Stimulating the Herocraft Economy

[jwplayer0]

Try level 15 if you want gold. Aaaaand mine in 1.8 (past 2600). Trust me, you'll get some good shit

i do =(

 

[Zaspar]

i do =(

Then you have a notorious amount of bad luck.

 

[Aerokii]

Try level 15 if you want gold. Aaaaand mine in 1.8 (past 2600). Trust me, you'll get some good shit

Just don't do so in the northlands. They're pretty well picked over.

 

[Symbolite]

Are you branch mining? That's how I mine and about an hour - or two's worth of work usually gets me around 1/2 stack of gold.

 

[Zaspar]

Just don't do so in the northlands. They're pretty well picked over.

I mine in the south... yeah, it's pretty unexplored

 

[Danda]

anyway guys stop de-railing the thread and get back on topic

 

[leftovers5]

I think this thread needs a revival. A bunch of these awesome ideas were proposed and nothing really was taken from it.

 

[Kainzo]

Holy necro batman

 

[j2gay]

I agree the server needs an economy. I also agree with much of what Danda said. especially as regards township costs. As far as chest shops go I think these have the potential to increase trade greatly. For the people who are clamoring that there should be jobs, there are, we just are not utilizing them effectively. The way to intertwine the economy is with class restrictions.
If we really want to see an active economy this is how you do it.
When players first start they can choose a Path and Crafter. They can make only stone tools or and no Armor. They can farm only melons, an ability they will loose if they chose a combat spec. For bread armor, tools, cooked meat they will need to use a chest shop setup by a specced crafter.

You cannot choose any spec until you master both crafter and your path. Then you must choose. If you spec crafter you cannot advance your combat skills beyond what they are as a mastered path and weapons are restricted to stone. If you spec combat you can never make tools above stone and lose all ability to harvest any food or gather materials.

Only Farmers can break wheat and sugar or slaughter animals. They can sell wheat, melons, seeds, raw meat in chest shops. they cannot sell bread or cooked meat nor can they cook meat or craft bread only merchants and smiths can. They are also the only class that can harvest Netherwort.

Miner is the only Crafter Spec that can break ore. This will require the benefits of all the professions to be available faster as well as some new avenues for experience, however it will also force more human interaction and exchange.

Merchant can craft chests and stone tools only. They can buy and sell everything and are the only class that can exchange gold for currency. They are also one of the two specs that can cook meat or make bread.

Smith can make and sell in shops all weapons armor and tools. They can cook meat and make bread but they cannot sell it in shops. Since they cannot mine they will need to purchase their material from Miners non specced crafters or merchants. Smiths and merchants are the only crafter specs that can cook ore.

Alchemists and enchanters do what they do now but since they cannot craft tools and weapons above stone, or gather potion ingredients they must purchase them from smiths or merchants. They can sell their respective items in chest shops.

Masons and Engineers do what they do and are the only specs that can place obsidian or rare blocks. If they need iron for something like pistons they will need to buy it from a smith or merchant.

Took me quite a bit of time to decide what to do about scribes. I say with the elimination of mining as a source of experience for crafter specs, let them produce and sell books that give experience. Along with what ever else they do now.

All chest shops should use physical gold as currency. (there are plugins that do this)
Bounties should be placed by towns or individuals by commissioning other certain individuals. This will encourage warrior types to have good relations with towns especially neutral towns as random people will not be able to collect them as is done now.

What this kind of interdependence will do.
First of all it will make the current oft complained of system where there is no repercussion for random violence more difficult. Players will be less apt to run random into a merchant type town if they may need to return at some point when in need of supplies. If they do they may likely have to give their spoils back at a later date as combat specs will be reliant on crafter specs for survival.
Large projects and roads will become more commonplace as well as friendly relations between towns, for trade will be more necessary. Open towns will likely return as the need for trade increases.
An economic system such as this will also eliminate the need of a Karma system. There will be little enough reward and plenty of risk to being a random townless thuggish vagrant. It will be far more beneficial for a combat spec to be part of a town and be perhaps be paid and supplied with equipment in return for serving in the guard.
It is far better I think to force people to be interdependent and to chose their role in the economy than any artificial constraints you might impose.
Before you respond I ask that you read and consider this fully.

 

[MajorasMask]

I agree the server needs an economy. I also agree with much of what Danda said. especially as regards township costs. As far as chest shops go I think these have the potential to increase trade greatly. For the people who are clamoring that there should be jobs, there are, we just are not utilizing them effectively. The way to intertwine the economy is with class restrictions.
If we really want to see an active economy this is how you do it.
When players first start they can choose a Path and Crafter. They can make only stone tools or and no Armor. They can farm only melons, an ability they will loose if they chose a combat spec. For bread armor, tools, cooked meat they will need to use a chest shop setup by a specced crafter.

You cannot choose any spec until you master both crafter and your path. Then you must choose. If you spec crafter you cannot advance your combat skills beyond what they are as a mastered path and weapons are restricted to stone. If you spec combat you can never make tools above stone and lose all ability to harvest any food or gather materials.

Only Farmers can break wheat and sugar or slaughter animals. They can sell wheat, melons, seeds, raw meat in chest shops. they cannot sell bread or cooked meat nor can they cook meat or craft bread only merchants and smiths can. They are also the only class that can harvest Netherwort.

Miner is the only Crafter Spec that can break ore. This will require the benefits of all the professions to be available faster as well as some new avenues for experience, however it will also force more human interaction and exchange.

Merchant can craft chests and stone tools only. They can buy and sell everything and are the only class that can exchange gold for currency. They are also one of the two specs that can cook meat or make bread.

Smith can make and sell in shops all weapons armor and tools. They can cook meat and make bread but they cannot sell it in shops. Since they cannot mine they will need to purchase their material from Miners non specced crafters or merchants. Smiths and merchants are the only crafter specs that can cook ore.

Alchemists and enchanters do what they do now but since they cannot craft tools and weapons above stone, or gather potion ingredients they must purchase them from smiths or merchants. They can sell their respective items in chest shops.

Masons and Engineers do what they do and are the only specs that can place obsidian or rare blocks. If they need iron for something like pistons they will need to buy it from a smith or merchant.

Took me quite a bit of time to decide what to do about scribes. I say with the elimination of mining as a source of experience for crafter specs, let them produce and sell books that give experience. Along with what ever else they do now.

All chest shops should use physical gold as currency. (there are plugins that do this)
Bounties should be placed by towns or individuals by commissioning other certain individuals. This will encourage warrior types to have good relations with towns especially neutral towns as random people will not be able to collect them as is done now.

What this kind of interdependence will do.
First of all it will make the current oft complained of system where there is no repercussion for random violence more difficult. Players will be less apt to run random into a merchant type town if they may need to return at some point when in need of supplies. If they do they may likely have to give their spoils back at a later date as combat specs will be reliant on crafter specs for survival.
Large projects and roads will become more commonplace as well as friendly relations between towns, for trade will be more necessary. Open towns will likely return as the need for trade increases.
An economic system such as this will also eliminate the need of a Karma system. There will be little enough reward and plenty of risk to being a random townless thuggish vagrant. It will be far more beneficial for a combat spec to be part of a town and be perhaps be paid and supplied with equipment in return for serving in the guard.
It is far better I think to force people to be interdependent and to chose their role in the economy than any artificial constraints you might impose.
Before you respond I ask that you read and consider this fully.

Yeah, like this isn't complicated at all?

Why restrict players EVEN MORE. If you wanted to make the economy more diverse, then you'd give chestshops to more people than just merchants. Give more people the ability to make a shop. Plus; demolish all inactive shops. They don't encourage the construction of new ones at all. The areas outside of spawn look like a mess.

 

[j2gay]

Yeah, like this isn't complicated at all?

Why restrict players EVEN MORE. If you wanted to make the economy more diverse, then you'd give chestshops to more people than just merchants. Give more people the ability to make a shop. Plus; demolish all inactive shops. They don't encourage the construction of new ones at all. The areas outside of spawn look like a mess.

Thats because as people can make pretty much everything they need there is no reason to use them. I am suggesting more people be able to make chest shops for their stuff, and use them for the stuff they need.

 

[MajorasMask]

Thats because as people can make pretty much everything they need there is no reason to use them. I am suggesting more people be able to make chest shops for their stuff, and use them for the stuff they need.

So you'll continue to restrict what people make just to ''stimulate'' the HC economy? Why do we even need an economy? Why not just let people do what they want? We already have enough going on. Need armour? You can buy it. Need enchanted pickaxes? You can buy it. Why put a price tag on something so insignificant as bread. I mean what is the point? It just wastes time.

''Miner is the only Crafter Spec that can break ore.''

Really? So if you don't have a miner to help you, you're fucked. You can't make armour, make better tools, or even make money (through selling gold).

 

[j2gay]

So you'll continue to restrict what people make just to ''stimulate'' the HC economy? Why do we even need an economy? Why not just let people do what they want? We already have enough going on. Need armour? You can buy it. Need enchanted pickaxes? You can buy it. Why put a price tag on something so insignificant as bread. I mean what is the point? It just wastes time.

''Miner is the only Crafter Spec that can break ore.''

Really? So if you don't have a miner to help you, you're fucked. You can't make armour, make better tools, or even make money (through selling gold).

That is what an economy is. You either have one or you don't. right now we don't which I am fine with. I do pretty well as is. You just made a complaint about the chest shops and them being ugly or empty. This is a suggestion thread about how to fix that as well as to create an actual economy. I have made a suggestion. Do you have one?

 

[MajorasMask]

That is what an economy is. You either have one or you don't. right now we don't which I am fine with. I do pretty well as is. You just made a complaint about the chest shops and them being ugly or empty. This is a suggestion thread about how to fix that as well as to create an actual economy. I have made a suggestion. Do you have one?

We can only come here to suggest stuff? We can't say ''No, that suggestion is stupid''?

And we do have an economy. People use /ch t all the time. People buy ports, armour, enchanted items, mason services, the whole lot. So what if they arn't buying BASIC stuff like bread, or sticks, or even bone meal. We still have an economy.

Now instead of ignoring what i've written, ranting on about ''Oh dear, you arn't suggesting stuff; get out'', why not respond? Go on, you know, because your suggestion is so perfect. -.-

 

[j2gay]

We can only come here to suggest stuff? We can't say ''No, that suggestion is stupid''?

And we do have an economy. People use /ch t all the time. People buy ports, armour, enchanted items, mason services, the whole lot. So what if they arn't buying BASIC stuff like bread, or sticks, or even bone meal. We still have an economy.

Now instead of ignoring what i've written, ranting on about ''Oh dear, you arn't suggesting stuff; get out'', why not respond? Go on, you know, because your suggestion is so perfect. -.-

I am ignoring what you have written because you obvious have not read or at least understood my suggestion. You also have not given any reason as to why you think it is stupid. What I asked is if you have a better idea or any idea. Do you make your own bread at home sir? No because we have a complex economy that requires people to specialize. Some people make their own food stuffs, but seldom in a capacity that would fully supplement survival. For the last few thousand years non tribal peoples have gone to the baker to buy bread and the blacksmith to buy weapons and so on. I am suggesting nothing different. What I have already said but will repeat for you is that I am fine with things as they are. IF the community decides that there needs to be an actually economy my suggestion would fully accomplish that as well as eliminating some of the other complaints people have about the current status quo. Now if you would like to point out flaws in,or ways to improve my idea or others found in this thread. Then perhaps we can have a rational conversation. If you want to simply say "Your idea is stupid" I suggest you go back and read it again with a little more effort. Your own objections illustrate that you have not understood what I was saying.

 

[MajorasMask]

I am ignoring what you have written because you obvious have not read or at least understood my suggestion. Actually, I have, and I do understand it. And if I have not understood it, then explain it better. You also have not given any reason as to why you think it is stupid. I did. -.- I've said you're restricting players far too much. What I asked is if you have a better idea or any idea. My idea; keep things how they are. Do you make your own bread at home sir? No because we have a complex economy that requires people to specialize. This is HC, not real life. When you get to a point in which you restrict the player in making BASIC stuff, then you've got yourself a stupid system, as nobody is going to want to play that. Some people make their own food stuffs, but seldom in a capacity other that would fully supplement survival. For the last few thousand years non tribal peoples have gone to the baker to buy bread and the blacksmith to buy weapons and so on. This is HC, not real life. I am suggesting nothing different. Why not make HC more like real life; boring, time consuming and dull. Infact, lets make it so that trees take a year to grow, that you're banned when you die, and that mining takes 2 minutes per block. What I have already said but will repeat for you is that I am fine with things as they are. IF the community decides that there needs to be an actually economy my suggestion would fully accomplish that as well as eliminating some of the other complaints people have about the current status quo. Now if you would like to point out flaws in,or ways to improve my idea or others found in this thread. Then perhaps we can have a rational conversation. If you want to simply say "Your idea is stupid" I suggest you go back and read it again with a little more effort. Your own objections illustrate that you have not understood what I was saying.

There is no way to ''improve'' a suggestion if the fundamental basics of it just won't work. Let's take this one:

''Miner is the only Crafter Spec that can break ore.'' How the hell do you expect people to make money then? They can't even mine ore? What about gold, they NEED that to make money.

The whole system revolves around money. If you have none, you're stuffed. It's far too restrictive.

Oh; and if I ''don't understand'' your suggestion; then explain it better.

 

[awsumguy75321]

I am ignoring what you have written because you obvious have not read or at least understood my suggestion. You also have not given any reason as to why you think it is stupid. What I asked is if you have a better idea or any idea. Do you make your own bread at home sir? No because we have a complex economy that requires people to specialize. Some people make their own food stuffs, but seldom in a capacity that would fully supplement survival. For the last few thousand years non tribal peoples have gone to the baker to buy bread and the blacksmith to buy weapons and so on. I am suggesting nothing different. What I have already said but will repeat for you is that I am fine with things as they are. IF the community decides that there needs to be an actually economy my suggestion would fully accomplish that as well as eliminating some of the other complaints people have about the current status quo. Now if you would like to point out flaws in,or ways to improve my idea or others found in this thread. Then perhaps we can have a rational conversation. If you want to simply say "Your idea is stupid" I suggest you go back and read it again with a little more effort. Your own objections illustrate that you have not understood what I was saying.

This is off topic, but yes, I do grow wheat and make bread in my backyard and I have made war axes-not bought, made- that are hanging on my wall.

 

[j2gay]

There is no way to ''improve'' a suggestion if the fundamental basics of it just won't work. Let's take this one:

''Miner is the only Crafter Spec that can break ore.'' How the hell do you expect people to make money then? They can't even mine ore? What about gold, they NEED that to make money.

The whole system revolves around money. If you have none, you're stuffed. It's far too restrictive.

Oh; and if I ''don't understand'' your suggestion; then explain it better.

This again proves that you do not understand it. I have said that Miner is the only Spec that can break ores. Basic crafters can mine as well. The other classes would need to participate in the economy by buying and selling things.
Gold may become more difficult to obtain, however as with any currency real or imagined, the less there is the more its worth.
Restricting basic necessities is the basis of any economic system. The more chances you give people to opt out of the system the more likely it is that they will, and then the system will fail. Furthermore by intertwining people in such a way you create balance. As each one is dependent upon the other intrinsically.
I did leave out the idea that by choosing neither crafter nor combat spec you could as you said "do your own thing" just fine. I was hoping people would add that themselves. I have tried to lay out the basic format as simply as possible, as spelling out the intricacies of any economic system makes it increasingly difficult to understand.
Your idea is to keep things as is. As I have stated several times now I AM FINE WITH THAT. My suggestion relates to what would work as an economy if the community decides one is needed. The current status quo is not an economic system it is basically laissez faire with a few restrictions here and there some that make sense and some that do not.. As an objectivist I am a fan of this. My true preference would be to see NO restrictions what so ever.
Still this thread proposes the need for an economic system. If one is implemented that does not restrict and intertwine people it will be a disaster.
Regarding your slippery slope arguments, as well as the other Ideas of your own mocking design, that you have attempted to interject into my own. Please do not cheapen yourself. Such tactics are below your usual decorum.

 

[j2gay]

This is off topic, but yes, I do grow wheat and make bread in my backyard and I have made war axes-not bought, made- that are hanging on my wall.

As do I. However unless you were born in some remote area. You still need a job to purchase most things

 

[MajorasMask]

This again proves that you do not understand it. I have said that Miner is the only Spec that can break ores. Basic crafters can mine as well. The other classes would need to participate in the economy by buying and selling things.
Gold may become more difficult to obtain, however as with any currency real or imagined, the less there is the more its worth.
Restricting basic necessities is the basis of any economic system. The more chances you give people to opt out of the system the more likely it is that they will, and then the system will fail. Furthermore by intertwining people in such a way you create balance. As each one is dependent upon the other intrinsically.
I did leave out the idea that by choosing neither crafter nor combat spec you could as you said "do your own thing just fine. I was hoping people would add that themselves. I have tried to lay out the basic format as simply as possible, as spelling out he intricacies of any economic system makes it increasingly difficult to understand.
Your idea is to keep things as is. As I have stated several times now I AM FINE WITH THAT. My suggestion relates to what would work as an economy if the community decides one is needed. The current status quo is not an economic system it is basically laissez faire with a few restrictions here and there some that make sense and some that do not.. As an objectivist I am a fan of this. My true preference would be to see NO restrictions what so ever.
Still this thread proposes the need for an economic system. If one is implemented that does not restrict and intertwine people it will be a disaster.
Regarding your slippery slope arguments, as well as the other Ideas of your own mocking design, that you have attempted to interject into my own. Please do not cheapen yourself. Such tactics are below your usual decorum.

This thread was created two years ago. There is no longer a ''need'' for some fancy economic system. People have what they want, now they want to build/pvp. This is what needs to be worked on. The current ''economy'' is fine. It works, and there are no issues. And if the community ever were to ''demand'' a ''new economic system'', why go for yours anyway? Yours isn't perfect. It sounds like it would work IRL well; but this is MC, not IRL.

You're also suggesting something that isn't needed. It wouldn't make building any better (chances are you won't be able to place/aquire the blocks you want) and it won't make PvP any better (it would take far long to get items, which would delay/put people off PvP).