ALERT Townships War!

[Dielan9999]

Supposed to take 12 hours (timer is set to that)

Also, suing for peace shouldnt be a "win:


just a counter measure.
The war cooldown is intended to be 12 hours, not ONE hour.

We'll get a fix in for this asap.

Oh we weren't implying it was a win no. The only thing we can do to survive until it's fixed is idle in safe zones so the enemy town can't reach the kill limit nor get the offline passive points so the war is stretched out to the maximum length. If we let them kill us we'd get re-warred a couple times in the same amount of time it takes us to bleed the timer once.

 

[RegularHumanMode]

Is there a "Double Jeopardy" thing where you can't be warred by a town if you're already at war with another?

 

[SirBaskomWelford]

This is a very real issue that I'd like to address some how soon. @Morphan1

We could adjust the warm up time so that its 30 mins to 1hour and we could make it so that the war lasts 6-12 hours so it covers a much large time span.

Didn't help. They just waited till the late hours of the evening and came to sack loot. Lost quite a lot from chests covered with dirt, though not lwcs. Additionally how much tnt did it take to get through obsidian? All we lost was in a bunker with obsidian on all sides and roof/floor. Tested 20 tnt and it didn't blow through obsidian so wanted a rough estimate for future reference.

System's kinda broken tbh. Seems to encourage opportunism to wait for people who are offline then pay war to drain their bank/sack loot covered by dirt without a chance at defense.

Also water is leaked into parts of the town from a block that was blown up that did not spawn properly. And chests that respawned did so at weird angles compared to their original arrangement.

 

[Kainzo]

System's kinda broken tbh. Enemy town just waited till midnight when we logged off, blew through an obsidian bunker (with lwc iron doors protecting entrance) and proceeded to loot the town. Seems to encourage opportunism to wait for people who are offline then pay war to drain their bank/sack loot covered by dirt without a chance at defense.

It'll have a cooldown so that it cant happen multiple times in a row and the cooldown will respect it.

Thank you for the feedback, what would you suggest as an alternative?

Is there a "Double Jeopardy" thing where you can't be warred by a town if you're already at war with another?

This is actually untested water, @Morphan1 thoughts?

Oh we weren't implying it was a win no. The only thing we can do to survive until it's fixed is idle in safe zones so the enemy town can't reach the kill limit nor get the offline passive points so the war is stretched out to the maximum length. If we let them kill us we'd get re-warred a couple times in the same amount of time it takes us to bleed the timer once.

Understood, hoping to get a fix in today or tomorrow, still out of town though.

 

[Kainzo]

Didn't help. They just waited till the late hours of the evening and came to sack loot. Lost quite a lot from chests covered with dirt, though not lwcs. Additionally how much tnt did it take to get through obsidian? All we lost was in a bunker with obsidian on all sides and roof/floor. Tested 20 tnt and it didn't blow through obsidian so wanted a rough estimate for future reference.

System's kinda broken tbh. Seems to encourage opportunism to wait for people who are offline then pay war to drain their bank/sack loot covered by dirt without a chance at defense.

Use LWC to protect valuables, dirt on chests has never been a safe method in Minecraft, several exploiters can still get into them.

 

[SirBaskomWelford]

Use LWC to protect valuables, dirt on chests has never been a safe method in Minecraft, several exploiters can still get into them.

Lol we got 15 lwc chests out of the 50 double chests of gear and build supplies in town. Never going to be able to protect all that. Seeing as obsidian isn't secure we're pretty much bait for anyone who wants gear and can afford the tnt/war. Rip town

Though honestly, if we get charged for the war once the timer is up that would be wrong. Seeing as no one was there to defend, if we have to pay several thousand for it I'd recommend adjusting the plugin.

 

[LordZelkova]

Use LWC to protect valuables, dirt on chests has never been a safe method in Minecraft, several exploiters can still get into them.

Would it be possible to grant more LWC's to Mayor's?
Would allow them to protect more chests, offset would be no price decrease like with Donors.

 

[Kainzo]

Lol we got 15 lwc chests out of the 50 double chests of gear and build supplies in town. Never going to be able to protect all that. Seeing as obsidian isn't secure we're pretty much bait for anyone who wants gear and can afford the tnt/war. Rip town

Though honestly, if we get charged for the war once the timer is up that would be wrong. Seeing as no one was there to defend, if we have to pay several thousand for it I'd recommend adjusting the plugin.

You arent supposed to be protect everything, there needs to be risk.

 

[LordZelkova]

You arent supposed to be protect everything, there needs to be risk.

Protecting enough chests has long been an issue.
There's never enough to just protect valuables.

Towns were given regions to use, but with war they don't mean anything since during war their walls can be blown open and chests raided.

 

[RegularHumanMode]

Lol we got 15 lwc chests out of the 50 double chests of gear and build supplies in town. Never going to be able to protect all that. Seeing as obsidian isn't secure we're pretty much bait for anyone who wants gear and can afford the tnt/war. Rip town

Though honestly, if we get charged for the war once the timer is up that would be wrong. Seeing as no one was there to defend, if we have to pay several thousand for it I'd recommend adjusting the plugin.

Hide the goods in a wall that would have no value being blown up. Money wise, I can't help ya.

 

[SirBaskomWelford]

You arent supposed to be protect everything, there needs to be risk.

Respectfully, we're not noobs we get that risk exists. But the exploitable nature of wars just to grab towns gear at a time where there is no possible measure of defense is unfortunate at best. Question, for bulk build supply like cobble how secure is the town bank storage. Like is it prone to errors that wipe the contents or would it be a semi secure facility to place stuff that is taking up too much space?

 

[Kainzo]

We've temp rolled back Township code while we work out some major kinks. Some loading issues with towns at war (Looks like Crypt was the cause twice)

It'll be back in, properly and hopefully balanced from the feedback.

 

[Colonel Rick]

@Kainzo unless things have changed since I went to bed. A town only receives 1 point per hour their opponent is offline. I don't know what your intended scale is, but you made it sound like it would be more.

 

[victim130]

@Kainzo Another idea, any chance players below 20-30 may not count towards the war score? Had the thought that it might discourage the recruitment of newer players if they might become a liability. Or a penalty to towns who do.

 

[Dielan9999]

@Kainzo Another idea, any chance players below 20-30 may not count towards the war score? Had the thought that it might discourage the recruitment of newer players if they might become a liability. Or a penalty to towns who do.

To add on to this - we were basically ready to kick newer players of our town who were single handedly losing wars for us. This might not be the plugin or the servers problem but Vic has a point that it makes giving newer players a chance a higher risk. I think the point per kill should scale off level so they are worth less or worth nothing when low enough. They never stood a chance against a level 60 anyway. To balance this concept anyone low enough to not cost points on kill should not hold back the afk points the enemy gets when a town is offline.

 

[Symbolite]

@Kainzo

I noticed TNT destroyed all terrain except Obsidian when not at war but when war was enabled against a town, Obsidian within that town was melted by single TNT blasts. This probably has something to do with you upping the chance to 25% when we informed you TNT wasn't blowing up Obsidian at all at 5%. Might be a good idea to lower that % back down to 5%. As it stands, a wall of Obsidian stands no chance against a single TNT detonation because every piece of Obsidian in the blast radius has a 25% chance of popping resulting in Swiss cheese effect.

I would also like to suggest (and this has probably already been suggested) some kind of scoreboard so we can see how we're doing in our war.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

Some suggestions:

To provide info on the progress/status of war:

• Add town politics (allies and current wars) to /town info TOWN
• Make a command /town politics tally - to show the points each side has in a current war - or a heads-up display - shows only stats relevant to your own town
• Make a /town politics list - to list all the towns currently at war on the server - can be used by all players
• Add to each player's welcome message when they log on something like: Your town is at war with TOWN or Your town is not currently at war.

Conduct of war - plugin development + HC settings:

• I'd like to see towns only able to participate in ONE war at a time (agree with you @Dafefman ). This should at least be configurable in the plugin.
• Atm the plugin config has a 12 hour limit it in [# Time in minutes until a town can be declared upon. war_cooldown: 720]
  - @Kainzo I'm pretty sure this is to stop a new town going to war before it's at least 12 hours old. It is NOT cooldown period for between war events. Not able to test this properly with the war aspect currently disabled.
• Need to have the option added to provide time between experience/declaring wars - ie the 12 hour cool down that we assumed was in but isn't.
• Perhaps 12 hours isn't long enough - how about 24?

There are more things mentioned that I'll cover, but these stand out for me:

• Obsidian - chance of destruction by TNT needs to be lowered again, current rate has effect of 100% destruction it seems.
• Losing a war can put your town bank into the negative - which means a town could log in to find they have to find 1000s of coin, perhaps, before the next tax time or lose the town - don't like this. I guess I think a town bank shouldn't be able to go negative.
• Towns who welcome new (inexperienced) players are being penalized because the newbies are so squishy. We want to encourage towns to take in new players, not discourage them. So it's worth considering @victim130 and @Symbolite 's concern that new players set a town at a disadvantage during war.
• I'm not seeing the point of being able to war an offline town. Perhaps someone could enlighten me.

Also water is leaked into parts of the town from a block that was blown up that did not spawn properly. And chests that respawned did so at weird angles compared to their original arrangement.

@Kainzo, pretty sure these are known bugs from last time we had TNT region damage enabled. These problems need to be addressed, or at least publicized so that players know that the risks of being warred include wonky chests and water damage.

Don't know whether this is doable at HC on the current map, and I'd like to hear people's opinions on how it might affect game play:

• I'd like to see Tier 1 towns excluded from war.
• New players join the server, ask how to protect their stuff, we tell them to join or make a town. They make a town and instantly they're vulnerable to war, with no way to opt in/out. This doesn't seem right.
• If war were to be limited to T2 towns and above, this gives players the chance to actively opt in.
• To make this work, T1 towns would need a pretty low citizen cap (maybe 5 or 6). (I thought citizen caps for each tier had been introduced, it appears not. My suggestion is that they be overlapping, ie T1 is 1-5, T2 is 3 to 10, T3 is 5 to 15, T4 is 10- etc).
• Would also be good to have more incentives to increase your town tier beyond access to more chunks.

Love the war system quite a bit, just wish there was a visual ui to keep track of score and current town politics.
A system similar to Hearts of Iron may not be a good idea for war start and ending:
- War must be justified over a length of time before it can be declared
- The more wars a town STARTED the short er it takes to justify against them (aggressor bonus)
- Once a war is ended a truce is signed between the towns for x length of time

I'm not really following what @shortpower is saying here, but I have the sense it's worth considering.

 

[Dielan9999]

Snip

Id like to emphasize that town banks should absolutely not go into the negative. This is probably the next most important thing to fix after the re-war ring timer being short.

 

[victim130]

-Snip-

The idea behind going negative and warring offline towns is to encourage activity. This way towns like MuhammedandSons are not allowed to survive until map's end on a few thousand coins. I understand and agree though, that it can be harmful to active towns in the wrong way. Maybe a compromise instead:

Towns with no members online can be warred, but the warm up is significantly longer to allow active towns the time to log in and see what's going on. This way, inactive towns still get penalized and we allow active towns with a decent sleep schedule the opportunity to defend themselves.

On that note, going negative should only allow for a certain threshold (Or maybe even just to 0). Being no more than 100-500 coins negative.

 

[nicole1551]

i just read through all of these. i like all of witchys ideas and everyones ideas. Still think if we are forced to war there should be some type of way to get points for some of the people who like pve better. Also think the blocks regenerate to fast. Also i feel allied towns should be able to place tnt in towns their allies are at war with to help with the fight and the raiding. If allies being killed are worth points they should atleast be able to help with more then just the pvp.