Dragoon Needs Love

[Dazureus]

In very much the same vein as papabear's Bloodmage thread, I thought I'd sort of gather up all my ideas for the Dragoon class. It's been my theoretical favorite since I heard about it before Heroes was implemented, and now I actually am one. It's sort of plain- not bad, but in short it's merely a bulky warrior with Jump. So I've been thinking of skills that would liven it up.

NOTE: Skills that deal with players hitting objects or other entities cannot be implemented in full. Bukkit doesn't expose player collision, quoth Sleaker. This obstacle will persist for an indefinite period of time.

~My Ideas~

Spoiler

Javelin- 30 mana, 15-30 second CD- Consumes stone shovel, and the targeted enemy (up to 10 blocks away[?]) is dealt 15 damage and is slowed, dispelling all current speed buffs, cannot dash, and may walk slower than normal. Previously called Impale, but renamed when a skill called Impale got added to Herocraft proper (although at the moment it's not very impaley, I'd suggest renaming it Fling or Pitchfork).

Quake [cannot be implemented]- 60 mana, 20 minute CD- 20 second duration. Landing from a fall does AoE damage that is more severe and has a wider radius the longer the drop was, as well as a short Root or Push effect- standard hops will deal small, repeated damage that interferes with the foe's movement, while using Jump or SuperJump will do heavier damage with a larger range. Imparts SafeFall for the duration.

DragonSkin-35 mana, 10 minute CD- 2 1/2 minute duration. Reduces incoming damage by 3 or 4, renders user fireproof. Based on StoneSkin, a skill that was listed under Dragoon that I never saw used.

HolyLance- 40 mana, 10 minute CD- Usable only with shovels. When used with any shovel besides gold, 2 minute duration, attacks made with a shovel deal 1/4th more damage and the user is healed for 1/2 of all damage inflicted. When used with a gold shovel, 3 1/2 minute duration, those within a radius of 3-4 or all members of your party deal 1/2 more damage with any weapon and are healed for 1/4th of all damage they inflict. Javelin also deals 5-10 more damage. An offensive buff that takes elements of the Final Fantasy ability Lancet and gently whisks it with an ability based on the Holy Lance (which is also featured in FF, as it happens).

Rebound- 10 mana, 3 second CD- Technically a passive. When descending from a Jump or SuperJump, hitting a mob or player causes the user to jump again. I swear, I want to learn Java just so I can go "here it is, add it".

~Others' Ideas~

Spoiler

C12095:
-Flying Kick, Passive, Mana unspecified, Cooldown unspecified
Colliding with a mob or enemy while airborne would push and damage the one hit.

strongholdx:
-Street Sweeper, 50 mana, 300 second cooldown
4 or 5 block-long, 180-degree sweep inflicts damage on and stuns all enemies in range "for like 2 seconds or something".

-Bullet Dive, 20 mana, 1 minute cooldown
User is given SafeFall and will trigger a Quake-style effect upon hitting the ground. All enemies in range are dealt 10 damage and stunned for 1.5 seconds.

-Energy Boost, 60 mana, 250 second cooldown
For a 15-second duration, Jump (and SuperJump?) cannot be used and the user moves 40% faster for 5 seconds.

Here's a theoretical skillset for Dragoons, utilizing my ideas:

level 1-Mark/Recall
level 1- Disarm
level 5- Jump
level 20- DragonSkin
level 30- Javelin
level 35- SuperJump
level 40- Rebound
level 50- HolyLance

Any input or other suggestions are appreciated, and hopefully some folks like what I'm spitting out here.
b('_')

 

[Psychokhaos]

I am TheMormon, and I approve this message.
(Can't talk about what dragoons have and all that jazz, because I'm a crafter, but the ideas sound good! )

 

[Sleaker]

These are cool ideas, and I'd really like to do something like quake, but it's just not possible with Minecraft/Bukkit - there's no way to detect when a player 'lands' right now.

 

[Dazureus]

I got the idea for Quake from the rocketboots plugin. I think it was the chainmail that caused lightning to strike when you touched down from flying around. I don't know how they determine that, but it appeared to detect when the user hit the ground.

EDIT: at mormon's post below- And yeah, that.

 

[Psychokhaos]

Hmm... if there isn't a way to tell when a player lands, how does it know when to give fall damage?

 

[wolfgang784]

Not a Dragoon, but I still support this. They all seem decently balanced moves that won't make the dragoon OP but are still awesome skills and fit the class good as well.

With the current 2 skills they have it really should be the next class for an overhaul. I think 2 or 3 others might be down with them as well, but charge isn't even useful. Jump is not offensive really, mostly for surprising them and catching the enemy. Useful as hell, but it does no actual damage. They need some attack skills for a warrior at some point, and these all fit the class well.

 

[Dazureus]

More musing- HolyLance should only apply when using a "spear", right? Maybe having it do different things with different spears would be interesting. It would diversify the weapons that a Dragoon would typically haul around.

Wood- seems like a good fit for poison or something debilitating with a possible organic origin.

Stone -feels closer to a brute-force attack... damage increase to that of a diamond shovel (as an "oh crap I can't get to me diamonds, what can I do on short notice" type thing), or the flinch thing I mused about back at Quake...
Is slow currently an effect? Serious question, like making a person move as though they were walking on soulsand?

Iron- could heal the user when it lands a hit, thinking of the Blood Lances I noticed in the FF games I've played.

Diamond- knockback or simple damage increase... It's uncommon that a Dragoon would use any other weapons, so it would be best to keep this effect more-or-less straightforward. If you want to do something unusual, you should use something unusual. Well, this could be where the range increase fits in.

Gold- mayhaps igniting the enemy or something otherwise holyish. lightning bolts

I would at least make gold differ from the rest, it's not something people usually make tools out of. I'm getting the vibe that gold weps are "special". Also, a different name would be better, something less bright and shiny. Gungnir? Gae Bolg? If you wanted to go for obscure, how about Rhongomyniad?

 

[kriskills]

Impale seems a little strong for something ranged, and to push people back, and maybe a root? With a short CD and not much mana.

Quake would be cool if it would be how I am picturing it

Holy lance - Reach would be cool for a short time, but def OP because you could rape them without them hitting you. Maybe a short 10% buff to dmg or something.

Rebound would make you more of a ranged class. I hate hit and runs - Just a personal thing lol.

Pretty good list. Dragoons do need something more than they have. They arent bad though. They dont need too much. Would like to see 2 or so implemented to keep them up with other warrior classes

 

[Dazureus]

Impale consumes a non-stackable item, and 35 means you can only use it 3 times before mana regen becomes a factor. It's easy to consume your mana with just Jump as well.

HolyLance- really? "Short 10% damage buff"? :| That's rather unspectacular, to make use of understatement. A small range boost wouldn't rape everything by necessity, and remember that Kain already specifically told me no about this once. I just left it in because I still really like the idea.

Rebound- hit-and-run is, in my mind, what we do. Ranged class nothing, you still have to get in close and it consumes mana. Could take 15 or even 20, maybe.

 

[kriskills]

You want to have like 5 skills into one. That just shouldnt happen.

 

[Dazureus]

Merely running my mouth, Kris. So that anybody who cares can look at what I think would be fun in Herocraft. Nobody actually uses wood or stone weaponry either, even mages can use diamond hoes. With a skill that varies depending on the weapon used, you may actually see some use out of lower-grade weapons. I'd suggest the same kind of thing for axe-users or mages in a heartbeat.

Now, a -decent- buff that has an alternate effect with a gold weapon would not be overpowered. And that's all I would really expect to see.

Note: I try and take inventory space into account when I think of some of these things. To get full use out of all my skills as they are in the thread, you would need five shovels to switch between for HolyLance and a bunch of stone shovels for repeated use of Impale. Not to mention any food, redstone, water, lava, or other equipment you want to have on your person or in your hotbar.

 

[Elmeerkat]

i'm loving these, as a bored dragoon, these would give me a reason to go past level 10 (i'm at 25 but w/e).

 

[Dazureus]

Haha, I'm still at 10 myself.

 

[Sleaker]

Hmm... if there isn't a way to tell when a player lands, how does it know when to give fall damage?

it's built into the MC collision code stuffs. Bukkit doesn't expose any of the player collision like it does vehicles, so unless the implement some way to tell when a player lands without taking fall damage then skills that rely on the player landing aren't going to be reliably possible.

I have thought about doing something with Item types (wood/iron/daimong) but more along the lines of forcing players to bind their spells to their class weapons. If they have more than 1 skill that does that, then you'd be forced to carry alternative weapon types around, whihc might be kind of cool. Thoughts?

 

[Dazureus]

That sounds good to me, Sleaker. Of course, some skills shouldn't need to be bound to a specific item. Just to use what I know, you could only bind HolyLance to diamond shovels, and Impale to stone shovels (which would actually be pretty interesting- you would need the reagents in your hotbar if you wanted to use the skill), but Jump could be bound to anything.

How would this work with ImpChat by the way? Would this restrict the use of skills through text commands?

 

[Sleaker]

That sounds good to me, Sleaker. Of course, some skills shouldn't need to be bound to a specific item. Just to use what I know, you could only bind HolyLance to diamond shovels, and Impale to stone shovels (which would actually be pretty interesting- you would need the reagents in your hotbar if you wanted to use the skill), but Jump could be bound to anything.

How would this work with ImpChat by the way? Would this restrict the use of skills through text commands?

No, but you'd still need to have the weapon in your hand to use it. Assassin's Blade, Mortal Strike, and Poison Arrow already work like this.

 

[TechNinja]

it's built into the MC collision code stuffs. Bukkit doesn't expose any of the player collision like it does vehicles, so unless the implement some way to tell when a player lands without taking fall damage then skills that rely on the player landing aren't going to be reliably possible.

I have thought about doing something with Item types (wood/iron/daimong) but more along the lines of forcing players to bind their spells to their class weapons. If they have more than 1 skill that does that, then you'd be forced to carry alternative weapon types around, whihc might be kind of cool. Thoughts?

lol I didnt even notice this post when I asked you last night.

On a side note,

I recommend implementing either Fghjconner's HeropJump or Multitallented's DeathFromAbove when its finished. ^_^

HeroJump - very slightly longer and higher jump than Jump, and causes a "shockwave" on landing, damaging surrounding units.

DeathFromAbove - deals your fall damage to surrounding units.

 

[Sleaker]

lol I didnt even notice this post when I asked you last night.

On a side note,

I recommend implementing either Fghjconner's HeropJump or Multitallented's DeathFromAbove when its finished. ^_^.

Yah like I said, both of these require fall damage to activate, if for some reason you don't take fall damage during the skill. you get no damage.

 

[Farroes]

got say you have some pretty sweet ideas for skills/talents, but they are way to powerful(most of them)

 

[kriskills]

Agreed. Too many skills in one. Gotta stick to about 1 thing per skill, otherwise it starts to become too powerful