HeroTEK - The Resurrection.

[malmenca]

I know a minute amount of JAva and I'd love to fuck around and try it.

 

[Laviathan]

• My first step is to nerf all EMC values for ANY item or block that can be grown, farmed or reproduced in any way, shape or form.
  • This means wood, saplings, leaves, cobble, stone, stone brick, crops, seeds, flowers, string, bone, arrows, rotten flesh, blaze rods, etc.
  • If you can set up a 'hands free' production line that continues to produce items for free, I'm looking to break it.
• I am considering an EMC value of 1 to start with, or zero if that doesn't fix the exploits.
• I am also analyzing and re-configuring the math within Equivalent Exchange to make it 'not so equivalent'.
  • Basically I want to factor in a cost for the conversion process. No more getting something from nothing.

You should also be sure to nerf milk buckets as you can make a fast going cow farm.

 

[Skaduush]

I know a minute amount of JAva and I'd love to fuck around and try it.

Well if you want to take a stab at it.. I need help de/re compiling the eeMAP.class file with some EMC value changes.. or help me figure out how to do it properly i keep running into issues, errors and crashing my local copy when i try.. not sure what i did wrong.

 

[Skaduush]

You should also be sure to nerf milk buckets as you can make a fast going cow farm.

Yep we are looking into that. Water buckets, milk buckets and what not will be 'zeroed' out to be equal to an empty bucket in EMC values. Also going to 'zero' out mushroom stew for the moo-shroom farmer setups so it will only equal your empty wooden bowl..

Also, also going to alter the energy gains of all the EE devices such that a full MK3 PowerFlower w/Relays is only as powerful as a MK1 without relays. I'm not putting all this effort into keeping EE in the game to enable 'creative mode', if you catch my drift.

 

[malmenca]

I'm not sure what to do? I feel like most of the "dupes" are out in the open, Skaduush are u looking to implement solutions, or do you want suggestions on how to resolve some of the issues?

 

[Skaduush]

I'm not sure what to do? I feel like most of the "dupes" are out in the open, Skaduush are u looking to implement solutions, or do you want suggestions on how to resolve some of the issues?

Both are needed until we are ready for release... Think of it as your server, what would you want to do to create a balanced, fun, playable environment for your user base?

This is going to be a wall of text (tl;dr), but if anyone is trying to help it is good to know where we are and where we are heading...

Summary:
Most of the Tekkit mods are balanced enough that only minimal tweaking is needed to make them suitable for our user base. Where we need the most focus and help is Equivalent Exchange as well as EE's interaction and exploit capabilities with other Tekkit Mods.

• Again, if we can't control it we have no choice but to pull it out and I'd much rather offer our 'balanced' version to our users than to just dump it.

Where we are with EE:
We have a good handle on the 'infinite return' machines that can be built out, milk buckets, bonemeal, mushroom stew, etc... Our solution is going to be to NERF the 'output' product equal to or less than the starting components so the net return is zero or less.

Infinite Return Machines:

• EE Infinite Milk Bucket Machines
  • Empty Bucket(768EMC) + Cow's Milk(Free) = Milk Bucket(833EMC) net gain 65EMC
  • NERF! Milk Buckets = 768 EMC
• EE Infinite Mushroom Stew
  • Wooden Bowl (6EMC)+ Mooshrooms(Free) = Mushroom Stew (70EMC)..
  • NERF !! Shroom Stew= 6 EMC
• EE Bonemeal/Darkroom... works off flowers/grass/seeds ..
  • NERF !!!! Flowers/grass/seeds = zero
• etc...

Known Dupes.

• DM Furnace = Disabled (I hate doing it but there is no other choice)
• Other easy / known dupe = Disabled Machine/block/item

PowerFlowers:

• My goals with PowerFlowers is to keep the MK3 machines and Relays.
  • Solution: Edit EE.class files to change the energy gain math in such a way that a full MK3/Relay PowerFlower will only be as powerful as a basic MK1 without Relays.
  • I don't know the specifc numbers but say a Full MK3 setup is 1000 EMC/second and a basic (no relay) MK 1 setup is 10 EMC/second then I will set it so a Full MK3 is now 10EMC/sec and a Basic MK1 = 0.1EMC/sec .. or something similar.
  • Reason: This will keep the machines in play, which is one of my major goals, as well as providing both balance and an upgrade path for players to shoot for.

I don't want the game to suck by turning off all the fun stuff, but if cheaters want to build for cheating, I will crush their dreams and burn them in a vat of hellfire, put their ashes in my pipe and smoke'm. Ahh the sweet essence of freshly crushed cheaters...

Where we need help:

Where we are lacking (or at least I am) is knowledge of how to properly modify the java files of a specific mod and successfully recompile the changes without causing errors or crashing the server...

I've been able to identify (de-compile) which EExxxx.class files contain the EMC parameters that I need to NERF. Bringing most of the exploits in line with acceptable balance... That was the easy part, where I've been unsuccessful is re-compiling one of my edited .class files that won't crash when I launch the server.

My knowledge of Java coding started only a couple weeks ago when I took on this project. I'm super busy at work so I can't spend as much time with Java tutorials as I would like so I can really understand java coding like I need to... I've got most of the basics and downloaded the JDK, purchased a decent de/re compiler tool, etc.. I just need someone with more Java coding knowledge to give me a quick 5 minute crash course in Java so I can see where I'm failing. I'm a VBA coder at work so I just need some pointers and I will get it...

Next Steps:
Once I can get a working 'customized' EE.class file on the server we can complete our testing phase and move into load test / final tweaks
When that is complete we will decide on a map, start building our spawn area add all of Kainzo's tweaks and requirements.
Then Roll it out for open play.

I would like to think we can have an open production server ready to go by or before the end of the year, easily. I just need to get over my Java .class hurdles and we are golden.

Let me know if anyone needs more direction or assistance. Still busy at work, wife will be out this weekend so hopefully I will get time to code/play/test.. Later!

 

[malmenca]

Infinite Return Machines:

• EE Infinite Milk Bucket Machines
  • Empty Bucket(768EMC) + Cow's Milk(Free) = Milk Bucket(833EMC) net gain 65EMC
  • NERF! Milk Buckets = 768 EMC
• EE Infinite Mushroom Stew
  • Wooden Bowl (6EMC)+ Mooshrooms(Free) = Mushroom Stew (70EMC)..
  • NERF !! Shroom Stew= 6 EMC
• EE Bonemeal/Darkroom... works off flowers/grass/seeds ..
  • NERF !!!! Flowers/grass/seeds = zero
• etc...

I put 1 mushroom into the EMC table, get 5 Mushroom stews..... Not digging it.

 

[Skaduush]

I put 1 mushroom into the EMC table, get 5 Mushroom stews..... Not digging it.

Wait what? The Transmutation table?

Once the EMC values have been tweaked that should balance out too, but we will check it... again once I'm able to successfully make a .class file

 

[Laviathan]

what steps are being taken into hand to handle uranium? on one hand it is kinda rare but high emc, on the other if u lower the value uranium is easier to make. =/

 

[Hydroking77]

I say keep it high. Mostly because I can make an efficient reactor with only ice, thus it could be free power really.
( Really choppy but I hope you get my drift)

 

[Laviathan]

I say keep it high. Mostly because I can make an efficient reactor with only ice, thus it could be free power really.
( Really choppy but I hope you get my drift)

If the rarity could be raised then keeping it high would be good.

 

[Hydroking77]

I certainly agree to that suggestion.

 

[Bonafideb3ast]

I certainly agree to that suggestion.

There is a agree button...

 

[Skaduush]

what steps are being taken into hand to handle uranium? on one hand it is kinda rare but high emc, on the other if u lower the value uranium is easier to make. =/

If possible we are only focused on balance and removing exploits. I think the default values of items are fine, so long as they can not be used in some duping, infinite machine, or other exploit.

Nuclear power should be hard to run and the resources rare to find, and once the fully tweaked EE mod is on the server it will be even more difficult to use a condenser to reproduce in any mass quantity.

 

[Kainzo]

Hows it going?

 

[Skaduush]

Hows it going?

I've not had a chance to work on the server in the last few days nor this weekend.. This week looks booked at work as well but we are very close to a public 'test release'.

My last hurdle is properly de/re compiling the EE Class files with the EMC changes we need to make for balance. I just need a 5 minute crash course in java compiling to get the ball rolling again. I believe I've got all the tools I will need to finish, but not the procedure.. yet..

Any suggestions or team members I can work with would be helpful.

 

[Kainzo]

I've not had a chance to work on the server in the last few days nor this weekend.. This week looks booked at work as well but we are very close to a public 'test release'.

My last hurdle is properly de/re compiling the EE Class files with the EMC changes we need to make for balance. I just need a 5 minute crash course in java compiling to get the ball rolling again. I believe I've got all the tools I will need to finish, but not the procedure.. yet..

Any suggestions or team members I can work with would be helpful.

I personally would avoid decompiling/recompiling, mainly due to legal reasons if the work isnt "open sourced" ... that and every update it'll break. We could maybe get with the devs and ask for changes but that probably wont work.

I say we just rip it out until we can fix it.

 

[malmenca]

^^^ #agree

I do expect a new tekkit version reasonably soon, many of the mods are up to date now.

 

[Skaduush]

I say we just rip it out until we can fix it.

Sooo trying to avoid omission.. ok.. No EE for now, but I'm still going to work on getting it to fit in some day...

Like Malmenca said another version of Tekkit is due out soon, MC1.4 is in pre-release now.

Let me setup a fresh Tek Server with no EE and load it up to test..

 

[Falker57]

Awww not the PowerFlowers!