[Hamlet] One - Communist Collective [Neutral]

[MajorasMask]

Your questions were very aggressive sounding Majora, but it definitely is better to post them here so that people who are interested in joining your town can get some answers to potential questions easily. As a form of town that hasn't really been seen before (at least during zeal) and a form of organization that I personally have never seen succeed, you have to expect that a lot of people want to ask questions and that a lot of people wish to see your views and how you plan to handle potential issues. If anything, posting your responses here may alleviate some of the worries that people might have and would help show your organization and foresight to the rest of us thus bolstering your town's image.

But really Majora, you shouldn't make your questions sound so hostile. If you didn't intend for them to sound that way you really should read over them before posting so you don't cause confusion.

I don't think they sounds hostile..

 

[aceshooter11]

Everyone else Does

 

[MajorasMask]

Everyone else Does

Still, does not mean you should ignore my statement. I wrote that not in rage or in anger. I am still waiting for you to reply to my question I sent you via a message.

 

[AlexDaParrot]

I'll try to address some of these when I get to school on the main post....no guarantees, though. I feel as though Majoras brings up some valid issues with the Collective's structure that would outwardly look as to be a problem, but are instead simply misunderstood subsets of our mindset.

I think some of these questions may be going to the front page question section, hah.

Also, stay civil kind sirs.

 

[wolfgang784]

Damn good questions there Majora, and damn good answers Ace. I am going to try an answer a few because I am bored and as Alex said these are important questions, although his answers will most likely be fancier. I am too tired to be a fancy writer, but I will address the points to the best of my ability. I'll list the questions since they are on a different page =P.

1. That is fine. However what if a term and condition is changed (with a vote, with the result turning out to be something they don't like)? What do they do then? Leave? General question here.

1. If the vote turns into something someone does not like, then they have lost the vote. Everyone has an equal vote and an equal say, as well as a chance to voice their opinions and reasons in front of the rest(we have a meeting hall with a podium and such). If they lost the majority vote, it was fair, and they need to deal with it and try for a re vote later maybe depending on what it was about if a re vote is possible. In other towns not everyone gets a say, the mayor and a few others decide everything. We will have a small council, chosen by the citizens(which outnumber us founding citizens so we cannot vote ourselves on), but the important things will be decided by all. But really, if they don't like the decision that much, I guess they would leave then if it really got that bad.

2. Yes I know this. However you have the same oppertunity to fully control what a player does. For instance, what if you don't want them to leave the house? Shut the doors and trap them. In fact, you have the power to use those pre-made houses and turn them into prisons to completly seal off players who disobey your orders. Why not just kick a player from your town, remove him off regions, and seal up his house? It could be done.

2. The area to control things will be secure from raiders of course, but every citizen will have entry. If someone ends up locked in their house by someone, anyone else can let them out at any time, or they can just break the wall. As for removing them from the region and kicking them out for some reason, any town can do this. I have seen it several times, where the town finds out who was stealing from them and locks them up possibly in their own house. We may have the power(with a vote, individuals who do stuff like this would of course be punished), but we are not terrible people who would do this. That is one of the reasons we are comprised of old members and trustworthy people, so that we know nobody will steal since all citizens have vault access. So that we know that nobody will try to lock others up.

3. So you can not let players just build their own house? By themselves? What if they like your other goals and idea but just hate the town building plots rule? Does it become an exception to them? Oh wait, you can't do that, that would not be equal. Would you reject a player just because they did not like that one rule?

3. This is a role play of sorts. If you do not want to cooperate with the rules of the role play, you don't play. For the idea of everyone equal to work the houses will be as well. For safety and security, the houses will be the same. For space efficiency and making sure we don't have pumpkin/diamond/cobble/dirt/bad houses mashed together on 10x10 plots, the houses will be the same. The town will have group building projects, which is where everyone can dump their creativity and imagination rather than into a house. Rather than building something by yourself on a 10x10 plot, why not instead help your town members build something large and amazing? There are other towns where you can build whatever you want. Although I am not an imaginative builder and could not build a house as cool looking at the prebuilt ones, so this might be influencing my opinion here.

4. I doubt you'll go through the whole server map without letting new players join. I find it hard to believe your so called ''massive community of cities and capitals'' will be run directly off long-term and highly recommended players AND be at the edge of the map in some remote location. They can still not build what they want freely. It has to be ''approved'' first.

4. That is true, we may not survive forever. No town/kingdom idea can say for sure if they will last forever 100% for sure. We will be sure that towns do not lose their rings though by not expanding until we have at least ten citizens over the requirement. IE: No upgrading to city until we have twenty five members, even though you can upgrade at fifteen. This is so that even if we lose a lot of members for some reason, we will survive at least temporarily. As for the new members issue, we can let in newer player, just not brand new. We would want to see how they are on the server in general first. For an idea of equality to work we need trustworthy citizens who want the idea of communism to work, and for that to happen they generally need to be older member so that we can tell their personality. We do not necessarily need to be expand either, and not rapidly. If we can not find good enough citizens we can always stay a city forever, having fun end enjoying the server/town/idea. Addressing the need to build freely and have things approved, they can go outside town for that, or propose an idea to the rest of the town. There is no way around the approval, and it is the same in all towns, with the general exception of building on housing plots. But for the rest of the town things need to be approved by the mayor. You cannot just start to build something in any town and expect nobody to care, it always needs to be approved. The difference here is that rather than asking the person in charge for a yes and building, we are all in charge, so you need to put a little more effort into you. You need to be able to convince the majority vote of the entire town, and if everyone likes it we can start. I say we because generally town building projects would be a fun group effort, although if you really wanted to build it yourself then I would see no reason why not really, but it still needs to be approved. Another reason for approval is that we all share the same resources. Would you like to see half the diamonds you mined that week go into a statue of someone else in the town? I wouldn't, so they need approval.

5. You say that everyone is equal, everyone is a king. Would you allow all citizens to have full access to the town regions? The townhall regions? Would you allow them to kick/invite other players into those regions? So any citizen can accept applications and invite anybody in? Make everybody the owner of the region? Yes all major decisions are discussed, sure, and there might be a vote where everyone can take part, sure, but you still remain to have an un-equal society. Again back to the Animal Farm thing, you call yourself ''comrades'', however, you still have people that are more equal than others.

5. Here we have the largest flaw in communism itself, and one of the reasons it doesn't work in the real world. This is the best question so far, good job for making me need to think pretty hard on this one(it's early, damn you =P). I see no reason that all citizens cannot have access to all of the regions. If they add raiders and people get in, they will be kicked out. However there is not a large chance of someone doing that, again, because we are careful about who is allowed to join so that we do not need to worry about things like this. The same applies to the town hall regions, and is the reasoning behind giving everyone access to all the chests. Yes, some of the gold will be kept separate for rings/taxes, and that will be lwc'd to the current council and the old members removed if voted out. The council has more power, but if they were to do a single decision even that the town did not like they could all be voted out immediately and replaced by new members who have the interests of the people in mind more. I am sure the council will be ever shifting, keeping everyone power and making sure that the smaller decisions the council makes are always the correct ones. As for applications, again comes the voting. We all have equal votes, so letting everyone accept someone would be bad, but instead let everyone nominate someone. Everyone can recommend someone to the thread, they send in an application to the google doc, and the entire town can look at the google doc and post comments about the person to help influence the eventual group vote.

6. Yes it can. The so called ''collective'' is a group of players which share the same interests and goals, so I presume, and thus, a community. There are many other communities out there, meaning it can be compared. Just because your way of running things is different, does not mean it can not be compared.

6. Yes, that was Ace's fault there, I see no reason not to compare the collective, it will help to answer questions more. I will mention again that this is a role play of sorts in my opinion. It is up to everyone being of like mind and wanting to have fun with a unique experience. We may not have as much individual freedom as a TC or a normal town, but we have a fun and unique experience. The core idea cannot be changed of course, but some things could be changed later by votes. If the majority of the town does not like the houses, we could rebuild them differently. If the majority does not like the way the resources are sorted, then the system could be re worked. This is based on votes, equality, order, efficiency and everyone working as one large unit, rather than individual people.

- How (with the current requirements to be a citizen) you plan on managing to get to multiple capital/city townships status? How exactly are you going to get so many players to join (long term players that is, or the recommended)?

7. As said somewhere above, we do not necessarily need to expand to kingdom ever, and if it does happen, it would be a very long term goal. We are not aiming to be the first capitol, to be the first kingdom of the new map. We will go at our own pace and make sure we always have over the minimum to support the rings before we expand, not right at it. We plan, rather than on expanding rapidly and dieing out, but instead of surviving and having fun.

- Why can the collective not be compared?

8. Refer to question #6 =P

- Why is it you have to express equality in such a matter?

9. In what matter? I am not sure of the question here, sorry.


Well there ya go. I have tried my best to answer all of the questions. Not all of these things have been discussed in full depth, so thank you for brining up some very good points. What is written here is almost entirely how it actually will be, while some of it is my own ideas and will be brought up with the others later(my ideas were inserted where something could not be fully answered by me alone) but for the most part everything here is accurate and what is not entirely will be brought up. Please ask any questions you might still have, I enjoyed taking some time to write this out, as it has made me think about things that I did not consider before and given me many new ideas.

Also, just noticed, it took me an hour to write this. Damn time flies.

 

[MajorasMask]

Damn good questions there Majora, and damn good answers Ace. I am going to try an answer a few because I am bored and as Alex said these are important questions, although his answers will most likely be fancier. I am too tired to be a fancy writer, but I will address the points to the best of my ability. I'll list the questions since they are on a different page =P.




1. If the vote turns into something someone does not like, then they have lost the vote. Everyone has an equal vote and an equal say, as well as a chance to voice their opinions and reasons in front of the rest(we have a meeting hall with a podium and such). If they lost the majority vote, it was fair, and they need to deal with it and try for a re vote later maybe depending on what it was about if a re vote is possible. In other towns not everyone gets a say, the mayor and a few others decide everything. We will have a small council, chosen by the citizens(which outnumber us founding citizens so we cannot vote ourselves on), but the important things will be decided by all. But really, if they don't like the decision that much, I guess they would leave then if it really got that bad.



2. The area to control things will be secure from raiders of course, but every citizen will have entry. If someone ends up locked in their house by someone, anyone else can let them out at any time, or they can just break the wall. As for removing them from the region and kicking them out for some reason, any town can do this. I have seen it several times, where the town finds out who was stealing from them and locks them up possibly in their own house. We may have the power(with a vote, individuals who do stuff like this would of course be punished), but we are not terrible people who would do this. That is one of the reasons we are comprised of old members and trustworthy people, so that we know nobody will steal since all citizens have vault access. So that we know that nobody will try to lock others up.



3. This is a role play of sorts. If you do not want to cooperate with the rules of the role play, you don't play. For the idea of everyone equal to work the houses will be as well. For safety and security, the houses will be the same. For space efficiency and making sure we don't have pumpkin/diamond/cobble/dirt/bad houses mashed together on 10x10 plots, the houses will be the same. The town will have group building projects, which is where everyone can dump their creativity and imagination rather than into a house. Rather than building something by yourself on a 10x10 plot, why not instead help your town members build something large and amazing? There are other towns where you can build whatever you want. Although I am not an imaginative builder and could not build a house as cool looking at the prebuilt ones, so this might be influencing my opinion here.



4. That is true, we may not survive forever. No town/kingdom idea can say for sure if they will last forever 100% for sure. We will be sure that towns do not lose their rings though by not expanding until we have at least ten citizens over the requirement. IE: No upgrading to city until we have twenty five members, even though you can upgrade at fifteen. This is so that even if we lose a lot of members for some reason, we will survive at least temporarily. As for the new members issue, we can let in newer player, just not brand new. We would want to see how they are on the server in general first. For an idea of equality to work we need trustworthy citizens who want the idea of communism to work, and for that to happen they generally need to be older member so that we can tell their personality. We do not necessarily need to be expand either, and not rapidly. If we can not find good enough citizens we can always stay a city forever, having fun end enjoying the server/town/idea. Addressing the need to build freely and have things approved, they can go outside town for that, or propose an idea to the rest of the town. There is no way around the approval, and it is the same in all towns, with the general exception of building on housing plots. But for the rest of the town things need to be approved by the mayor. You cannot just start to build something in any town and expect nobody to care, it always needs to be approved. The difference here is that rather than asking the person in charge for a yes and building, we are all in charge, so you need to put a little more effort into you. You need to be able to convince the majority vote of the entire town, and if everyone likes it we can start. I say we because generally town building projects would be a fun group effort, although if you really wanted to build it yourself then I would see no reason why not really, but it still needs to be approved. Another reason for approval is that we all share the same resources. Would you like to see half the diamonds you mined that week go into a statue of someone else in the town? I wouldn't, so they need approval.



5. Here we have the largest flaw in communism itself, and one of the reasons it doesn't work in the real world. This is the best question so far, good job for making me need to think pretty hard on this one(it's early, damn you =P). I see no reason that all citizens cannot have access to all of the regions. If they add raiders and people get in, they will be kicked out. However there is not a large chance of someone doing that, again, because we are careful about who is allowed to join so that we do not need to worry about things like this. The same applies to the town hall regions, and is the reasoning behind giving everyone access to all the chests. Yes, some of the gold will be kept separate for rings/taxes, and that will be lwc'd to the current council and the old members removed if voted out. The council has more power, but if they were to do a single decision even that the town did not like they could all be voted out immediately and replaced by new members who have the interests of the people in mind more. I am sure the council will be ever shifting, keeping everyone power and making sure that the smaller decisions the council makes are always the correct ones. As for applications, again comes the voting. We all have equal votes, so letting everyone accept someone would be bad, but instead let everyone nominate someone. Everyone can recommend someone to the thread, they send in an application to the google doc, and the entire town can look at the google doc and post comments about the person to help influence the eventual group vote.



6. Yes, that was Ace's fault there, I see no reason not to compare the collective, it will help to answer questions more. I will mention again that this is a role play of sorts in my opinion. It is up to everyone being of like mind and wanting to have fun with a unique experience. We may not have as much individual freedom as a TC or a normal town, but we have a fun and unique experience. The core idea cannot be changed of course, but some things could be changed later by votes. If the majority of the town does not like the houses, we could rebuild them differently. If the majority does not like the way the resources are sorted, then the system could be re worked. This is based on votes, equality, order, efficiency and everyone working as one large unit, rather than individual people.



7. As said somewhere above, we do not necessarily need to expand to kingdom ever, and if it does happen, it would be a very long term goal. We are not aiming to be the first capitol, to be the first kingdom of the new map. We will go at our own pace and make sure we always have over the minimum to support the rings before we expand, not right at it. We plan, rather than on expanding rapidly and dieing out, but instead of surviving and having fun.



8. Refer to question #6 =P




9. In what matter? I am not sure of the question here, sorry.


Well there ya go. I have tried my best to answer all of the questions. Not all of these things have been discussed in full depth, so thank you for brining up some very good points. What is written here is almost entirely how it actually will be, while some of it is my own ideas and will be brought up with the others later(my ideas were inserted where something could not be fully answered by me alone) but for the most part everything here is accurate and what is not entirely will be brought up. Please ask any questions you might still have, I enjoyed taking some time to write this out, as it has made me think about things that I did not consider before and given me many new ideas.

Also, just noticed, it took me an hour to write this. Damn time flies.

THANK
YOU!

Finally a response which is easy to read and clear! Damn all the other replies I have got look like they were just writen from some government official whose job is to write laws and nothing else.

Your explaination actually helped me understand the town far better than AlexDaParrot's explaination. Why? I believe it is the choice of language. None of this fancy stuff I have been seeing in the past couple of pages. Solid, simple and plain english text. I like it!

And yes, you are fine with all the questions. I did not think about the RP aspect of the town and such, which I guess is the reason for the rules on equality and building ect ect.

All clear now, thank you for replying!

 

[KanJam49]

*face palm*

 

[MajorasMask]

*face palm*

Nobody asked for your opinion!

 

[Tyronus]

This is actualy funny majora you talk in circles.....

 

[MajorasMask]

This is actualy funny majora you talk in circles.....

Errm, nope. We reached a conclusion around 2 hours ago.

-.-

You on crack?

 

[Tyronus]

No im saying you have asked one of your questions 20 different ways. About the two hours thing its a FORUM it doesnt matter about time.

 

[MajorasMask]

No im saying you have asked one of your questions 20 different ways. About the two hours thing its a FORUM it doesnt matter about time.

Join me and together we can revive EVERY thread! The died long ago, but time does not matter sir Tyronus!

 

[agentjwall]

Peculiar idea...

Instead of choosing sides in your intense verbal debate about whether your establishment will succeed or not, I'll just say that it will be interesting to see how Time treats you...

 

[MajorasMask]

Peculiar idea...

Instead of choosing sides in your intense verbal debate about whether your establishment will succeed or not, I'll just say that it will be interesting to see how Time treats you...

Meaning? Sorry I am dumb when it comes to this fancy crap!

 

[agentjwall]

Meaning? Sorry I am dumb when it comes to this fancy crap!

In layman's terms: It's pointless to babble on about whether we think it will succeed or not when we can just wait and see the results...

 

[MajorasMask]

In layman's terms: It's pointless to babble on about whether we think it will succeed or not when we can just wait and see the results...

The main point of my posts were to have my questions answered. Yes there was a bit of questioning if it were to succeed or not, but there was not a lot of that.

 

[HolyRane]

@MajorasMask

You sir need to work on your questions... By reading this I see that you are a very angry person who hates our idea and wants to bash it, then when gets answers you claim they aren't good enough.

 

[agentjwall]

The main point of my posts were to have my questions answered. Yes there was a bit of questioning if it were to succeed or not, but there was not a lot of that.

I'm well aware. I was just saying that instead of giving my own opinion on the subject, I'd just wait and see what happens.

 

[Howdanrocks]

Personally, I am looking forward to being equal and working together with everyone. I made this decision, it isn't like we are forcing players to join us. Only players who are interested in what we have going here will join.

 

[HolyRane]

sounds like a plan yo