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Suggestion Let's talk about Paladin

Dwarfers

Dwarfers

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Location
Arizona
The only real problem is Paladin's scaling with Strength and Charisma in my opinion. Both should to be lowered.
 
Egorh

Egorh

Outcast
Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Dwarfers said:
The only real problem is Paladin's scaling with Strength and Charisma in my opinion. Both should to be lowered.
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Sure, the duration of Divine Stun can be increased easily with minimal points in charisma but that is not really the major problem imo. It is that it is spammable
 
xMJay

xMJay

Portal
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Problem with blackjack was that ninja had it, which then let it melt any class with free backstabs.
 
Darkwerty

Darkwerty

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
jazza411 said:
I am not sure how @w0nd3rb0y is trying to justify paladin it basically has blackjack :S
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The problem with blackjack and ninja, Which i played a shit ton in Haven.. I had a 2.5 sec stun.. If i get the jump on you with this stun while im sneaking i do 210 DMG PER BACKSTAB + Eviscerate + and afrer kick for silence... Which means every class = dead Except for paladin/berserker
 
Xerot

Xerot

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
A smart paladin is hell to kill, 'Specially if they've got lay hands. I'd find it more reasonable if it were possible to interrupt it, personally. Not many classes can interrupt it at things stand currently, but it'd still be clear when they just went back to full health. If most classes have to charge a heavily damaging ability, paladins, within reason, should have to charge lay hands as well.

I'm looking at buying an expensive router to remedy my crappy internet situation, so hopefully I'll be something of a threat again. No effective slows or stuns make me sad panda.
 
Delfofthebla

Delfofthebla

Legacy Supporter 4
Retired Staff
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
United States
MichaelRL said:
B

Bro the only dmg you got on me was when I was stunned and pally didn't have a stun on bastion and it was op why have a stun now
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Um, it totally had DivineStun on Bastion.

JupiterRome said:
@Xerot
@Delfofthebla
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I don't follow the reasoning for the tag. What are you wanting me to say here?

As far as the "Pally vs. Ranger" thing goes, it's a moot argument.

A few of you said it just right--the ranger is meant to be weak against heavily armored classes. Not to say that they "can't win", but it sure as hell shouldn't be an easy fight. Though I will say this is probably worse than normal due to people realizing Protection is working and is just as retarded as it's always been.

-----------
On Paladin:

The "Paladin Revamp" for Haven was meant to remove a lot of damage from the Paladin but still allow it to "win fights". Ugh. I'll be the first to say,

FUCK PALADIN

*cough*. However, it is a class that people want (Heavily armored, high HP melee fighter with support skills), and unfortunately it is a class type that people also want to enjoy (A support class that is meant to be fun to play as while performing the complete opposite role of support, "killing people"). Couple these things with the equally unfortunate iron law Kainzo has laid upon us, "Layhands will never ever go away", we got a reeeaaal fun "class". This has all made the "Herocraft Paladin" a royal pain in the ass to be balanced, viable, AND fun to play.

This revamp came near the end when I was extremely burnt out from coding attributes and revamping however many classes I ended up revamping (7...?) and I just didn't have the time or motivation to test it much (Think Paladin was second to last, followed by Bard). I took out HolyStrike, lowered their melee, and tried to force them to rely on ShieldReflect to actually deal damage. I also tried to throw in more supporty stuff like Intervene and RayShieldWhateverTheFuckIActuallyNamedIt. I don't know how much I tweaked DivineStun but it definitely seems like people hate it more here than they did on Bastion.

But yea, basically I created a couple of skills real quick, nerfed some numbers, threw it on test and fought @lumont for an hour or so until he said he was fine with it. All the while knowing that lumont is the single worst person to trust for balancing Paladin. (He likes winning)

It probably needs another revamp, but maybe it doesn't. Maybe numbers is all it needs. Either way, I'm sure everyone will still hate it. It's a class that is very hate-able after all. So yea, nerf it to the ground. Or don't. Whatever works.
 
Last edited:
whitayy

whitayy

Soulsand
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Delfofthebla said:
Um, it totally had DivineStun on Bastion.


I don't follow the reasoning for the tag. What are you wanting me to say here?

As far as the "Pally vs. Ranger" thing goes, it's a moot argument.

A few of you said it just right--the ranger is meant to be weak against heavily armored classes. Not to say that they "can't win", but it sure as hell shouldn't be an easy fight. Though I will say this is probably worse than normal due to people realizing Protection is working and is just as retarded as it's always been.

-----------
On Paladin:

The "Paladin Revamp" for Haven was meant to remove a lot of damage from the Paladin but still allow it to "win fights". I'll be the first to say,

FUCK PALADIN

*cough*. However, it is a class that people want (Heavily armored, high HP melee fighter with support skills), and unfortunately it is a class type that people also want to enjoy (A support class that is meant to be fun to play as while performing the complete opposite role of support, "killing people"). Couple these things with the equally unfortunate iron law Kainzo has laid upon us, "Layhands will never ever go away", we got a reeeaaal fun "class". This has all made the "Herocraft Paladin" a royal pain in the ass to be balanced, viable, AND fun to play.

This revamp came near the end when I was extremely burnt out from coding attributes and revamping however many classes I ended up revamping (7...?) and I just didn't have the time or motivation to test it much (Think Paladin was second to last, followed by Bard). I took out HolyStrike, lowered their melee, and tried to force them to rely on ShieldReflect to actually deal damage. I also tried to throw in more supporty stuff like Intervene and RayShieldWhateverTheFuckIActuallyNamedIt. I don't know how much I tweaked DivineStun but it definitely seems like people hate it more here than they did on Bastion.

But yea, basically I created a couple of skills real quick, nerfed some numbers, threw it on test and fought @lumont for an hour or so until he said he was fine with it. All the while knowing that lumont is the single worst person to trust for balancing Paladin. (He likes winning)

It probably needs another revamp, but maybe it doesn't. Maybe numbers is all it needs. Either way, I'm sure everyone will still hate it. It's a class that is very hate-able after all. So yea, nerf it to the ground. Or don't. Whatever works.
Click to expand...
K
 
what777

what777

Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Delfofthebla said:
Um, it totally had DivineStun on Bastion.


I don't follow the reasoning for the tag. What are you wanting me to say here?

As far as the "Pally vs. Ranger" thing goes, it's a moot argument.

A few of you said it just right--the ranger is meant to be weak against heavily armored classes. Not to say that they "can't win", but it sure as hell shouldn't be an easy fight. Though I will say this is probably worse than normal due to people realizing Protection is working and is just as retarded as it's always been.

-----------
On Paladin:

The "Paladin Revamp" for Haven was meant to remove a lot of damage from the Paladin but still allow it to "win fights". I'll be the first to say,

FUCK PALADIN

*cough*. However, it is a class that people want (Heavily armored, high HP melee fighter with support skills), and unfortunately it is a class type that people also want to enjoy (A support class that is meant to be fun to play as while performing the complete opposite role of support, "killing people"). Couple these things with the equally unfortunate iron law Kainzo has laid upon us, "Layhands will never ever go away", we got a reeeaaal fun "class". This has all made the "Herocraft Paladin" a royal pain in the ass to be balanced, viable, AND fun to play.

This revamp came near the end when I was extremely burnt out from coding attributes and revamping however many classes I ended up revamping (7...?) and I just didn't have the time or motivation to test it much (Think Paladin was second to last, followed by Bard). I took out HolyStrike, lowered their melee, and tried to force them to rely on ShieldReflect to actually deal damage. I also tried to throw in more supporty stuff like Intervene and RayShieldWhateverTheFuckIActuallyNamedIt. I don't know how much I tweaked DivineStun but it definitely seems like people hate it more here than they did on Bastion.

But yea, basically I created a couple of skills real quick, nerfed some numbers, threw it on test and fought @lumont for an hour or so until he said he was fine with it. All the while knowing that lumont is the single worst person to trust for balancing Paladin. (He likes winning)

It probably needs another revamp, but maybe it doesn't. Maybe numbers is all it needs. Either way, I'm sure everyone will still hate it. It's a class that is very hate-able after all. So yea, nerf it to the ground. Or don't. Whatever works.
Click to expand...

Paladin was always good indeeed... this map seems to be worse IMO though.
Maybe just add a warmup to LayHands? Then you can atleast cancel it.
 
Dwarfers

Dwarfers

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Location
Arizona
Paladin's tankyness is fine hp/armor wise but the damage output is strong and spammable right now(Strike/DivineStun).
 
what777

what777

Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Ye, the stun and insane dmg combined is what is really wrong. The layhands just makes it incredibly frustrating to try and kill paladins since they basically have lives, and have pretty good damage in those lives too.
 
Delfofthebla

Delfofthebla

Legacy Supporter 4
Retired Staff
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
United States
malikdanab said:
Technically it's only 70% on self, but yes.
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Which isn't part of the skill, but part of our "self heal override" we got in heroes. I'll be honest, I'm surprised that Kainzo is even OK with that. The skill is supposed to be a FULL heal.

However, Lay Hands in the MMO's of ancient past were all self target only. And if Herocraft's Layhands worked the same way, it would actually be a 100% fullheal. But it doesn't, and so it isn't (unless targeted on ally of course) I've wrestled with the idea of running that by Kainzo in the past, but I kind of enjoyed it as a support aspect, and I could never really decide which version I would hate less, so I never bothered.
 
Dakinara

Dakinara

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
i just hate skills that are incredibly strong with long cooldowns in general.

but the law... it is iron.
 
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