Suggestion [Staff] Return Items in Region Abuse

[xexorian]

This has always been a problem for my town and towns in my kingdom in the last 2 maps. I need both hands to count how many times I've seen a town wiped clean of items due to a random griefer who uses region abuse. Poor Nevermore last map owned by xexorian probably got ransacked 5 or 6 times?

This is a huge reoccurring problem that needs a fix. Like most my first thoughts are just roll back the area / items but then there is that possibility of duping and that is why Staff don't reimburse even for incident's like these.

You know what map this never happened on? Sanctum. Why? because a mayor was simply able to region every single individual players house in the town so only 2 people could ever access a players house. The citizen who owns it and the mayor. With the introduction of HeroTown's this feature is no longer present but I'm holding onto hope that this tool could be implemented into the plugin sometime soon. It would stop a lot of small and large problems for towns and staff before they even happen.

This is true. Unfortunately I was never a mayor of a town in sanctum and only a SiC, so I was able to help assign sub regions to people near the end. (KUMO)

We desperately need this feature re-implemented, to be honest,

a) have a single staff member dedicated to gathering all township taxes (old banker staff positions, remember? xanipher came up with this idea. I did this for a few months before being demoted.)
b) reimburse hundreds of thousands, to literally millions of items that my township lost multiple times it was griefed, MANUALLY!?!?! Answer = FUCK THAT.

option B = takes several days of hardcore item spawning/checking
option A = drop HTTP, add back in a DHX banker staff position, collect 'rent' from all the townships manually, and set back up old school regions with child regions and perms and such. It was easy and made managing townships MUCH easier.

Primarily because we would eliminate a HUGE, BLATANTLY OBVIOUS, FLAW in admin logging.

When you break a chest, it's contents are forever lost and the items on the ground if they are not collected, go poof.

Nevermore was griefed 5 times this way, and I, alone lost over 85 double chests SLAM full of important items, stacks of mob drops, iron, diamond, lapis, gold, farmed items, etc. I must've had 5-6 double chests of each farmable item type, I made it a point to spend weeks and months collecting stuff for kingdom. After that, we were griefed this way many more times, but our blows were lessened, I bought EVERYONE LWC's and spent over 400,000 to 500,000 coins on that, speccing people, multiple townships, and kingdom. I even paid for LWC's in Newerth.

PS. This ^ does not include 45+ double chest of ironee and dielan's stuff, and ALL of the citizens stuff we had at the time, which was another 200-300 double chests collectively magically "gone".

My point being this is absolutely ridiculous it's still happening and something needs to be done about it. RIGHT NOW.

 

[Kainzo]

This is true. Unfortunately I was never a mayor of a town in sanctum and only a SiC, so I was able to help assign sub regions to people near the end. (KUMO)

Nothing will be happening "right now" - its a work in progress and always will be. Stop using dirt to cover valuables and use LWC's.

Coders
I'm going to be planning a complete -revamp of our protection systems at some point. Right now though, I highly suggest you not rely on dirt to protect your gold.

 

[archceaser]

Nothing will be happening "right now" - its a work in progress and always will be. Stop using dirt to cover valuables and use LWC's.

Coders
I'm going to be planning a complete -revamp of our protection systems at some point. Right now though, I highly suggest you not rely on dirt to protect your gold.

I think the problem is that we need more than one or two lwc's to protect all our hard earned items not just rare ores, perhaps a discount of lwc prices for a set period of time could help out?

 

[Angyles]

I think the problem is that we need more than one or two lwc's to protect all our hard earned items not just rare ores, perhaps a discount of lwc prices for a set period of time could help out?

Supporters already have discounted LWCs. If you are going to give out discounts to everyone, you would need to adjust the amounts the supporters pay at the same time.

 

[what777]

I need more LWCs to be able to protect all my stuff, I suggest increasing the cap for everyone by 2x. So t8=40 chests.

 

[archceaser]

Supporters already have discounted LWCs. If you are going to give out discounts to everyone, you would need to adjust the amounts the supporters pay at the same time.

Good catch i forgot about donor discounts for a moment, a simple 25 percent discount across the board for a set amount of time would make it fair!

 

[Kainzo]

This is true. Unfortunately I was never a mayor of a town in sanctum and only a SiC, so I was able to help assign sub regions to people near the end. (KUMO)

We desperately need this feature re-implemented, to be honest,

a) have a single staff member dedicated to gathering all township taxes (old banker staff positions, remember? xanipher came up with this idea. I did this for a few months before being demoted.)
b) reimburse hundreds of thousands, to literally millions of items that my township lost multiple times it was griefed, MANUALLY!?!?! Answer = FUCK THAT.

option B = takes several days of hardcore item spawning/checking
option A = drop HTTP, add back in a DHX banker staff position, collect 'rent' from all the townships manually, and set back up old school regions with child regions and perms and such. It was easy and made managing townships MUCH easier.

Primarily because we would eliminate a HUGE, BLATANTLY OBVIOUS, FLAW in admin logging.

When you break a chest, it's contents are forever lost and the items on the ground if they are not collected, go poof.

Nevermore was griefed 5 times this way, and I, alone lost over 85 double chests SLAM full of important items, stacks of mob drops, iron, diamond, lapis, gold, farmed items, etc. I must've had 5-6 double chests of each farmable item type, I made it a point to spend weeks and months collecting stuff for kingdom. After that, we were griefed this way many more times, but our blows were lessened, I bought EVERYONE LWC's and spent over 400,000 to 500,000 coins on that, speccing people, multiple townships, and kingdom. I even paid for LWC's in Newerth.

PS. This ^ does not include 45+ double chest of ironee and dielan's stuff, and ALL of the citizens stuff we had at the time, which was another 200-300 double chests collectively magically "gone".

My point being this is absolutely ridiculous it's still happening and something needs to be done about it. RIGHT NOW.

I need more LWCs to be able to protect all my stuff, I suggest increasing the cap for everyone by 2x. So t8=40 chests.

You need more than 20 LWCs ?~?~?!

 

[what777]

You need more than 20 LWCs ?~?~?!

Yeah if I gotta LWC all my stuff I sure do! Got 18/20 in use atm and only the really important stuff is LWCed (think Diamonds, Gold etc)

 

[archceaser]

Yeah if I gotta LWC all my stuff I sure do! Got 18/20 in use atm and only the really important stuff is LWCed (think Diamonds, Gold etc)

Yea saw that picture of your vault lol

 

[itemten]

EDIT: Just saw Dragonzero's post on the first page of this thread. Props for mentioning it first!

Why not just give town mayors the ability to setup a vault via the same methodology as personal residences (this may be what people are referring to as personal vaults)? Every town at their founding gets one protected region. If deemed allowable, it could be able to grow with the town in a similar manner to personal residences except that you wouldn't be allowed to have multiple vaults. By using the residence mod the sub-region commands are accessible and can be used by town mayors to allow trusted town members access to portions of the vault. Several people in this thread have posted something similar and this seems the best way to go.

No need for additional LWC's or Banker positions. Think of it as each town having a base level of security in the form of a small members-only residence. The majority of the town is still available to raid as its inevitable that most members won't put/can't afford LWC's on all their chests/won't cover them and that the town imbecile of the day will leave passageways uncovered. Mayor's do not have to allow any citizens into the town vault and I expect that the vast majority of mayors would only allow a select few to have access to sub-regions within the vault. This prevents the vault from being used as a safe-zone by the majority of the town.

That said the system would need to be monitored to make sure that no town:

1) Places the vault/residence in such a way that a portion of the town can't be accessed save through the vault.
This would create huge safe havens and that's not in-line with the whole hardcore server ideology. A vault is not an impenetrable gateway into your town.

2) Makes the vault inaccessible to most people.
The system should be setup so that anyone should be able to walk up to the entrance but that not everyone is allowed inside. Hidden doors and gates would be acceptable as they are canon to the server (so XxBruceWaynexX can use bookcases to hide the secret entrance to the Batcave in his manor). The entrance does not have to be obvious but it has to be accessible.

3) Exploits the residence as a safe zone.
Vaults are intended to be used by mayors and a select few of the townsfolk. We can check the permissions list for the vault to see if a town of 20 people has 20 people allowed to access its vault. Of course, this would be self-defeating most of the time as allowing all your citizens to access your vault would inevitably lead to having at least one of your own citizens robbing you of everything of value to them in your stash.

All of this can be easily checked by admins/mods to make sure that the vault/residence is set up correctly. If a town knowingly abuses the residence system (meaning they've been warned and didn't listen) then I say the fitting punishment is to remove the residence and make a server message that says "These guys abused the vault system...now it's time to abuse their vault! Free stuff at pos XYZ!" and have the message pop up every thirty minutes or so for a full day.

 

[MajorasMask]

Nothing will be happening "right now" - its a work in progress and always will be. Stop using dirt to cover valuables and use LWC's.

I only have 3 LWCs. This is not enough to protect all my items.

 

[xexorian]

You need more than 20 LWCs ?~?~?!

Haha, didn't think you'd read my post! Thank you!

I need more than 17* LWC's.

The main reason I need more is because of the fact that I'm

a) King of a Kingdom, or about to be
b) Mayor of a township that has 250 people (most are inactive, but come back every month or two)
c) Actively playing minecraft..

My Story
Each day I log in, I am building or going through entire double chests of stuff trying to get things done. Today for example in just the past few hours I went through perhaps two or three double chests of Stone. This was for just one pylon I had to build in preparation of kingdom. Last night I went through many, many stacks of logs and redstone building a house.

Usable Items VS. Storing Blocks
I, unlike others, like to maintain a low stock of actual "Diamond" and "Gold" ignots, ore, blocks, etc. I usually sell off my 'gold' immediately and only keep maybe a stack of diamonds available. Everything else was made and forged into items and armor and enchanted so I can easily pick them back up and go when I recall or die and recall. Which happens quite often. (Everytime I'm online, almost.)

Usually what I carry in my LWC's looks something like a chest full of food materials and tools, because I cannot sell it and do not have a merchant friend who is tedius enough and insane enough to keep track of all my shit to sell it for me. So, what I usually do is just give it away to citizens to help them specialize and promote the growth of their character and the servers. I even buy their LWC's and pay for their Specs.

Conclusion
So, in conclusion my point here is that not everyone stores just rare blocks, and there could strike a balance between tools on hand and rare stuff to store it properly, but when people are actively playing and doing a lot, just a few chests won't protect your stuff. It becomes tedius to protect a chest full of cobble just so you can build a structure one stack at a time because you're being camped by people. This is an example, and well merited, if you've seen how pvp goes, this is the commonplace for most noobies. Sometimes myself, and my townies as well when there's not many of us on and we're out numbered.

Obviously each person here has their own reasons and ideas and stories as to why this given situation is a problem. Mine is that it is simply not enough, and we have been attacked too many times by griefers who 'pop' chests to let the items despawn.

 

[Nightroado]

Just stepping in here, if it is the same instance I am thinking of, how do you know they were not perma banned? =]

If it is the jokers who train-wrecked Rapture, then I assume they were perma banned. If they had just destroyed Rapture, I was expecting some ridiculously small punishment actually. But when they made it personal with that pic of your head, I knew it would be bumped to permanent.

Read this thread since I was tagged a couple times in it. I was pretty close to leaving HC for the next map already. They simply sealed it for me. After we got Kingdom, I found no output left for all my time and energy. Was gonna set up chest shops and starting working on the money to get Rapture upgraded, but then that happened and I was 'meh.'

 

[Angyles]

If it is the jokers who train-wrecked Rapture, then I assume they were perma banned. If they had just destroyed Rapture, I was expecting some ridiculously small punishment actually. But when they made it personal with that pic of your head, I knew it would be bumped to permanent.

Actually no, it was bumped to perma PRIOR to the picture of my head, so I would appreciate if you do not make accusations prior to knowing the truth.

The original petition it was not perma, as it was one area, it was after the 10 other petitions were submitted at once it was changed to perma, the picture was just the icing on a very tall cake which then included an perma ban on TS and the forums.

 

[Nightroado]

Actually no, it was bumped to perma PRIOR to the picture of my head, so I would appreciate if you do not make accusations prior to knowing the truth.

The original petition it was not perma, as it was one area, it was after the 10 other petitions were submitted at once it was changed to perma, the picture was just the icing on a very tall cake which then included an perma ban on TS and the forums.

I never accused you of anything, I just assumed that it would've been a light punishment as a first offense sort of thing. Which was true according to what you said. They simply racked up a bunch of infractions at once to earn the perma. I was thinking the entire destruction of Rapture would have been seen as a single infraction and thus given a slap on the wrists.

 

[Angyles]

I never accused you of anything, I just assumed that it would've been a light punishment as a first offense sort of thing. Which was true according to what you said. They simply racked up a bunch of infractions at once to earn the perma. I was thinking the entire destruction of Rapture would have been seen as a single infraction and thus given a slap on the wrists.

Of course it would not be a slap on the wrist.....

 

[Nightroado]

Of course it would not be a slap on the wrist.....

I admit, I have a hard time predicting how infractions will be dealt with on HC. At times it seems like the worst things are ignored while the mildest are dealt with swiftly.

I've been muted for making a joke in T chat without warning, but submitted video that proves someone glitching into a region is issued a nothing more than a verbal warning. Not complaining, just pointing out how punishment seems to fluctuate in swiftness and intensity which in turn makes it hard to predict. At least for me. I might be the only one having a hard time predicting it, I dunno.

I've come to expect that I should have no expectations of results when making a petition and to talk in public channels as little as possible. I know you guys have a system and that you stick to it and whatnot, but I didn't even petition the griefing of Rapture as I didn't think anything would be done. I really did expect nothing more than a warning to be issued and I certainly didn't expect a rollback.

I do appreciate all the hard work you and the rest of the proctors and whatnot put into the server though. I may not agree with the way it works, but I definitely see how much time and effort you put into trying to make it work and truly thank you for all that you do.

---

Frankly, I like the idea most have been pitching in here, subregions, so that stuff like this doesn't happen. The more automated protection is in a server, the fewer incidents will occur and the less time will be spent on answering petitions, checking logs, talking to people to get the information that one line of text in a petition can't provide, and handing out punishments.

All that work can be cut down with protection that actually works. Maybe increase the protection that towns provide next map but in turn make it harder to make/upgrade towns in return for that added protection?

The problem with "use LWCs" is, as others have said, that I could not hope to fit all my stuff in them. For example, in the Rapture grief, I lost over 13,000 reeds. Most of them were farmed for a city that wanted to make a gigantic library and wanted 12,000 reeds but backed out of the deal at the last minute. Do I need 13k reeds? Nope. Would I have ever used that many? Not unless I decided to build that library for Rapture. Was I annoyed at losing them? Yes.

But that was just one item. What about all of the seeds, wheat, pumpkins, melon, beef, and every other farmer item I spent countless hours hoarding for the shops I was in the process of opening up just to have it all wiped out before I transferred them into a chestshop? There was no way for me to contain it all in 20 LWCs. I easily had over 150 chests of goods to sell, tools to use, blocks stored for later projects and what have you.

The problem is that (A) sufficient protection is not provided, even if you are a donator and (B) people can just kiss a bit of ass to get into a town and then release The Kraken.

Let's face it, people suck. I hate them to the point that I am agoraphobic. If presented with a button on a remote control and told that pressing it would end all life on this planet, I would smash the button repeatedly with as much speed and strength as I could muster before they even finished their sentence. If you do not plan for the worst when it comes to people, (especially on an online community where it can't hold any true consequences for them) then guess what? The worst happens. And it'll continue to happen time and again.

I remember the "good ol' days" in online gaming when trolling didn't even exist, people were nice to each other, and the dicks and assholes of the world were shunned and boycotted into submission. Of course, back then people at one point or another had to ask what "lol" stood for. But those days are gone and so is any hope I have for humanity, again, especially in an online environment. So either the protection gets raised or just be ready for when someone gets bored and decides watching all of your countless hours of hard work would look nice covered in lava.

 

[Danda]

I never accused you of anything, I just assumed that it would've been a light punishment as a first offense sort of thing. Which was true according to what you said. They simply racked up a bunch of infractions at once to earn the perma. I was thinking the entire destruction of Rapture would have been seen as a single infraction and thus given a slap on the wrists.

Something of that magnitude will never be dealt with as just a slap on the wrist. What they did was purely malicious and was done solely to destroy a part of the community. People like that don't deserve to play here.

but I didn't even petition the griefing of Rapture as I didn't think anything would be done.

THIS is the problem with the community atm tbh you guys complain about nothing getting done but you guys don't report shit. Now I'm not saying it's just you but I keep hearing this from people. If you guys don't report stuff surprisingly we don't know about it.

be ready for when someone gets bored and decides watching all of your countless hours of hard work would look nice covered in lava.

Just saying that literally takes less than a minute to fix the majority of the time. The only problem is items in chests

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

Something of that magnitude will never be dealt with as just a slap on the wrist.

Communication goes two ways. It was widely understood in LO that the griefers only received 2 week bans, and this cause a lot of unhappiness.

If in fact they have been perma-banned, it would have helped a lot to know this earlier.

 

[Angyles]

Communication goes two ways. It was widely understood in LO that the griefers only received 2 week bans, and this cause a lot of unhappiness.

If in fact they have been perma-banned, it would have helped a lot to know this earlier.

Sorry but we do not discuss bans with the community. If a ban appeal is posted the details are placed there, we will not discuss it otherwise.

And funny but the mayor of Rapture knew exactly what the ban was because he heard me asking Danda for the okay to perma the two tards on TS.

And leftovers5 you can disagree with my post all you wish, it is none of your damn business the punishment people receive and that has been said by Kainzo himself. Go bitch at him.