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Ninja: The Worst Class in all of HeroCraft, but why?
- Thread starter Calovichi
- Start date
G
globjako2
A ninja is the best in group fights. Dont expect it to be any good unless you've practiced backflipping while being chased. The element of surprise is your friend. Sneak, fade, smoke. If you don't like it then just switch out.
Kwong050
Holy Shit!
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2011
please what bout meeeee
Calovichi
Legacy Supporter 5
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2013
- Location
- Cambridge, Ohio USA
I am not saying is because of your duel. I was practicing to get better in those duels. What I base my opinain on are direct comparison to other classes. Facts if you will. Not just because I have not practiced the class enough, which I have not done. But at the end of the day thought the comparisons I made, it is a fact that a TRAINED ninja vs any TRAINED pvp er will loss or barely win because of differences in what skills each class gets.
DefaultTexture
Legacy Supporter 4
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2012
collin_4110
Gold
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2012
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2011
Blitz ....block during warm-up.... lands, Envenom/Eviscerate Burst.
Ask a good ninja for help playing the class. Ill let you know if I find one who is talkative about strategy
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2012
- Location
- United States
Ugh. Sick of seeing people say this. Ninja is not bad--in fact, it's one of the best classes on Herocraft; It's amazing. Yes, it's squishy as hell and gets destroyed the moment he is focused, and yes, they don't have many direct "combat" abilities like a samurai or dragoon does, but I assure you, Ninja is strong.
I'd like to start out by saying that Ninja is not a /col duel class. If you're just sitting around all day dueling and then calling ninja bad, that is why you aren't enjoying the class. Additionally, most Ninja's that play on this server try to treat the class like a Samurai. They see another player, run up, spam left click and mash their abilities until they have none left. They then get destroyed within seconds and complain that Ninja's not very powerful. Ninja is not a Samurai, and if you are trying to play like one, you are doing it wrong.
Ninja truly shines in world pvp. It is one of the most efficient gankers, carrying the highest damage burst potential of all classes. Whether it be 1v1 ganks, small skirmishes, or even large teamfights, they can be a very powerful asset. You just have to learn to properly utilize their skills to your advantage.
Kdog, in your OP, you mention that they have several "non-combat" skills. This is true, but these "non-combat" skills can be used in combat just as effectively as the combat skills. (And for the record, envenom IS a combat skill--you're silly). I cannot count how many times I've absolutely destroyed someone due to fade or smoke. Or lived because of tumble / backflip while jumping off a high location. Not to mention, fall damage is OP as fuck. You can knock somedown down like 10 blocks, jump after them, land gracefully, and then clean up an easy kill.
Something I'd like to clear up about Envenom. Yes, it does almost no damage, and yes, it takes a fuckload of stamina, but the benefit it provides to combat is something many people refuse to acknowledge. I don't feel like going into detail on this again, but basically, every time that envenom "procs", it allows you to get another left click in. This means that you essentially attack 50% faster while envenom is ticking. Using it before a fight, and even during, is nothing to joke about--this ability lets you deal insane levels of damage, despite the lack of decent numbers.
Another thing to point out, is that you can't just look at two classes and compare the numbers. You compare Ninja to Wizard, but you have to understand that they are conceptually different. Several of a Wizard's abilities must be manually aimed, and the few that aren't require a channel time. They also don't have a reliable left click--their spells deal all of their damage. So while yes, a Wizard can deal more damage via their abilities, they cannot always reliably unleash it. Not to mention, one wrong move and they're completely fucked.
Ninja however, has high damaging abilities in addition to their insane melee damage. This combination is what makes them so deadly. Also, I'm not entirely sure you understand that Eviscerate and Blitz deal their damage through armor. At level 60, most players have around 800-1000hp. Blitz deals 210 damage, whereas eviscerate deals 201. This is a 411 true damage burst on a melee class. Combine that with say, I dunno, two left clicks, and that becomes 623 damage, about 80% of a Wizard's HP. Now, you don't always use these two together, and of course you have to count in armor for left clicks, but I'm just trying to show that they do indeed have a large damage potential.
The other thing, is Backstab. People underestimate this ability so freaking hard it's ridiculous. Many don't even fully understand the mechanics, though that's partially Herocraft's fault. Take a look at this graph I made a while back: http://1.ii.gl/H6fcJg.png
To clarify, this is the sword left click damage for a Ninja. The column that says "Backstab" refers to when you attack an opponent from behind (while not sneaking) and "Ambush" is for when you attack from behind when you are sneaking. The columns for Warsong, Might, and "W + M" are different class buffs that can boost your melee damage. As you may notice in the chart, the maximum damage potential (per left click) for a Ninja with a gold sword is fucking 393 damage. Obviously, this will not realistically happen in most fights--but it's possible, and oh man oh man have I done it. Case in Point: http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/potential-damage-bug.33584/
Buffs and Gold sword aside, with a Diamond sword, you can deal 212 damage per swing on ambush. Let's say you are sneaking, and you run up to a guy that doesn't know you are there. You pop Envenom, and begin to run at him. You click him, envenom procs, you click him again, envenom procs, he realizes what's going on and turns to you, you click him, you eviscerate him, you click him, he starts to run away, you click him, he's dead.
Before he even realizes what's going on, you have already dealt 481 damage. This occurs within less than 2 seconds--maybe even less than one. You haven't even used any abilities yet and he's already at half health. After he notices you, you instantly deal another 413 damage, 201 of which goes through armor. Now, it's possible he hit you at this point, (breaking your sneak) so let's bring that 413 damage down to 307. We are now at a total of 788 damage. If they were naked, they are most likely dead. But most people don't run around naked, and if they're a warrior, they've still got a decent amount of health left anyways. But that honestly doesn't matter, do you know why? Because he's fucking shitting his pants right now at the insane amount of damage you've done to him, and he probably isn't going to react very well because of this.
Get it? It's all in how you approach the fight. It would go very differently if he saw you from the distance and you both ran at each other. It's for those such occasions that we have abilities like fade and smoke. The initiation is everything for a Ninja. He cannot draw attention to himself, he cannot initiate too early, and he must always do so from an advantages location. The Ninja is the Herocraft Assassin. You have all this burst potential, but only if you actually use it properly. If you start a fight as a Ninja by running headfirst into the enemy--you're doing it wrong, and you're going to have a bad time.
Obviously there's a lot more to it than that, but I don't feel like typing up any more BS atm and you should at least get a little bit of the picture by now. You just need to open your mind up a bit and think about what all you can do with your class before you start knocking it.
I'd like to start out by saying that Ninja is not a /col duel class. If you're just sitting around all day dueling and then calling ninja bad, that is why you aren't enjoying the class. Additionally, most Ninja's that play on this server try to treat the class like a Samurai. They see another player, run up, spam left click and mash their abilities until they have none left. They then get destroyed within seconds and complain that Ninja's not very powerful. Ninja is not a Samurai, and if you are trying to play like one, you are doing it wrong.
Ninja truly shines in world pvp. It is one of the most efficient gankers, carrying the highest damage burst potential of all classes. Whether it be 1v1 ganks, small skirmishes, or even large teamfights, they can be a very powerful asset. You just have to learn to properly utilize their skills to your advantage.
Kdog, in your OP, you mention that they have several "non-combat" skills. This is true, but these "non-combat" skills can be used in combat just as effectively as the combat skills. (And for the record, envenom IS a combat skill--you're silly). I cannot count how many times I've absolutely destroyed someone due to fade or smoke. Or lived because of tumble / backflip while jumping off a high location. Not to mention, fall damage is OP as fuck. You can knock somedown down like 10 blocks, jump after them, land gracefully, and then clean up an easy kill.
Something I'd like to clear up about Envenom. Yes, it does almost no damage, and yes, it takes a fuckload of stamina, but the benefit it provides to combat is something many people refuse to acknowledge. I don't feel like going into detail on this again, but basically, every time that envenom "procs", it allows you to get another left click in. This means that you essentially attack 50% faster while envenom is ticking. Using it before a fight, and even during, is nothing to joke about--this ability lets you deal insane levels of damage, despite the lack of decent numbers.
Another thing to point out, is that you can't just look at two classes and compare the numbers. You compare Ninja to Wizard, but you have to understand that they are conceptually different. Several of a Wizard's abilities must be manually aimed, and the few that aren't require a channel time. They also don't have a reliable left click--their spells deal all of their damage. So while yes, a Wizard can deal more damage via their abilities, they cannot always reliably unleash it. Not to mention, one wrong move and they're completely fucked.
Ninja however, has high damaging abilities in addition to their insane melee damage. This combination is what makes them so deadly. Also, I'm not entirely sure you understand that Eviscerate and Blitz deal their damage through armor. At level 60, most players have around 800-1000hp. Blitz deals 210 damage, whereas eviscerate deals 201. This is a 411 true damage burst on a melee class. Combine that with say, I dunno, two left clicks, and that becomes 623 damage, about 80% of a Wizard's HP. Now, you don't always use these two together, and of course you have to count in armor for left clicks, but I'm just trying to show that they do indeed have a large damage potential.
The other thing, is Backstab. People underestimate this ability so freaking hard it's ridiculous. Many don't even fully understand the mechanics, though that's partially Herocraft's fault. Take a look at this graph I made a while back: http://1.ii.gl/H6fcJg.png
To clarify, this is the sword left click damage for a Ninja. The column that says "Backstab" refers to when you attack an opponent from behind (while not sneaking) and "Ambush" is for when you attack from behind when you are sneaking. The columns for Warsong, Might, and "W + M" are different class buffs that can boost your melee damage. As you may notice in the chart, the maximum damage potential (per left click) for a Ninja with a gold sword is fucking 393 damage. Obviously, this will not realistically happen in most fights--but it's possible, and oh man oh man have I done it. Case in Point: http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/potential-damage-bug.33584/
Buffs and Gold sword aside, with a Diamond sword, you can deal 212 damage per swing on ambush. Let's say you are sneaking, and you run up to a guy that doesn't know you are there. You pop Envenom, and begin to run at him. You click him, envenom procs, you click him again, envenom procs, he realizes what's going on and turns to you, you click him, you eviscerate him, you click him, he starts to run away, you click him, he's dead.
Before he even realizes what's going on, you have already dealt 481 damage. This occurs within less than 2 seconds--maybe even less than one. You haven't even used any abilities yet and he's already at half health. After he notices you, you instantly deal another 413 damage, 201 of which goes through armor. Now, it's possible he hit you at this point, (breaking your sneak) so let's bring that 413 damage down to 307. We are now at a total of 788 damage. If they were naked, they are most likely dead. But most people don't run around naked, and if they're a warrior, they've still got a decent amount of health left anyways. But that honestly doesn't matter, do you know why? Because he's fucking shitting his pants right now at the insane amount of damage you've done to him, and he probably isn't going to react very well because of this.
Get it? It's all in how you approach the fight. It would go very differently if he saw you from the distance and you both ran at each other. It's for those such occasions that we have abilities like fade and smoke. The initiation is everything for a Ninja. He cannot draw attention to himself, he cannot initiate too early, and he must always do so from an advantages location. The Ninja is the Herocraft Assassin. You have all this burst potential, but only if you actually use it properly. If you start a fight as a Ninja by running headfirst into the enemy--you're doing it wrong, and you're going to have a bad time.
Obviously there's a lot more to it than that, but I don't feel like typing up any more BS atm and you should at least get a little bit of the picture by now. You just need to open your mind up a bit and think about what all you can do with your class before you start knocking it.
northeaster345
Legacy Supporter 8
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2012
Hmm, I think delf went into this ravine. Oh look a narrow passageway, lemme see if he went in this mineshaft. OMGWTFBBQ, dead 2 seconds later. Well that was a bad idea.
Jack_Reacher
Legacy Supporter 7
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2011
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2012
- Location
- United States
Man that was so much fun. I was grinning so hard when I saw you walk up. "If he turns I win if he turns I win" "HE TURNED! YES!"
ahh that was so good.
DefaultTexture
Legacy Supporter 4
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2012
guise lets be ninjas on call of duty
Templar_James
Legacy Supporter 8
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2012
If minecraft didn't have the type of easy cheats it did today Ninjas would be amazing but now days people just use shit to see the person before they get to him
JacobBurkey
Portal
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2012
I love when this happens... Sometimes when I'm dueling, I'll use fade, they're like "Hey where'd he go" *walks around*
*I pop out when they walk past me*"OMG WHATS GOING ON!!!" Then, I just murder them and they wonder what just happened. Also, I agree with everything you said in your post.
northeaster345
Legacy Supporter 8
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2012
Lol reacting, I'm already dead, but of course that doesn't stop me from shitting my pants.
