Suggestion Upcoming PvP party limits and concerns

[Xhazed]

@xMJay for balance he mastered the use of trampolines in pvp he said he can jump to the left and go back in one move as a dragoon, he also said that there needs to be a mode to add trampolines when u are using boats cause that is unfair for the people that make their way wih boats

 

[pigeonsnackwrap]

You do know who you are talking...RIGHT?

I'm just stating the facts.

 

[malikdanab]

I'm just stating the facts.

Never said you weren't. Its just ironic to ask if Kainzo has pvped when he doesn't even play.

 

[pigeonsnackwrap]

Never said you weren't. Its just ironic to ask if Kainzo has pvped when he doesn't even play.

Then don't freak out. It wasn't an insult or anything, it's just things that Kainzo should take notes on instead of judging off of his/others opinions.

 

[malikdanab]

Then don't freak out. It wasn't an insult or anything, it's just things that Kainzo should take notes on instead of judging off of his/others opinions.

Whos the one freaking out here...

 

[Xhazed]

Then don't freak out. It wasn't an insult or anything, it's just things that Kainzo should take notes on instead of judging off of his/others opinions.

Whos the one freaking out here...

Pls no fighting here leave that for irl

 

[jazza411]

I don't see why trying out 5v5's is necessarily such a bad thing, kainzo stated they can change it any time. We can't really expect to see herocraft remain stagnant as if it did we might aswell just go back and play on the museum maps... JUST GIVE IT A GO

 

[malikdanab]

I don't see why trying out 5v5's is necessarily such a bad thing, kainzo stated they can change it any time. We can't really expect to see herocraft remain stagnant as if it did we might aswell just go back and play on the museum maps... JUST GIVE IT A GO

But change is SCARY....and people like their 10 man heals/gtps

 

[Eldrylars]

I can tell you what I believe will be the major effects coming from the party limit change:

1. Organized PVP parties will choose only those players who are specific classes for parties, leaving non group oriented players alone or in B squad.
2. Large cities will dominate PVP against Alliances/Kingdoms/mutliple smaller clans. due to non townies in secondary groups killing eachother.
3. Support classes that are not Bard or Cleric will lose play as group will pick "the best of the best" due to their limited group size.
   
4. Support classes in general will feel the pain as well as more solo oriented players.

If Townie protection stays in, large single townships will have a large bonus over Kingdoms and Allied Township, but there will still be fights with more then 5 person groups.
If Townie protection is disabled, then I see the max party size directly affecting how many people are often "allowed" to join PVP due to friendly fire issues.

@Dwarfers You mentioned somewhere - "You can just mark people as allies and they get damage protection I think"
Unfortunately no, you can mark people as guests, which turns their name blue, but the only way to get friendly fire protection is by being in the same town.

If this change was to "balance the low pop," "balance support classes," or for "balancing" aoe offensive skills I don't see it having the effects that are desired, unless that's to limit class selection and force small group combat only.

A proper permanent method would be to determine what AOE support/damage spells are "to strong" and to make them scale by party size/effected targets.

A quicker fix for the issues this will bring is: Add pvp protection for players in clans, allow raid groups to give pvp immunity between linked groups. Although this will not fix the non group oriented classes from being sent to B and D squads, it will at least allow for non large cities to fight on even footing.

EDIT: @Danda I don't believe 5 man groups are broken at all, they just require careful planning. It's the careful planning that will make many HC classes undesirable in group PVP. Not many top tier PVPers would take a Druid over a Cleric, or a Dreadknight over a Pally. If the choice was to have a Disciple in your group or a Runeblade, the Disciple would be picked 9 out of 10 times. When you have party sizes of 10, you have leeway to take in the not so party oriented classes to fill the member gap.

Parties of 5 works fine, but leave no room for error on who gets to be in the party.

EDIT2:

I am expecting to see most solo oriented classes annexed this map with the current changes, as most of the things a Solo oriented class can do will be removed.
Ninja, Runeblade, Dreadknight, Dragoon, Bloodmage I feel will be hit the hardest, while Pyro, Ranger, Berserker, Druid and Shammy will be a bit less so.
Solo raiders/classes will be trying to figure out how to deal with:

• Lack of miners in PVP to hunt
• Lack of builders in PVP to hunt
• Lack of levelers in PVP to hunt
• Lack of allowance into groups due to limited space
• Lack of allowance into group fights if it's not with their own township to get damage protection.

This is only my gut feeling of what we will see. In 4 days we will know for sure

FINAL EDIT:
Lol.. On the up side, I hope to make new friends, as I invite you all to mine and level with me on PVE <3

 

[werwew19]

Kind of depressed @Ellron23's post got removed

 

[Dwarfers]

Yeah, my post was more of a suggestion since I had a "maybe" in there. With clans you can turn friendly fire on/off using "/clan clanff allow/block". I meant maybe people set as allies can be added to that command/a similar comand somehow.

UPDATE: Just tested clan alliance command. Clans set as allies can NOT hit each other.

Another update: In order to /clan trust <player> the player must be in your clan already - can this be made so player doesn't have to be part of the clan?

Summary - Clans can toggle friendly fire on/off and clans allied to another clan cannot attack each other. In order to /clan trust <player> both the player using the command and the player the command is being used for must be in the same clan.

 

[Eldrylars]

Yeah, my post was more of a suggestion since I had a "maybe" in there. With clans you can turn friendly fire on/off using "/clan clanff allow/block". I meant maybe people set as allies can be added to that command/a similar comand somehow.

UPDATE: Just tested clan alliance command. Clans set as allies can NOT hit each other.

Another update: In order to /clan trust <player> the player must be in your clan already - can this be made so player doesn't have to be part of the clan?

Summary - Clans can toggle friendly fire on/off and clans allied to another clan cannot attack each other. In order to /clan trust <player> both the player using the command and the player the command is being used for must be in the same clan.

Good to know, so when a Township brings 20 people to a control point, other smaller townships can guild invite everyone they want to fight with. Not a good solution, but a solution.
Enabling this protection to "Allied Clans" would make life for them 100% better, if it's even possible.

 

[MajDeath]

Yeah, my post was more of a suggestion since I had a "maybe" in there. With clans you can turn friendly fire on/off using "/clan clanff allow/block". I meant maybe people set as allies can be added to that command/a similar comand somehow.

UPDATE: Just tested clan alliance command. Clans set as allies can NOT hit each other.

Another update: In order to /clan trust <player> the player must be in your clan already - can this be made so player doesn't have to be part of the clan?

Summary - Clans can toggle friendly fire on/off and clans allied to another clan cannot attack each other. In order to /clan trust <player> both the player using the command and the player the command is being used for must be in the same clan.

Pretty sure /clan trust <name> just gives more in clan perms.

Edit: Untrusted, trusted and leader all give different levels of permission to clan commands, you can have multiple leaders and they can demote each other.

 

[malikdanab]

Good to know, so when a Township brings 20 people to a control point, other smaller townships can guild invite everyone they want to fight with. Not a good solution, but a solution.
Enabling this protection to "Allied Clans" would make life for them 100% better, if it's even possible.

You can already ally clans and they won't be able to hurt each other.

 

[Dwarfers]

Good to know, so when a Township brings 20 people to a control point, other smaller townships can guild invite everyone they want to fight with. Not a good solution, but a solution.
Enabling this protection to "Allied Clans" would make life for them 100% better, if it's even possible.

"....clans allied to another clan cannot attack each other."

 

[Eldrylars]

"....clans allied to another clan cannot attack each other."

You can already ally clans and they won't be able to hurt each other.

Good, I am glad I read that wrong.
This will not help me as I will most likely be the one with 10-20 people from one township, but I am all for fair footing with the built in game tools.

 

[JupiterRome]

I just realized, reading through like page 2 and 3, most of the people complaining about 5v5s not being balanced seem like their mad they cant basically focus and 1 shot somebody...... Offtopic but true

@Eldrylars So your saying Druids not gunna be on par with cleric for group fights? I've beaten some really good Teams with a cleric healer when Imma Druid Healer

 

[Eldrylars]

I just realized, reading through like page 2 and 3, most of the people complaining about 5v5s not being balanced seem like their mad they cant basically focus and 1 shot somebody...... Offtopic but true

@Eldrylars So your saying Druids not gunna be on par with cleric for group fights? I've beaten some really good Teams with a cleric healer when Imma Druid Healer

Not against me on even ground you haven't
EDIT: But really, Unless the group have minimal other damage dealers, a Cleric would be more valuable. In a pure 5v5 the Cleric heals are just so much stronger then a Druids. The loss of Damage between a Druid and Cleric is easier to offset then the loss of healing between the two.
Anything is possible, but if the players are equal skill and the group comps available the Cleric should win. Check the tourney videos from the 5v5. That team was just about as optimized as it could have been. We would have struggled to maintain full HP with a druid instead of a Cleric

 

[malikdanab]

Yes pvp won't be balanced, but since when has it If we keep this 5 person limit, it can be the benchmark to balance classes around.

 

[Dwarfers]

@Xanipher
Can you remove all this spam above please?