Zeal Plots and Their Current Problem

[GraRona]

I remember the days when I would go to Airbus' shop and SEE people there. I remember seeing people shopping there. Heck, I remember seeing people getting slaughtered there.

Now when I go there, it's a ghostland. No one is there. No one is killing and no one is shopping. Zeal plots have changed everything. People no longer need houses in the wilderness when they have zeal plots. They are convenient for them. They can store items with no fear of it getting stolen. They can afk with no fear of getting pushed into a pvp zone. I've afked for 30 minutes on the north road at prime time without taking any damage.

People can run their whole game life in spawn. Run a shop in spawn for some profit, you'll get alot without fear of campers who will ruin you're business. Buy gold from people in spawn, chest it. DHX bank it later to bankers at spawn. Make a profit and pay town taxes. Want to have a little fun to bring back that pvp adrenaline they've been pushing back? Thenhave a fight in the cage with a friend for fun. With plots, people no longer have to stray out of the protective bubble known as Zeal. The only time someone may actually need to leave spawn is when they want to go mining. When they go mining, they take the no pvp server rail to the 1.8 lands. Then, they submerge themselves under layers and layers of stone where the only person who can find them is a ranger.

Basically what I'm stabbing at is that Zeal plots are taking away that delicious passing through of the border between Zeal and the wasteland for us campers and pvpers. No one is coming outside to shop anymore and/or make houses.

Now, I understand that taking away Zeal plots would be horrible to many and a drastice change. I have come up with a simpler solution which I hope will bring back the people to Airbus' shop.

Create a new rule saying that no chest shops shall be allowed on Zeal plots. This way, people will have to create shops outside of spawn where pvp is on. People will have to use the dynmap to their advantage to check whether people are camping the shop they want to go to. They will have to be crafty and strategic while shopping. I remember one experience I had in AB's shop while I was a level 5 rogue. I needed to get into AB's shop to buy something (I actually forgot what I was trying to buy) but there were TCs camping the shop. I managed to get to the floor where the shop was selling the item while holding down sneak. I quickly unsneaked, bought the item, snuck again and crept back to my home in IronPass. If shopping ends up like this in Herocraft, it would be more hardcore in my opinion because you would have to live in fear while shopping.

For those of you who say this will give a disadvantage to crafters, bad pvpers, etc. I did this while I was a level 5 rogue and I didn't even have to use my sword. This means that even a crafter can do it.

 

[Popeyepoop1]

I completely agree, Airbus's shop is a great example. Back in the day you'd have to always be ready to fight since people would camp the stores. Now, like you said, everywhere is literally a ghostland. I feel as though pvp and the hardcore-ness of the server has decreased because of it.

 

[Kalkyte]

Just some points to ponder;
I paid 4100 for mine. That's probably a months worth of coin for me. Dedication should be rewarded imo.
I also love it...
Airbus has a shop in zeal. I see people there shopping all the time.
PvP near/in player shops is extremely distasteful.
Hardcore doesn't have to mean pain in everyone's *especially newcomer's* asses.
Promotes the camping of stores which I fucking hate in general. It ALWAYS leads to a big dispute.
Disputes are distasteful.
Promotes being an ass.
Historically has lead to bans because people take it too far.

Hell, take away my zeal plot but don't ruin Herocraft for so many people by making a primary source of revenue a ridiculous and painful endeavour.

In my early days I relied on Airbus' West road shop. I got so pissed from the TC I quit HC for two weeks. And I love HC. It just makes it dificult to enjoy so I stopped.

 

[GraRona]

I'm not saying remove the Zeal plot that you worked hard for. I'm saying remove the chest shops in ALL zeal plots. It IS possible for people to shop without dying as long as they're careful.

 

[Kalkyte]

It still invalidates others hard earned shops.

My stance is that in the Airbus case it only pissed everyone off. People were harrassed, lost their hard earned material goods, and some got banned.

I personally would prefer if HC avoided that.

 

[MajorasMask]

Kalkyte is right. Players WORK for their Zeal Plots, so they should have the ability to do WHATEVER they want with them. In addition, removing ALL shops from Zeal will also get rid of the Heromart, something which Kainzo has ADDED SPECIFICALLY so people with not have the ''PvP in shops'' problem.

I agree when Kalkyte said that it caused a lot of arguements and bans, it seriously did. PvP in shops back then was awful, players abused glitches to do bad things and it was a mess. I remember when I set up my shop on the West Road that I had to have 2 BODY GUARDS there to protect me! Horrible it was, nothing but horrible.

As for the shops, Airbus101 has worked hard to get that size of plot. You know how long it takes to get 25000?? A long time, a very long long long time.

No shops in the wild is NOT creating a non-hardcore Herocraft. ''Hardcore'' does not mean JUST lots of PvP! It means:

- VERY Tough MOBS.
- No Infinite LWC's.
- Hard to level specs.
- Item restrictions.
- Availability to claim and remove.

Yes, it is possible to shop without dying. IF YOU ARE LUCKY. Ever thought Granola that they might have seen you but not have been bothered to attack you?

 

[GraRona]

They obviously were ready to attack me because people were dying left and right from them in the chat.

What I'm trying to stab at, is that the server has been a bit too dray as of late and something really needs to be fixed. What is the point of 4 pvp classes and all their skills when I can't even put them to good use? The only opportunities I ever get to kill are when I am going on a raid or when there is a skirmish on the north road. There used to be alot more of those skirmishes, but now, I have to savor each and every one of them.

 

[MajorasMask]

Ok, anything else you'd like to add about my post?

Still difficult to survive. I have died many times because of them, even though I considered myself hidden.

 

[GraRona]

Two things are sucking up the pvp near Zeal. The server railroad and its no-pvp function and shops in zeal plots.

Also, maybe an agreement can be worked out. The only shops should be the small ones like Heromart which are on the Zeal island. Other than that, no chest shops should be in Zeal.

 

[AzenYumCha]

Zeal Plots shouldn't be introduced in the first place. If they weren't introduced - no one wouldve worked for them.

This server may be 'Hardcore', but now the server is being too protective in general. Referring to your statement Majoras, a zeal plot (which is basically a region you own by yourself) = inaccessible Chests by other players.

However, I still think ZealPlots are worth working for. The only shop I reckon should stay are ones built by Architects. It may sound silly but Architects are high ranked members and should have the privilege of having a protected shop in Zeal.

 

[Alator]

A quick areal count gives me 65 plots in zeal. That only represents a small portion of the rich active players who are able to purchase such an expensive item. The 'regular' players still live in places that require them to traverse the wilds.

I see where you are coming from, but disagree. A player rich enough to afford a Zeal plot, especially now is rich enough to buy a personal region or a swath of LWCs.

People always equate 'Hardcore; with 'PvP'. It doesn't mean (in my perspective) that you are required to throw yourself against the horde of PvPers if you want to do something; it simply means you need to be able to adapt to the situation. Players camping the roads and you want to mine? Sneak out or take the rails. Players camping your favorite shop? Sneak away and go somewhere else. Hardcore = work for your reward, not kill for your reward.

The hardcore discussion has been had a thousand times, but I think you may have miss-timed this post. The server is currently in a state where only the truly Herocraft-dedicated downgraded their clients to play, and happen to be the richest and most developed players. See what happens when 1.0 comes along, I'm sure you'll have plenty of people gleefully running across the border into your waiting swords.

 

[Kainzo]

Yuppers - wait for 1.0. To be honest I am really impressed that we're still hitting 80 online with a downgraded client.

now that's dedication!

 

[MajorasMask]

Yuppers - wait for 1.0. To be honest I am really impressed that we're still hitting 80 online with a downgraded client.

now that's dedication!

Exactly! When the 1.0 players come online there will be a lot more death.

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Anyway, a picture of a cute kitten!

ITS SO FLUFFY!!!!!

 

[KrunknMunky]

Also, gra, when the HTTP system comes out, there should be a war system integrated with that, which would bring a lot more pvp! @Kainzo is this still happening?

 

[madsplatter]

I feel that pvp has been lacking quite a bit lately, but I feel 1.0 will return a massive increase in players. It is somewhat depressing to travel down the west road without a sign of life, even the north road has become pretty desolate. I don't feel that chest shops in Zeal are entirely to blame however. The rails have taken quite a toll on pvp (not a bad thing necessarily, I appreciate the rails everytime I need to ferry gold to spawn), and Zeal plots have too. I'm not an avid pvp'er, but it is a bit disheartening to be able to travel across the land and still not find anyone in sight. Hopefully this will change with 1.0!

 

[GraRona]

I hope things look up once 1.0 is out. Maybe the problem isn't Zeal plots but the player base. I still do think that it is logical to link the lack of players on roads to Zeal plot shops. I am somewhat fine with Zeal plots themselves and I can tolerate them but not accept them. I just don't like the shops in Zeal.

 

[victim130]

I just want to put it out there that we are not a PvP server. This is a Hardcore Minecraft Server with the Heroes Plugin. Zeal plots were made for people to live and open shops in Zeal and if Zeal is your only source of combat, I suggest you try walking farther out.

 

[GraRona]

I just want to put it out there that we are not a PvP server. This is a Hardcore Minecraft Server with the Heroes Plugin. Zeal plots were made for people to live and open shops in Zeal and if Zeal is your only source of combat, I suggest you try walking farther out.

I know that people constantly are saying we are not a pvp server etc. Saying that we are a hardcore server with the heroes plugin is basically saying we are a hardcore server with heavily modified pvp. Why? Because there are 16 pvp classes to choose from compared to four building/money making classes. This shows how our server should be leaning towards the pvp side but still allow for decent crafter gameplay.

Also, about walking out further. When you walk out further, most people are sheltered in towns. In addition, the concentration of players at Zeal is by fair denser than anywhere on the map because players are spawning there all the time. The only problem is that people only have to grab redstone from a shop in zeal and avoid any danger from campers and bandits. If chest shops are not allowed, people would have to walk out to shops to grab their redstone.

 

[xFinaLx]

While you do have some good points, I don't agree that chest shops should be outlawed in Zeal.

The large amount of noble plots (and in turn, shops) creates some pretty harsh competition. Rather than one enormous shop overtaking an entire road (*cough* Airbus's old shop *cough*), the shops are evenly dispersed throughout Zeal. Due to the non-PvP aspect of the plots, and the fact that items are 99.9% safe, sellers and buyers feel much more comfortable in their shops.

I tried running a shop before Heromart and it failed miserably. We simply don't have the player base to support shops scattered around the would being profitable or worthwhile. If everyone was forced to close their shops, Airbus's Western branch would once again become the go-to and I believe our economy would suffer.

I do wish there was some type of risk involved in shopping in Zeal, but we're pretty limited when it comes to that.

 

[Stealth_Ninja_]

The server's pvp side shouldn't be based around camping shops that are in pvp zones. Its very VERY aggravating to go to a shop with gold to sell and in the process of trying you get jumped and lose it all. So having zeal plots with chest shops does not lessen pvp, it simply forces the pvp to be more well rounded and less focused on one aspect that almost always leads to dispute and in some cases, banishment. Also people don't spend time in random zeal shops, they spend more time in their town or donor region which is the main cause for the decrease in pvp. Rails shouldn't become a pvp zone, seeing as you could easily camp it, and take advantage of players being stuck in a minecart... The rails are mainly meant for traveling long distance, like around 1000 blocks or more. I use the tracks to get to Zeal from Atlantis, because its a 2k block travel, and would take too long on foot.