ALERT Townships War!

[Dielan9999]

i just read through all of these. i like all of witchys ideas and everyones ideas. Still think if we are forced to war there should be some type of way to get points for some of the people who like pve better. Also think the blocks regenerate to fast. Also i feel allied towns should be able to place tnt in towns their allies are at war with to help with the fight and the raiding. If allies being killed are worth points they should atleast be able to help with more then just the pvp.

I believe that's already the case if you formally ally with a town on the township plugin. Kainzo told me on Discord allied towns won't become exposed to TNT but can participate in the TNT placement at the enemy town with their allies.

Someone should prop up a couple towns on test and try this idk if we tested that. It's how it should work tho

 

[nicole1551]

I believe that's already the case if you formally ally with a town on the township plugin. Kainzo told me on Discord allied towns won't become exposed to TNT but can participate in the TNT placement at the enemy town with their allies.

Someone should prop up a couple towns on test and try this idk if we tested that. It's how it should work tho

i tired it with akuma he could not place in enemy town.. he could place right outside there regions which didnt help much

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

i tired it with akuma he could not place in enemy town.. he could place right outside there regions which didnt help much

And did the tnt he placed destroy enemy regioned blocks, or not?

 

[nicole1551]

And did the tnt he placed destroy enemy regioned blocks, or not?

yes but only if its outside of the regions can he place it.. but it did get us inside

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

Ah good info, all part of the picture.

 

[shortpower]

I gave up on explaining the system in one organized message:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1wCO1TrOGafXYhd_QTTRh8IF5LfJYxoZNFM9ye-buBdk/edit?usp=sharing

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

Loads of Townships/War fixes incoming.

Now some discussion about timings and other mechanics. Had a chat with a bunch of friendly Melons about a week ago and here's a summary of ideas that were bounced around - probably heavily influenced by my own interpretations. Looked at all in one place, perhaps some of these suggestions are great and some won't work so well - what do y'all reckon?

Rationale:

1. Incentives for upgrading towns
2. War mechanism that promotes enjoyable game play - and avoid abuse of the mechanism to wreck community experience.

Incentive to upgrade town tier:

• Set up overlapping citizen caps for the town tiers so that towns that want to grow don't have the option of staying T1. Min-max cit numbers would be T1 1-5, T2 3-10, T3 5-15, T4 is 10- etc).

• Allow towns to be able to be in multiple wars, relative to their tier – ie larger towns can be in more wars at the same time than small towns can be. [This would be both wars they declare and wars declared on them, yes?]

• Make it more expensive to declare war on large towns, and also more expensive for large towns to declare war... [This fits with lore ie it would cost more to fight a larger force, and also cost more to mobilize a large force - but how would this play out ingame at HC?]

• Also see next section.

New towns:

• New towns can’t participate in war (ie declare war or have war declared against them) unless:

1. They are at least 1 week old, or
2. They upgrade to T2 if they do this in less than a week after creation.​

• However enable new towns to be ally-able immediately on creation? [This would be good where towns are consciously setting up new towns in prep for war, but not good if new towns aren't aware of the consequences of being allied to a town at war.]

• [Personally I think T1 towns should be straight out excluded from war so that new or low key players still have the option of a small town experience without being vulnerable to war at all - but could this be exploitable?]

Chance to find out that you've had war declared on you:

• Have a lengthy war warm-up to give players the chance to log in and see whether they are at war, ie change warmup from 5 minutes to 12 hours? 18 hours? 24 hours?

Limiting betrayal by allies:

• Introduce a cool-down between un-allying a town and declaring war on them, to combat betrayals during war - maybe 12 hours?

Insuring against war:

• Introduce a way for a town (eg a rich high tier merchant town) to insure globally for peace (currently you can only sue for peace against individual towns that have declared war on you).
• Time frame - 24 hours? One week?
• Cost?

Cooldown on war participation:

• Introduce a cooldown on being involved in a war... [you know, this one won't work if towns can be in multiple wars... unless I'm missing something here...]
• Idea was that the higher your tier, the shorter the cooldown.

Issues with allies:

• Currently, if you are at war and your allies are killed but not your townsfolk, this can actually lose the war for you.
• Maybe make it possible for allies to elect whether they're participating in your war?
• Warping to ally town spawns - suggestion to only make this possible if you and they are at war with the same town... [this doesn't seem viable to me, too messy, multiple wars at once and so on]

Keep in mind, please, that there are two practical aspects to this discussion:

• The plugin is still being actively developed, and the nodes to bring in many of these arrangements need to be created.
• Once the nodes are in, then it’s a simple case at Herocraft to configure the various time frames, tier limitations and so on.

@Kainzo @Morphan1 @Admins @Moderators @Symbolite @victim130 @Skaahr @LarryDeCable @ironee212 @Colonel Rick @EveryoneInterested

 

[Dielan9999]

A couple of additional notes

• [Personally I think T1 towns should be straight out excluded from war so that new or low key players still have the option of a small town experience without being vulnerable to war at all - but could this be exploitable?]

I think maybe we could make more use of the town HerosWatch? Kainzo told me this was some kind of staff run newbie town. Nobody seems to know anything about this. Could we automate the placing of new players into a starter town? Would take manpower, like proctors and guides to facilitate so maybe not..

• Have a lengthy war warm-up to give players the chance to log in and see whether they are at war, ie change warmup from 5 minutes to 12 hours? 18 hours? 24 hours?

We also need a command to check ongoing wars right that moment.

• Introduce a way for a town (eg a rich high tier merchant town) to insure globally for peace (currently you can only sue for peace against individual towns that have declared war on you).

This would be the most endgame of objectives for a merchant town. Probably still exploitable but if we enter a predictible map reset cycle and plot out the cost for this advantage accordingly it MAY NOT be broken. Still a controversial thing to implement.

• Set up overlapping citizen caps for the town tiers so that towns that want to grow don't have the option of staying T1. Min-max cit numbers would be T1 1-5, T2 3-10, T3 5-15, T4 is 10- etc).

Yes please! There's no reason a city sized township should have 60+ members. It removes the incentive of upgrading and causes people to roll into larger and larger towns without really putting the work in.

For example, Draken-Thul at the time of writing has 18,370 coins in their bank with a daily upkeep of 175 coins at tier 4 with a population of 32. In contrast Enlight is the same size at tier 4 with only 25 citizens and 4229 coins in the bank. Additionally Drastikos currently has a population of 67, which is far too large for how much it cost for this city tier but we haven't combed through our inactives and it's probably closer to 40 members. Incentives to upgrade may not really do much when you have so much cash saved up like DT that tier-based restrictions may be appropriate. If we introduce citizen caps like tier 4 could be like 25 it would also cause towns to police their inactive members like the good old days.

 

[LordZelkova]

On mobile so replying is wonky, @Dielan9999 we tried running it manually and everyone kinda faded out. We lack the real staff power to run a noob town manually. I'm going over guides and have quite a few things lined up, but HeroesWatch won't survive unless we have people dedicated to running it and guiding the noobs head on, and that's a lot to ask.

 

[Skaahr]

I think that one problem with the incentive-to-upgrade-towns sort of plateaus out at around Tier 4. Past that, it's incredibly expensive with relatively little reward, which is why I haven't bumped Auricha up to Tier 5 yet.
*This could be fixed with material rewards, perhaps. Another thing that factors into the upgrading of a town is whether or not the town will even end up producing the materials needed for upgrade. If a new player places their town in the wrong biome, or they're simply unlucky and the town doesn't produce what they need for upgrading, it could entirely screw them over.
**-cut- (I realize now that I totally misunderstood this part of the post. Gotta stop writing things at 6 AM.)

 

[Dielan9999]

I think that one problem with the incentive-to-upgrade-towns sort of plateaus out at around Tier 4. Past that, it's incredibly expensive with relatively little reward, which is why I haven't bumped Auricha up to Tier 5 yet.
*This could be fixed with material rewards, perhaps. Another thing that factors into the upgrading of a town is whether or not the town will even end up producing the materials needed for upgrade. If a new player places their town in the wrong biome, or they're simply unlucky and the town doesn't produce what they need for upgrading, it could entirely screw them over.
**In response to T1s not being involved in war/being able to cap castles, I feel like there should be a level limit behind it, not just disallowing T1s. Most players on the server stay max-levelled T1s because at that point, the class is usually as good as needed. Or so I've noticed. And it's a hassle to advance to T2, I've noticed, because of the EXP drop. It's turned a couple members from Auricha away from going T2 as soon as possible. Maybe any players under level 40 for T1s, and under 20 for T2s cannot participate?

I agree, i'm only not tier 5 because i'm missing a town material that doesn't generate in our biome. though beyond tier 5 or 6 being the upper limit the daily cost isn't sustainable without some hardcore daily grinding that we don't wanna do. Hence the tier 4 plateau

 

[Kainzo]

I agree, i'm only not tier 5 because i'm missing a town material that doesn't generate in our biome. though beyond tier 5 or 6 being the upper limit the daily cost isn't sustainable without some hardcore daily grinding that we don't wanna do. Hence the tier 4 plateau

The goal of the biome resources is to trade and war with other towns. I'm not biased here but I am truly seeking knowledge, how could we make this a more palpable thing to happen?

 

[Dielan9999]

The goal of the biome resources is to trade and war with other towns. I'm not biased here but I am truly seeking knowledge, how could we make this a more palpable thing to happen?

I wouldn't be complaining about this particular thing normally but there's currently a bug in war that i've already reported where if you war an inactive town you still lose because you don't get offline points fast enough (combined with war starting over on nightly server reset) and it gives them the win. Or maybe we did win and it awarded the inactive town the victory i'm not 100% sure what happened. The only town in the biome i need materials from is an inactive one so I can't trade, but we can war. The system would work fine in that regard if and only if that bug was fixed.

The criticism for daily coin cost for tier7 and above still stands though, my group doesn't have the time to grind enough to pay it, even though we are large.

 

[Kainzo]

I wouldn't be complaining about this particular thing normally but there's currently a bug in war that i've already reported where if you war an inactive town you still lose because you don't get offline points fast enough (combined with war starting over on nightly server reset) and it gives them the win. Or maybe we did win and it awarded the inactive town the victory i'm not 100% sure what happened. The only town in the biome i need materials from is an inactive one so I can't trade, but we can war. The system would work fine in that regard if and only if that bug was fixed.

The criticism for daily coin cost for tier7 and above still stands though, my group doesn't have the time to grind enough to pay it, even though we are large.

That war issue is fixed for Friday's patch

 

[Colonel Rick]

@Dielan9999 It wasn't that we weren't getting points fast enough, the points were going to the inactive town's score. But it was telling us we were getting the points.

Would it be possible to have a King of the Hill function to "capture" enemy towns to gain larger point bonuses? Similar to the castles, it could give towns with larger player bases, or better players a way to win quicker, or to fight back against a more skilled force. I would like to see additional ways to wage war besides killing opposition.

 

[Symbolite]

The goal of the biome resources is to trade and war with other towns. I'm not biased here but I am truly seeking knowledge, how could we make this a more palpable thing to happen?

For biome specific materials the problem is not with trade and war, I've successfully traded with other mayors in the past for resources I needed and for resources they needed. I haven't physically seen the war effects yet on biome materials but that's also sounds fine. The problem right now is the server is lacking the players / towns to support the system more effectively. My town is not T5 yet because I cannot find an active town with an active mayor/SiC to trade with atm from a Savannah biome. Not saying one does not exist but I have yet to find one and I will keep up the hunt