Suggestion Beguilers Need More Loving.

[Kainzo]

I have a question, then. Are Rogues dealing 7 damage for a Iron Sword intentional? (over the 5 damage Warriors get). I would think Warriors hit harder than rogues for a sword, so I am just a little curious.

Edit: Sorry for the off topic post.

Yep

 

[xexorian]

Beguiler isnt a melee caster - not sure where you ever got that idea from.

5 melee damage, highest in the caster group.
might, +25% melee damage.

and our only offensive skill outside of that, WAS fireball.

For some reason we have pulse, and sonicboom now which do minimal damage, only 10. And sb requires INSANE amounts of mana for a single 5 second silence, which is insanely too short of a time.

100 mana / 6 mana per 5 seconds ( silence should = the number of seconds it takes for us to regen the mana, or half that. so, like 16.6667 x 5 seconds = # of time in seconds it takes to regenerate from a single sonic boom, which is around 1 minute 40ish seconds. MORE than enough for any melee/other class to catch us and pummel us to death, for a single 5 second (1 round) silence.

Also, pulse is only like 12 damage.

Misconfig? I'm checking the files now.

Was a config issue, its been fixed.

Well, now my class is weak.

 

[Dazureus]

All the more reason to suggest more awesome things! Onward ho!

 

[Faunherer]

Let me get this straight. Wizards are supposed to be utility/high damagers, geomancers are supposed to be high damagers/aoe'rs, but what are necros and beguilers supposed to be?

 

[Dazureus]

Need confirmation from Kainzo, I think. Necro seems to be primarily debilitation plus transport to the Nether. I'm not so sure what to make of Beguiler. Definitely "screw with the enemy", but beyond that...

For the record, I also like the theme of lightning for Wizards- storm magic and teleportation. Whether that was strictly intentional I don't know, but I would love to just run with that. Geos seem to be Fire/Ice, and Necros have undeath/aggressive mobs. Between Plague Bomb and Piggify Beguilers almost seem to have passive mobs as a theme.

 

[xexorian]

Beguilers should be a "Trickster" style caster. Exactly like a wizard, but arcane/mystical in nature. I feel they should pull more utility that can turn the tides of battle, especially now that our melee damage is 3 and our fireball's have a (what seems like 3 second) cooldown and only do 17 damage.

I feel rather useless, and to think, my melee will literally hit for about 0.5 or less damage (or won't even register) against armored targets now. At least before I knew it would take about 120 melee hits (1 damage a hit) to kill a 55 DK, while he pummels me for about 10-25 DPS that entire time, with my mere 80 HP. I'd last about half a moment.

Even if I used fireball, and a pulse, and piggify, and ran around like crazy, I'd only be preventing the inevitable. At least I could take about 60% of a DK's hp with piggify +3 fireballs (that did 22 damage) and melee. Without might. With might it was finally looking to be nearly balanced, because during that time, I've got rot/decay or w.e. plus their melee, and anything else, like harm 2 splash potions. or They pop a speed potion and get 10 damage swings on me consistently. Not to mention Harmtouch.

I'm not saying DK's are op, I've just had the most experience fighting against them. Other classes I've beaten weren't specced or my level, or the players didn't know how to play them very well.

I think there is a ton more to balance beyond this, but I just feel as if my class, the beguiler, should keep up -- seeing as how it is a combat class.

Furthermore, I know my example was bad, because I can dispell a DK's dot, but not after it already ticks once or twice, by the time I see the chat msg, thru lag, and am not on a global cooldown of sorts.

If you truly want more damage sources, I think there's only a few things to do.

My suggestions;
1. Restore us to a melee/utility caster path by giving us like 5.625~ damage so Might bump's us just over a solid 7 damage, and/or give us like 10-15 more HP, and 10-15 more Mana.

2. Give us a decent DoT, or more powerful Pulse/SonicBoom (imba because it's late game, making us weak early on)

3. Build up our HP/Mana a bit more, and/or grant us immunity to silencing effects.

4. Make dispel OR purge work better/on more things.

5. Give us GroupTeleport and Teleport, as well as make safefallother usable on ourselves so we can maneuver better.

6. I think the passive mana regen increase is a bit weak, but, we don't really have much to spend mana on.

7. Remove the global cooldown from switching from Plaguebomb, Pulse, Fireball, and Piggify, as well as, tweaking their damage to be a bit higher. Beguiler's weren't even balanced at 5 melee damage (even if that was a bug.) IMHO.

8. A possible mana restoration skill, instead of a drain, perhaps a consume, but maybe consume buffs to restore health, or mana, or both. As in Sonic Boom applies a massive aoe silence, but you can consume it for mana, same with Might, consuming it for Health. (Consume having like a 30 second, or 1 minute cooldown)

Instead of consume, perhaps just call it "Absorb" and work like dispell, maybe have it also deal damage if it absorbs a buff off people. Like 10 damage. nothing serious. But that'd make it seem more like a Drain, when it's not.

 

[Aetosion]

TheTMTrainer No, Rogues get better damage with weapons, as it was intended. Rogues are built to deal damage - with less armor, Warriors have more armor, and deal less damage. A good example is how Paladins (purest tanking class) hit for 6 with a diamond sword, and Thieves (purest melee DPS class) hit for 10 with the same sword.

As for Necromancers and Beguilers, I'd look to the recent additions to the Necromancer skillset for clues on where it may go. Beguilers have a fairly well defined role of Crowd Control and disruption magic.

 

[KrunknMunky]

A good example is how Paladins (purest tanking class) hit for 6 with a diamond sword, and Thieves (purest melee DPS class) hit for 10 with the same sword.

We do 12 dmg with dia sword, just saying

 

[Aetosion]

Whoops, you're right. My point is reinforced

 

[TheTMTrainer]

TheTMTrainer No, Rogues get better damage with weapons, as it was intended. Rogues are built to deal damage - with less armor, Warriors have more armor, and deal less damage. A good example is how Paladins (purest tanking class) hit for 6 with a diamond sword, and Thieves (purest melee DPS class) hit for 10 with the same sword.

As for Necromancers and Beguilers, I'd look to the recent additions to the Necromancer skillset for clues on where it may go. Beguilers have a fairly well defined role of Crowd Control and disruption magic.

Ah. Ok, typicly Thieves are normaly more DPS with shitty armor... (or a debuff/1-shot-kill whore).

If I can suggest one thing, give all classes a level 1 damage skill, I am going to make a suggestion about this for ideas, but it takes 5 hits for a rogue to kill a zombie with an iron sword at lower levels... when casters get DoT and 2 hits.

 

[Aetosion]

Rogues can also keep fighting indefinitely as long as they're well fed, while casters need to stop after every 2 or 3 mobs to let their mana regenerate (especially after fireball mana requirement increases). I've played both Rogues and Casters, the limitations balance out after a bit, and there's really not a big difference.

I don't understand what you mean by "level 1 damage skill", all classes have melee weapons of sorts, Rogues more than any other.

Back on topic- Beguilers for chicken morphs!

 

[TheTMTrainer]

Rogues can also keep fighting indefinitely as long as they're well fed, while casters need to stop after every 2 or 3 mobs to let their mana regenerate (especially after fireball mana requirement increases). I've played both Rogues and Casters, the limitations balance out after a bit, and there's really not a big difference.

I don't understand what you mean by "level 1 damage skill", all classes have melee weapons of sorts, Rogues more than any other.

Back on topic- Beguilers for chicken morphs!

When I mean a level 1 damage skill, I mean something that uses mana during those first 10-20 levels of fighting for classes such as Rogues and Warriors. Not *damage* skills, persay, but skills like a 1 second Stun or a basic Knockback for warriors, and something else for Rogues (I shouldn't derail the thread, so I am going to drop it here.)

Also, it doesn't matter for Casters if they have a cooldown, a majority of them snipe out of reach of mobs anyway (even far enough to prevent mobs from agro...). I played a caster (before my unfortunate reset) and got to level 18. Their range for their fireball is a little... excessive.

 

[Demonxman]

it takes a lot of skill to hit a moving target and mobs at that can be difficult due to their movements are a bit different than real humans would do...

 

[Aetosion]

Demon's right, missing happens quite often. Unlike Rangers you can't pick up fireball mana from the ground. I probably hit 3-4/5 mob fighting fireballs, on a normal day.

 

[TheTMTrainer]

Actualy, I manage quite well when I am using fireball... that might just be me though.

 

[Dielan9999]

Demon's right, missing happens quite often. Unlike Rangers you can't pick up fireball mana from the ground. I probably hit 3-4/5 mob fighting fireballs, on a normal day.

Also given how much mana is used to do fireball, and how mana regen in a pvp situation isn't viable, missing is a serious deal. This only works to make Beguilers even worse than they are now. Although I did win against a ranger of equal level yesterday thanks ot the Necro's new DoTs, Beguiler STILL needs work.

Their entire mana bar isn't enough to kill a master warrior spec, and it's hard enough for casters to kill rouges because if they get close the caster is toast.

oh hey that rhymed.

 

[Demonxman]

meh, beguilers need tons of mana to be viable in a real pvp situation.... the amount of mana needed to use just piggify and sonic boom just destroy the mana pool which is a series deal considering fireball is the only real damage skill they can use (plaguebomb is too unreliable to be effective and the damage is way too low to be effective in ANY PVP situation.... so yea, I'm not gonna bitch anymore till we get our new skills kainzo has said in alert, TRANSFORMING SKILLS YAY!!!

 

[Dielan9999]

meh, beguilers need tons of mana to be viable in a real pvp situation.... the amount of mana needed to use just piggify and sonic boom just destroy the mana pool which is a series deal considering fireball is the only real damage skill they can use (plaguebomb is too unreliable to be effective and the damage is way too low to be effective in ANY PVP situation.... so yea, I'm not gonna bitch anymore till we get our new skills kainzo has said in alert, TRANSFORMING SKILLS YAY!!!

Did you also notice mana implimentation?

Do /mana sometime. Different classes have different ammounts of mana. It's a new feature so it hasn't been configured much (i don't think anyway), but Beguilers SHOULD be getting a mana buff.

edit: I'm not saying they WILL get a mana buff. I cna't promise these things

 

[Demonxman]

yea I saw it a bit ago when I was 42 and it said 140, might be more I haven't checked...


edit: well I thought it was 140 guess it was 120... hrmm

 

[Demonxman]

well in any case, I cant kill a 25 bloodmage cause my mana goes down way too damn fast, this class is broken.


and I am a 55 beguiler so I know what I'm talking about... unless you have four people with you you will never kill any class, ever.