Stimulating the Herocraft Economy

[Faunherer]

As we all know, the Herocraft Economy is bland. The way currency enters the server is through selling gold and iron to DHX. The only way it leaves the server is through township taxes and buying zeal plots, etc. There is not much money going in or out. The money that goes in usually all goes to mayors of townships. They form the elitist class of HC and their money just sits and waits, getting emptied out once every week for township taxes. There needs to be a way to stimulate our economy! This server does not solely consist of pvp! If there was more ways for money to enter the server and more ways for it to exit, that would stimulate the economy a bit.

Earning money is boring, nearly the only way to do it is to mine and get the gold to DHX (be it through a banker or not), there should be a way to stimulate economy between the players! I have thought up multiple ideas to stimulate the player to player economy (PTPE):

1. Food/ Farmed Materials
The need of food and farmed materials should be increased (we can make it so hunger kills and heart regeneration from being full is slower). If the demand for a product is high, the price will be high too. That could fix the dirt cheap prices of most foods at the moment.

What about the excess crops you ask? Excess crops will sit around and cause prices to drop drastically, which would ruin the agricultural economy, if they are not taken off the market! My solution would be to create a 'company' (which has to be officially created and has too be associated with a township/guild (which can only house one company) that controls/monitors/sells its product). If that company has excess product (which is determined if it has not been sold in a 24-hour day) it can be sold to DHX for full (or a slightly smaller?) price. A subsidy system is basically what I am hinting at.

2. Jobs and a Labor System
The company system I thought up earlier may apply for any other industry. It could be for mining, logging, farming, building, excavating, protecting, assassinations, etc. The way that jobs for laborers (or the working class) are created is through the company system. For a company to become, it has to be associated with a township/guild, has to have a minimum of 5 workers (or however many seems best), and has to have an owner who pays a 1.5k fee for the creation of the company. The workers have to be payed by wages, salaries, or through contracts. Workers may only be employed at one company at a time and has to wait for 3 days (like townships) before they can switch companies. This is yet another way to get money flowing.

3. Produce and Consumers (the Physical Market)
The main consumers would be the working-class, who would have some left over money. Items produced from companies will be on the market, where they will (more than likely) be bought by the working-class. This stimulates money flow back up to the companies, so the employees are not stuck with fat wallets. The problem though is that people usually do not have time to go way away to buy something. That is why I think there should be smaller Zeal zones that are about 2000 or so blocks away from original Zeal in each cardinal directions. These Zeal zones would have purchasable plots used for trade only. This would make markets more accessible by the majority of the community.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Example of the Company System:
Township/guild: K-town
Company: K-town Excavators Boss: Bawsman Employees: Emp1, Emp2, Emp3, Emp4, Emp5
Payment: Hourly wages, tools provided, materials kept if contractees allow.
Purpose: To excavate large areas/mine mass materials for contractee.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

TL;DR :
Our currency is helluva lot deflated.
The buying power of most Herocraft residents is LOW, which makes markets nearly useless.
Money is stuck in the elitist class (mayors technically) and does not flow fluidly (as we want it to).
The demand of food, labor, and many other products should be increased to create a stronger economy.
More money should be flowing in from outside sources (DHX) and more should be flowing out.
Towns/guilds can have one company (which decides the industry in that place pretty much).
Companies employ the 'working-class'.
There needs to be more areas to trade, that are accessible by more people, and that are more secure.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

TL;DR the TL;DR
The coin is deflated. There should be companies with workers. Prices should be made higher. A class system needs to be implemented.

Everyone treats HC as if it is based around PVP and only PVP. It is time to make HC more varied, more exciting. We need to make an actual economy!

 

[GraRona]

Completely agree. As a noob, I am finding it really hard to make coin other than minestatus voting.

 

[Farroes]

very good post sir, I would add my view now, but i really need to sleep lol

 

[Faunherer]

very good post sir, I would add my view now, but i really need to sleep lol

Why thank you, I almost fell asleep writing it haha.

 

[Shadownub]

I agree with this very much. Although I don't think the whole server should revolve around money (Much like our own world does), I like the idea of jobs and such. I would also like for hunger to be able to kill (I mean really, it hits you for 1hp per second-ish? A lowlevel healer can survive just through healing with regenerating mana, and even then if you neglected it, it would only take you down to half hp.) I don't agree so much with more food being required to make yourself full, the current amount is pretty good as it is. IMO, if more food would be needed (Eg.- Melon and Raw Food = 1/2 hunger point, bread = 1 hunger point, cooked meat = 1 1/2 hunger point) to fill your food bar, then food should degenerate slower, so that you don't have to spend 90% of your time (And your inventory) carrying supplies.

Townships sorta serve as the trade zones for the areas away from Zeal IMO. If you go into a town, and the town is friendly, usually its cits will be more than happy to trade with you. The idea of companies and things are very hard to handle and we don't want to whole of HC to fall into a repeated "Go to work, come home, eat food, sleep, disconnect" cycle, so there still should be time for an 'employee' to enjoy. In a way each township is a company and some mayors do run their towns as such. One of my future town ideas for next season is to build a massive mall tower as a township - but the 'citizens' would essentially be 'staff' for the sake of security and making sure everything works smoothly, if not also to gather supplies and advertise overall.

Getting money for me when I was a newcomer was simple, you just needed to beg Brutal for some and he'd eventually give in

 

[Faunherer]

I agree with this very much. Although I don't think the whole server should revolve around money (Much like our own world does), I like the idea of jobs and such. I would also like for hunger to be able to kill (I mean really, it hits you for 1hp per second-ish? A lowlevel healer can survive just through healing with regenerating mana, and even then if you neglected it, it would only take you down to half hp.) I don't agree so much with more food being required to make yourself full, the current amount is pretty good as it is. IMO, if more food would be needed (Eg.- Melon and Raw Food = 1/2 hunger point, bread = 1 hunger point, cooked meat = 1 1/2 hunger point) to fill your food bar, then food should degenerate slower, so that you don't have to spend 90% of your time (And your inventory) carrying supplies.

I may have gone a bit over board with the economy idea, I can try to tone it down some though xD. The hunger system really gave food an opportunity to grow as an economic force, but the fact that the hunger system is... lacking in hardcoreness disappointed me. If the hunger system is made a bit more challenging, it would improve the value of food.

Townships sorta serve as the trade zones for the areas away from Zeal IMO.

Yes, they may be able to serve as trade zones, but most townships fail to create a player friendly market to trade at. Maybe if there was a couple of townships dedicated towards creating a large meeting place for players to trade at... Zeal is just too far for some people though.

The idea of companies and things are very hard to handle and we don't want to whole of HC to fall into a repeated "Go to work, come home, eat food, sleep, disconnect" cycle, so there still should be time for an 'employee' to enjoy. In a way each township is a company and some mayors do run their towns as such. One of my future town ideas for next season is to build a massive mall tower as a township - but the 'citizens' would essentially be 'staff' for the sake of security and making sure everything works smoothly, if not also to gather supplies and advertise overall.

Companies would not have to be something you necessarily have to work at every day. It could be like a guild with most people sometimes, a thing that is not the big picture but is still darned important. Like you could just pop in to a job and work for however long is specified and get your pay. The company system is not a new form of grinding, it is a new form of income.
Thanks for the constructive criticism, I really appreciate it, it helps build this idea into something better

 

[KrunknMunky]

In regard to your ideas for hunger and a food company, I would like to bring up an idea that was raised a while ago, but now with the addition of melons becomes a little more feasible. The idea was to allow quadrants of the map to have their own food source. So for example the people in the north quarter of the map could only grow wheat, people in the west only melons and in the South and East one of each of the types of mushrooms. I don't know whether this is possible coding-wise, but it seemed to be a very good idea to stimulate trade.

Another idea that just came to me is a similar principle applied to farming animals. As 1.9 comes out and breeding animals becomes the only way to create more, perhaps each quadrant could be assigned an animal, from cows, pigs, chicken and sheep. While this may put the sheep quadrant at a little of a disadvantage, everybody needs wool, and there are only so many alchemists, so they would have a valuable trade-able item in their possession, which would enable them to trade wool for food.

I know my ideas may need a little work, but im just putting them out there.

 

[Farroes]

Krunkn

That would be pretty unfair. 1 quadrant will be by far the best, wheat and wool would make more coins then melons and pork. Its a neat idea, I will give you that, but I just don't see it panning out.

 

[Kainzo]

In a pure economic system, money never leaves the economy it is only added. It is transferred between players in the economy to have a shift in the balance of money.

We are up for ideas on ways to have different drains/expenditures.

You can spend coin on;

• Tax
• Township Purchase
• Plot purchase
• Class Changes
• Specializations
• Player provided Ports/Travel
• Herogates
• Shops
• Bounties
• Lotto (coming back soon!)
• T4+ Region
• Services (Mason/Eng etc requested abilities)

You can earn coin by;

• Selling plots in townships
• Player sold port/abilities (track/port etc)
• Collecting bounties
• Slaying monsters
• Opening a shop
• Winning the lotto (soon!)
• ????

 

[Faunherer]

My ideas were ones to bring coin into the economy through DHX (a subsidy system) and to increases player-to-player trade.
Ways money enters the server currently.

• Selling to DHX (mining)
• Mob slaying (which is not a practical way of earning coin)
• Through blocks/items gained through events

Ways money exits the server currently.

• Taxes
• t4 regions
• Zeal plots
• Buying townships
• Upgrading townships
• Specializing
• Changing Classes
• Herogates

As you can see, there are more chances for money to leave the server currently than there are chances for it to enter.
Ways money CAN enter the server.

• Selling gold/iron to DHX
• Mob slaying (which I believe should have an increased coin drop rate)
• Through events
• The DHX subsidy program (through companies)
• ???

Ways money CAN shift through players.

• Basic trading of items
• Selling land
• Bounties
• Selling abilities/skills
• Payment through the company system

We just need to open up more ways for money to enter and leave the server (while keeping this flow balanced), increase the demands for many items, and increase the flow of money between players.

 

[Brutalacerate]

I agree with this very much. Although I don't think the whole server should revolve around money (Much like our own world does), I like the idea of jobs and such. I would also like for hunger to be able to kill (I mean really, it hits you for 1hp per second-ish? A lowlevel healer can survive just through healing with regenerating mana, and even then if you neglected it, it would only take you down to half hp.) I don't agree so much with more food being required to make yourself full, the current amount is pretty good as it is. IMO, if more food would be needed (Eg.- Melon and Raw Food = 1/2 hunger point, bread = 1 hunger point, cooked meat = 1 1/2 hunger point) to fill your food bar, then food should degenerate slower, so that you don't have to spend 90% of your time (And your inventory) carrying supplies.

Townships sorta serve as the trade zones for the areas away from Zeal IMO. If you go into a town, and the town is friendly, usually its cits will be more than happy to trade with you. The idea of companies and things are very hard to handle and we don't want to whole of HC to fall into a repeated "Go to work, come home, eat food, sleep, disconnect" cycle, so there still should be time for an 'employee' to enjoy. In a way each township is a company and some mayors do run their towns as such. One of my future town ideas for next season is to build a massive mall tower as a township - but the 'citizens' would essentially be 'staff' for the sake of security and making sure everything works smoothly, if not also to gather supplies and advertise overall.

Getting money for me when I was a newcomer was simple, you just needed to beg Brutal for some and he'd eventually give in

First map when I wasn't Staff? If so, holy shit that was a long time ago. Haha.

 

[Shadownub]

Nah, mid-Sanctum, you were mod, not admin. I think.

"can I have 10c for herogate??????????!!!!!"
"please!!!!!!!???????"
"need moneys!!!!!!"
*Brutalacerate has sent you 500c*
"<3333333"

Slight exaggeration, I suppose.

 

[Danda]

Sign Shops and the way that PVP in townships is atm has completely destroyed the way that trading worked. Last make Trade chat was highly active with people buying/selling items. You would get bartering for large amounts of materials for large scale build projects. These projects do not happen anymore because people don't see the point as they provide very little defense and for the most part people build sky to bedrock walls so no one can even get inside the towns.

Also as townships cost so much more money this time around Mayors don't have ass loads of coins lying around like they did last map. So this wrecks the economy as well because there is no longer any spare coins to buy resources and pay for workers because we need so much to upgrade townships and pay taxes.

Take me, Trin and Idk last map together we were the richest group on the server we had like 75k in total. We had the ability to just throw it at anything we felt was necessary. We paid like 500c an hour for people to work for us. We would buy multiple double chests of dirt cobble smooth stone etc and then pay extra for the people we bought it off to move it to us. Together we had enough money to fund an entire kingdom and still have money left over. Now it doesn't even come close and you are lucky to get paid 50c an hour for work (and provide your own resources/tools).

with actual shrinking in money that comes out of DHX and increasing the drain of current money you have created a void where it is far more difficult to acquire vast amounts of money to spend on anything other than a township.

I feel strongly that the Economy is something that needs to be discussed next meeting in GREAT detail.

tl;dr Large build projects have all but died thus lowering the need for vast amounts of resources and Sign shops have all but killed trade chat. Increased costs of townships have left people with no spare money to spend on resources/labor.

• Selling plots in townships

You're kidding right?

with most towns almost impenetrable, no child regions to stop people buying plots to obtain access to the town region to allow them access to every house and then the ability to break into the town to kill people that has to be the most stupid idea I have heard.
No offence Kain

The only plots you can realistically sell are Zeal plots

In a pure economic system, money never leaves the economy it is only added.

This statement is completely false @Kainzo Heroes is one way of money to be removed from the economy that is 500c removed from the economy every time specs or changes class, that is 50 gold ingots removed from the economy every time that happens. Someone pays for Kingdom that is 50k coins(more than the top 2 richest people combined have atm) removed from the economy. There are no server projects for this money to be returned into the economy so it just disappears. There are HUGE money sink holes in townships with a decrease in which money is injected into the economy from last map.

Last map however had too much money injected in with zero ways of removing it. That created a place where there was too much money. This time we are at the other end of the extreme.

TL;DR :
Our currency is helluva lot deflated.
The buying power of most Herocraft residents is LOW, which makes markets nearly useless.
Money is stuck in the elitist class (mayors technically) and does not flow fluidly (as we want it to).
The demand of food, labor, and many other products should be increased to create a stronger economy.
More money should be flowing in from outside sources (DHX) and more should be flowing out.
Towns/guilds can have one company (which decides the industry in that place pretty much).
Companies employ the 'working-class'.
There needs to be more areas to trade, that are accessible by more people, and that are more secure.

This happened naturally last map because there were ways of limiting what the workers had access to and also not having to worry about them being a scumbag killing you/letting their friends.

Ways money exits the server currently.

• Taxes
• t4 regions (T3s like me can't get them)
• Zeal plots
• Buying townships
• Upgrading townships
• Specializing
• Changing Classes
• Herogates (Donors don't have to pay)

For T1-3 there are 2 things less there to pour money into just saying

 

[agentjwall]

I don't think increasing the necessity of food would do much to the prices of food. If people had a greater need for food they would grow more of it themselves.

As for the Jobs/Labor System, Guilds already have this roll, its just underutilized. The demand is low since most people just do everything they need done themselves.

Instead of making designated shop areas I think towns should make their own markets where merchants can sell their goods (Alexandria is going to have one!). An alternative would be to make the trading post required for Towns a place where merchants can buy mini-plots to sell goods.

The real reason for the economy's state is that there are so many people competing in the market that prices are driven down. There's no deflation theirs just high supply and low demand. That will never change so I'm a little confused about what you think "Stimulating the economy" will do...

 

[agentjwall]

I also think we arent taking blocks out of the economy faster than they are going in.

Yah,
Blocks destroyed over time < Blocks added with map expansions

 

[jwplayer0]

Yah,
Blocks destroyed over time < Blocks added with map expansions

All i know is, in the past (previous maps and beggining of this one) , i could go mining for an hour and come out 200 to 500c richer. Now I go mining for an hour and come out -5 iron picks and out of food, wood (which i usually carry a stack of logs) and other various things. I may occasionally find about half a stack of iron but in the past month of playing and mining on average of 4 hours a week i've found 2 peices of gold.

I just think the server is too big in its current state with hundreds (maybe thousands) of unique users on a day.

 

[Danda]

All i know is, in the past (previous maps and beggining of this one) , i could go mining for an hour and come out 200 to 500c richer. Now I go mining for an hour and come out -5 iron picks and out of food, wood (which i usually carry a stack of logs) and other various things. I may occasionally find about half a stack of iron but in the past month of playing and mining on average of 4 hours a week i've found 2 peices of gold.

I just think the server is too big in its current state with hundreds (maybe thousands) of unique users on a day.

you're mining in the wrong places then
I have no issues mining

Also Ty to whoever combined my posts xD

 

[agentjwall]

you're mining in the wrong places then
I have no issues mining

Same here, You just need to know where to dig. Just the other day I found 29 diamonds and 18 gold in a half hour...

 

[jwplayer0]

hackers >.>....

 

[Zaspar]

hackers >.>....

Try level 15 if you want gold. Aaaaand mine in 1.8 (past 2600). Trust me, you'll get some good shit