believe that it gets better, but I don't know. After Ranger, I'm seriously considering going back to level up Wizard and see for myself since nobody can be honest with me.

 

[Lumify]

You have to realize at some point when /everyone/ disagrees with you, especially people who have been on this server for years, you've spouted nonsense. It's not immaturity to disagree with you, especially when you claimed your posts to be "open to criticism".

It doesn't matter what other people say when I've witnessed something firsthand. I have talked to a couple people who agree about wizard. What makes my opinion on Wizard even more substantial is the fact that I love the play style of wizard more than any other class. You don't understand what "glass cannon" means so you use that in your argument; well according to the Class Roles thread, wizard IS supposed to be a glass cannon. It's just not; it's simply weak. At least maybe it is for tier 1, which is what @Dwarfers was suggesting. But ffs, at least acknowledge an obvious problem before telling people it's not there. Maybe it's really great tier 2 and really bad tier 1. That would be fine; I just don't know.

I was saying the people who weren't adding anything to the conversation and blatantly insulting me to be immature. Somehow being nonconstructive and showing up in a thread only to insult someone is standard practice around here. I don't mind the class balance issues or the glitches nearly as much as I mind the horrible community on Herocraft.

 

[LordZelkova]

The only person who would agree to this was a necromancer because he shared in the pain of being screwed by melee classes. Nobody else wants to, which means we don't have a real tank. All the real tanks are partying with people who don't share loot because they can pick it up faster and keep it. That sucks; maybe it's a bad community and not the dev's fault, but it sucks.

I'm a necro myself, I walked into a lvl 40 area (I'm level 42) and instantly god slaughtered by a mob in face. So I get low armor.
But seriously, your're complaining about loot because you can't be in melee range, when the people you're grinding with are taking it. How the fuck is that Wizards fault? If you're own friends can't share loot, then you need different grinding buddies.

It doesn't matter what other people say when I've witnessed something firsthand. I have talked to a couple people who agree about wizard. What makes my opinion on Wizard even more substantial is the fact that I love the play style of wizard more than any other class. You don't understand what "glass cannon" means so you use that in your argument; well according to the Class Roles thread, wizard IS supposed to be a glass cannon. It's just not; it's simply weak. At least maybe it is for tier 1, which is what @Dwarfers was suggesting. But ffs, at least acknowledge an obvious problem before telling people it's not there. Maybe it's really great tier 2 and really bad tier 1. That would be fine; I just don't know.

I was saying the people who weren't adding anything to the conversation and blatantly insulting me to be immature. Somehow being nonconstructive and showing up in a thread only to insult someone is standard practice around here. I don't mind the class balance issues or the glitches nearly as much as I mind the horrible community on Herocraft.

Many people have told you why it can be good. Just because you had a bad experience with it doesnt make it bad.
I played Ninja for 2 hours and was garbage, not because Ninja was garbage, but because I couldn't play the class. I didn't go around begging for Ninja buffs.
Wizard has its Niche, Solo play just isn't it.

 

[Lumify]

I'm a necro myself, I walked into a lvl 40 area (I'm level 42) and instantly god slaughtered by a mob in face. So I get low armor.
But seriously, your're complaining about loot because you can't be in melee range, when the people you're grinding with are taking it. How the fuck is that Wizards fault? If you're own friends can't share loot, then you need different grinding buddies.

Someone said they're working on a loot sharing system; this would fix the problem. Grinding buddies who share loot are extremely rare, that's what I'm saying. Unless you're only grinding with a couple people at most, there's no way you'll be able to get all 6 people or whatever to share loot, they'll just dodge the question, and nobody's willing to kick a party member out for not sharing loot. It goes back to Herocraft having a bad community. There are exceptions, but in general, Wizard and I hear Beguiler are bad for making money. Beguiler is good from what I've heard, but not as good as Ranger for soloing. So that leaves Ranger as the only good ranged class.