Stimulating the Herocraft Economy

[j2gay]

I think this thread needs a revival. A bunch of these awesome ideas were proposed and nothing really was taken from it.

Holy necro batman

This thread was created two years ago. There is no longer a ''need'' for some fancy economic system. People have what they want, now they want to build/pvp. This is what needs to be worked on. The current ''economy'' is fine. It works, and there are no issues. And if the community ever were to ''demand'' a ''new economic system'', why go for yours anyway? Yours isn't perfect. It sounds like it would work IRL well; but this is MC, not IRL.

You're also suggesting something that isn't needed. It wouldn't make building any better (chances are you won't be able to place/aquire the blocks you want) and it won't make PvP any better (it would take far long to get items, which would delay/put people off PvP).

Sunday was not two years ago.

 

[MajorasMask]

Sunday was not two years ago.

There was no reason for it to be revived in the first place.

 

[j2gay]

MajorasMask leftovers5 suggested that this thread needed a revival. It is revived.
The current system does need work as you say. Perhaps now it shall receive it.
As for the system we were formerly discussing it does work in real life, and has for many years now. I have also seen it work in MC quite well. As well as seeing it fail miserably when ill managed.

 

[MajorasMask]

MajorasMask leftovers5 suggested that this thread needed a revival. It is revived.
The current system does need work as you say. Perhaps now it shall receive it.
As for the system we were formerly discussing it does work in real life, and has for many years now. I have also seen it work in MC quite well. As well as seeing it fail miserably when ill managed.

The current system does not need work. It's working fine, and has been like this for a while. There is no need to make more pointless adjustments.

 

[j2gay]

The current system does not need work. It's working fine, and has been like this for a while. There is no need to make more pointless adjustments.

That is for others to decide. Our work is done here. Thank you for the stimulating conversation. It was most enjoyable.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

What j2gay suggested would make people need others to do something. In my opinion, that would make trading needed, and it should boost economy a bit. Currently, what people do is choose a combat class they like, then choose a profession class that lets you easily get the items you need to use in the combat class. Example, if a person chooses Samurai as his combat class, then the person would naturally choose Smith as profession, and then just get everything he needs easily, which would leave the person not in need of anything else and would make it so he wont necessarily need to trade anything. Now, if j2gay's suggesting was somehow implemented, those who choose to become a combat specialization instead of profession specialization, would need to either join a town to be supplied with necessary items for combat, and in return would protect the town. That way, towns could also need all kinds of professions to run better, be able to supply soldiers with their gear so the town can be safe and it would require activity to keep a town alive. Currently, with towns its just few people who mine their own gear without need of others and put money to bank without any work. The suggestion might also increase the value of items made by professions, and it would give those people other ways of getting money than endless look for gold. It would restrict a lot, but would need use of economy for a person to be able to do things, and it would boost economy, which seems to be this thread's purpose.

 

[MajorasMask]

What j2gay suggested would make people need others to do something. In my opinion, that would make trading needed, and it should boost economy a bit. Currently, what people do is choose a combat class they like, then choose a profession class that lets you easily get the items you need to use in the combat class. Example, if a person chooses Samurai as his combat class, then the person would naturally choose Smith as profession, and then just get everything he needs easily, which would leave the person not in need of anything else and would make it so he wont necessarily need to trade anything. Now, if j2gay's suggesting was somehow implemented, those who choose to become a combat specialization instead of profession specialization, would need to either join a town to be supplied with necessary items for combat, and in return would protect the town. That way, towns could also need all kinds of professions to run better, be able to supply soldiers with their gear so the town can be safe and it would require activity to keep a town alive. Currently, with towns its just few people who mine their own gear without need of others and put money to bank without any work. The suggestion might also increase the value of items made by professions, and it would give those people other ways of getting money than endless look for gold. It would restrict a lot, but would need use of economy for a person to be able to do things, and it would boost economy, which seems to be this thread's purpose.

How do we know that would actually work? In theory, everything should work. Why risk something for an unnecessary reason? The current system is fine. People communicate with eachother a LOT more than they did in Zeal/Sanctum (when there was no heroes plug-in to restrict what people do), so I don't see why you're bothered about the current situation. The economy has always made up a small portion of what HC is about, why change this now?

 

[j2gay]

What j2gay suggested would make people need others to do something. In my opinion, that would make trading needed, and it should boost economy a bit. Currently, what people do is choose a combat class they like, then choose a profession class that lets you easily get the items you need to use in the combat class. Example, if a person chooses Samurai as his combat class, then the person would naturally choose Smith as profession, and then just get everything he needs easily, which would leave the person not in need of anything else and would make it so he wont necessarily need to trade anything. Now, if j2gay's suggesting was somehow implemented, those who choose to become a combat specialization instead of profession specialization, would need to either join a town to be supplied with necessary items for combat, and in return would protect the town. That way, towns could also need all kinds of professions to run better, be able to supply soldiers with their gear so the town can be safe and it would require activity to keep a town alive. Currently, with towns its just few people who mine their own gear without need of others and put money to bank without any work. The suggestion might also increase the value of items made by professions, and it would give those people other ways of getting money than endless look for gold. It would restrict a lot, but would need use of economy for a person to be able to do things, and it would boost economy, which seems to be this thread's purpose.

I am glad to see you have understood my post. As A Samurai Smith I must say you are entirely correct in asserting that trade is entirely unnecessary.

 

[MajorasMask]

I am glad to see you have understood my post. As A Samurai Smith I must say you are entirely correct in asserting that trade is entirely unnecessary.

I really don't see how this is an issue. Plenty of people need to trade with eachother, who cares if some don't? It's their choice.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

How do we know that would actually work? In theory, everything should work. Why risk something for an unnecessary reason? The current system is fine. People communicate with eachother a LOT more than they did in Zeal/Sanctum (when there was no heroes plug-in to restrict what people do), so I don't see why you're bothered about the current situation. The economy has always made up a small portion of what HC is about, why change this now?

The purpose of this thread is to suggest ideas for how to boost economy. What is happening is that j2gay is giving his ideas to see what people would think and if it would be possible to implement, whereas you are just bashing his ideas without understanding them.

 

[MajorasMask]

The purpose of this thread is to suggest ideas for how to boost economy. What is happening is that j2gay is giving his ideas to see what people would think and if it would be possible to implement, whereas you are just bashing his ideas without understanding them.

I'll repeat myself:

This thread was made TWO YEARS AGO. There is NO NEED for any chances to the HC Economy at this moment in time. It works, it's fine. There are no major issues.

All these suggestions are POINTLESS. I do understand his ideas, but they ARN'T NEEDED. This is what i've been trying to say, jesus. There is no point us working together with an idea that by all means won't do any good. Thus, why bother ''suggesting ways to boost the economy'' when it doesn't have to be done? -.-

 

[MultiHeartGold]

I'll repeat myself:

This thread was made TWO YEARS AGO. There is NO NEED for any chances to the HC Economy at this moment in time. It works, it's fine. There are no major issues.

All these suggestions are POINTLESS. I do understand his ideas, but they ARN'T NEEDED. This is what i've been trying to say, jesus. There is no point us working together with an idea that by all means won't do any good. Thus, why bother ''suggesting ways to boost the economy'' when it doesn't have to be done? -.-

If you think it doesnt need to be done, you dont have to be here complaining about the ideas. You can simply ignore the thread.

 

[MajorasMask]

If you think it doesnt need to be done, you dont have to be here complaining about the ideas. You can simply ignore the thread.

The word ''Suggestions'' doesn't translate to:

''Suggest whatever the fuck you want, and remember: if anyone says anything against it, tell them to get lost, they arn't wanted here''.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

The word ''Suggestions'' doesn't translate to:

''Suggest whatever the fuck you want, and remember: if anyone says anything against it, tell them to get lost, they arn't wanted here''.

The word "Suggestions" doesnt translate to "Bash all the ideas because you dont give a fuck" either. If you dont like the ideas, give constructive feedback on how to improve them, or simply leave and ignore.

 

[MajorasMask]

The word "Suggestions" doesnt translate to "Bash all the ideas because you dont give a fuck" either. If you dont like the ideas, give constructive feedback on how to improve them, or simply leave and ignore.

Ok then, if you really wanted to ''boost the economy'', then you'd do so in a simple way. There is no need for all these fancy and complicating ''suggestions'' which may/may not actually work. Here are a few things which may encourage trading:

- Lower the price of chestshops from 50c each to 25c.
- Open up a non-pvp trade district, or, allow people to make shops in their noble plots.
- Demolish unused/inactive chestshops, which clutter the available space outside of spawn and discourage active trading.
- Stop introducing new worlds, such as Forgelight. They decrease the need to shop for iron/diamond/mossy cobblestone by giving people an abundance of the item.

The suggestions above arn't anything extreme. They're really basic, and they don't restrict the playerbase at all (very few changes would be made to professions/specifications, if any). They also don't require much work to be introduced, and, if they were to ever fail, they can be removed without too much hastle.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

Ok then, if you really wanted to ''boost the economy'', then you'd do so in a simple way. There is no need for all these fancy and complicating ''suggestions'' which may/may not actually work. Here are a few things which may encourage trading:

- Lower the price of chestshops from 50c each to 25c.
- Open up a non-pvp trade district, or, allow people to make shops in their noble plots.
- Demolish unused/inactive chestshops, which clutter the available space outside of spawn and discourage active trading.
- Stop introducing new worlds, such as Forgelight. They decrease the need to shop for iron/diamond/mossy cobblestone by giving people an abundance of the item.

The suggestions above arn't anything extreme. They're really basic, and they don't restrict the playerbase at all (very few changes would be made to professions/specifications, if any). They also don't require much work to be introduced, and, if they were to ever fail, they can be removed without too much hastle.

Just because there are more chestshops in a better place doesnt mean economy will be boosted. People can send items in Trade chat for better advertisement and easier selling. People can also use Trade forums where anyone can see it and buy if they NEED it. The thing here is the NEEDING. If a player can just easily get everything, why would player trade to get more items if there is an easier way? The idea of restricting things might not be easy to implement or necessary, but if economy needs to be boosted, its a good way to do so.

 

[Favith]

I hear stories about an older map where one had to choose between crafter or combat spec. I would have liked to have been here for that map.

For those who were here:

Were crafters as valuable as one might expect them to be? Was the economy more robust on that map than the one we have now?

Like MajorasMask pointed out you can't walk 1 block out of the protected region of spawn without hitting 3 chest shops. They line the area immediately out of the protected zone like a 2nd wall. 80% of them (I'd guess) are empty. Much of the empty ones haven't had stock in WEEKS if not more. The worst part---most of them are not even selling things people actually want/need. Was this a problem back when people played nothing but a crafter spec? I can't imagine it was, at least not on the scale it is on Bastion.

The problem boils down to this: What town doesn't have a Smith? An Enchanter or two? A Farmer? Few, if any, towns don't have all the crafting bases covered at this point. Why? Because every Samurai, Bard and Wizard can also be a Farmer, Smith and Enchanter. Not only that, people like me can switch between multiple crafting professions on a whim (500g is laughable in a game where getting 2k is a matter of a few hours work and some people are sitting on 20K+ at this point).

I know it's been said we'll never go back to the days of having to choose between crafter or combat spec. I know that letting everyone enjoy all aspects of the game is what the admin team is aiming for and, truthfully, it's an admirable goal. That said, by allowing people to be "everything" we've heavily decreased the value of being "anything" and handicapped the notion of an "economy" from the very start.

 

[MajorasMask]

Just because there are more chestshops in a better place doesnt mean economy will be boosted. Actually, that's what happened with the TD in Dragongarde.

People can send items in Trade chat for better advertisement and easier selling. It's more convinient for people to have shops (people can buy stuff when they arn't around). They usually advertise their shops in /ch t. People can also use Trade forums where anyone can see it and buy if they NEED it. Again; they can advertise here too. This is what people used to do.

The thing here is the NEEDING. If a player can just easily get everything, why would player trade to get more items if there is an easier way? Players can't just ''get'' whatever they want. Those who can have probably been sucessful in getting the items in the first place (maybe they have a lot of armour/potions because they're good at PvP/raiding, should we punish them for this?).

The idea of restricting things might not be easy to implement or necessary, but if economy needs to be boosted, its a good way to do so. Yeah but it won't make the game fun, would it? It'll just make it a hastle, forcing the player to spend more time doing things to reach the same conclusion, IE, a waste.

 

[j2gay]

Ok then, if you really wanted to ''boost the economy'', then you'd do so in a simple way. There is no need for all these fancy and complicating ''suggestions'' which may/may not actually work. Here are a few things which may encourage trading:

- Lower the price of chestshops from 50c each to 25c.
- Open up a non-pvp trade district, or, allow people to make shops in their noble plots.
- Demolish unused/inactive chestshops, which clutter the available space outside of spawn and discourage active trading.
- Stop introducing new worlds, such as Forgelight. They decrease the need to shop for iron/diamond/mossy cobblestone by giving people an abundance of the item.

The suggestions above arn't anything extreme. They're really basic, and they don't restrict the playerbase at all (very few changes would be made to professions/specifications, if any). They also don't require much work to be introduced, and, if they were to ever fail, they can be removed without too much hastle.

I can agree with the idea of an no-pvp trade district. However you keep pointing out the need to remove the inactive and empty chest shops. Have you considered why they are empty or inactive?
They are inactive because there is no need to use them. The average player can gather and craft everything they need town or not. If they are in a town it becomes even easier. As it stands you could eliminate chest shops entirely and most players would not notice a difference. People set them up and it takes forever to sell anything. So they get discouraged and neglect them.
If for instance only an enchanter or merchant could craft a bookshelf, anyone that wanted a bookshelf to decorate their home would need to buy it. Thus stimulating an economy.

 

[MajorasMask]

I can agree with the idea of an no-pvp trade district. However you keep pointing out the need to remove the inactive and empty chest shops. Have you considered why they are empty or inactive?
They are inactive because there is no need to use them. The average player can gather and craft everything they need town or not. If they are in a town it becomes even easier. As it stands you could eliminate chest shops entirely and most players would not notice a difference. People set them up and it takes forever to sell anything. So they get discouraged and neglect them.
If for instance only an enchanter or merchant could craft a bookshelf, anyone that wanted a bookshelf to decorate their home would need to buy it. Thus stimulating an economy.

The inactive shops i'm talking about are those of redstone shops. There are at least 5 around each graveyard which have not been used in at least a month.

Also; swarm behavoir. If there was a location for anyone to make a shop (like a trade district) then people would be both encouraged to shop/build more shops there. At the moment, shops are located all over the place. It is difficult to ''go shopping'' when nobody really knows WHERE to shop. A trade district would encourage people to make shops, much like how it was in Dragongarde. That place was awesome; you literally could find anything there. As a builder, this helped me out a lot.

Trading has developed far from simply ''selling x amount of y!''. Players, as a whole, have moved on. Trading now takes the form of selling ports, mason/engineer services, farm animals, villagers, ect ect. I see no real reason to go back to a system that we just don't need anymore. Trading, such as ''Selling x of y'', still goes on. Not as much as it used to. We can encourage this, through what i've suggested, but force it? No. That would destroy the feel of it. It would make the game feel more like a chore than anything. It would also force people into situations whereas they struggle to get things done.