Suggestion [Staff] Return Items in Region Abuse

[Kainzo]

Sub-regions would prevent almost every instance of greifing that could happen.
New town members get regions to the entrances, farms and their house. Architects/managers get regions to the build areas, mayor gets all regions.
Maybe allow a 10x10 personal residence for non donors at a cost of 3x the price of a donor?

Sub regions never saw the light of day - I want to completely redo our region / protection system so we have one "entire" system (the same for donors/mayors/lwc etc)

 

[MajorasMask]

Sub regions never saw the light of day - I want to completely redo our region / protection system so we have one "entire" system (the same for donors/mayors/lwc etc)

When will you be able to do this?

 

[Eldrylars]

When will you be able to do this?

Most likely next Tuesday...

Really though if the project has not started I would guess it would take 2-4 months to get a working model.

 

[archceaser]

Most likely next Tuesday...

Really though if the project has not started I would guess it would take 2-4 months to get a working model.

yes but it could eliminate almost all the problems with griefing permanently so it should be put high up on the old "to do list".

 

[Eldrylars]

I think it is something that would fit well with a new server backbone. My guess (kainzo perhaps can confirm) is that this massive change would be one they would not want to do twice. Once for the bucket server and again for the spout server.
If I were a betting man I would say that this change is aimed at the future design of Herocraft and not the current limited one. It would be a lot of work to do twice.

 

[MajorasMask]

Most likely next Tuesday...

Really though if the project has not started I would guess it would take 2-4 months to get a working model.

In the time being, may you give mayors LWCs, if it will take a long time...

 

[dragonzero39]

Did you guys read my idea on bottom of first page?

 

[Diffuse]

I enjoy throwing this thread around because I find it amusing, but I actually think its one that you people that haven't read should read for this discussion. Many of these things have been discussed before.

http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/general-region-abuse-consequence.22725/

 

[10apes]

I like the idea but what happens if the mayor is offline or inactive for vacation?

 

[Dsawemd]

1. I don't see the point in not returning items lost in region abuse. The people that stole them anyways would be banned, so it's not like there would be two "copies" or dupes of the items in the system.

2. My final, and probably most concerning point, is that region abuse is NOT hardcore. There is nothing "hardcore" about getting screwed by someone in your own town region and losing all of your stuff. Sure, you can say "Oh, just get LWCs because it's too much of a hassle to return things," but that discounts all of the goddamn effort people put into collecting items over prolonged periods of time.
Items need to be returned. I just don't see why not.

I added the numbers

1. Because if the person who stole them is banned after hiding the items, it would be an easy way to duplicate countless items. More importantly, there is no sure-fire way to track an item once taken from a chest, so staff could never be 100% sure that the items were destroyed.
Consider this: I get my friend to join Herocraft and my town, he steals everything and hides it for me, or we use a method involving a third party. Upon his ban, items are rolled back except now my town is back to normal and I have lots of free stuff, which as a clever player I never get caught with. Perhaps my town even put me up to it, so that we could duplicate our Endstone or whatever.

2. This is EXACTLY hardcore. Hardcore = "you got screwed over, just like you can be IRL? wow that sucks, no free items for you!" I see your point that the hardcore part is also in the accumulation of items, but HC hardcore also means "you can lose big very quickly" as well as "you gather/gain slowly".
Your suggestion is the one that isnt hardcore! This would make towns not care about who they let in, because even if the player was untrustworthy the decision to allow them in would not have far-reaching consequences! I am surprised you used this as a point in your favor, as it is exactly the opposite!

I remember when I joined Jericho on Zeal, there was an area at the center of town called the Town Hall that only town officials had build perms on. Is this a possible placeholder?

Loading...
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[Danda]

I don't see the point in not returning items lost in region abuse. The people that stole them anyways would be banned, so it's not like there would be two "copies" or dupes of the items in the system.

The problem is that Hawk-eye will not replace items inside a chest if the chest is broken instead of having the items removed. So we have no way to determine what was in those chests. Also there would still be "copies" of the items in most circumstances since the banned player's chests are still within the map somewhere and unless that chest is LWC'd we don't have a good way to track it.

Here is how ''Copying'' works:
~Snip~

This wouldn't work since we IP check everyone involved with this sort of thing. It's rare to not see people slip up at some point on alt accounts with their IP. I'll admit this would be possible still but it's unlikely.

The amount of grief that was done would take a lot of log checking to find exactly what, who, when, and so many other variables happened.

Actually that's fairly easy and would take mere minutes to fix the issue arises when it comes to chests. Chests are an odd thing when it comes to hawk-eye and I feel it doesn't track enough data when it comes to them, now unfortunately it is the best plugin when it comes to this sort of thing so there isn't really a "good" alternative.

 

[what777]

The problem is that Hawk-eye will not replace items inside a chest if the chest is broken instead of having the items removed. So we have no way to determine what was in those chests. Also there would still be "copies" of the items in most circumstances since the banned player's chests are still within the map somewhere and unless that chest is LWC'd we don't have a good way to track it.


This wouldn't work since we IP check everyone involved with this sort of thing. It's rare to not see people slip up at some point on alt accounts with their IP. I'll admit this would be possible still but it's unlikely.

Actually that's fairly easy and would take mere minutes to fix the issue arises when it comes to chests. Chests are an odd thing when it comes to hawk-eye and I feel it doesn't track enough data when it comes to them, now unfortunately it is the best plugin when it comes to this sort of thing so there isn't really a "good" alternative.

IP adresses don't really matter, if you want you can use a VPN or proxy with your alt.

 

[Danda]

I'll admit this would be possible still but it's unlikely.

what777

 

[leftovers5]

2. This is EXACTLY hardcore. Hardcore = "you got screwed over, just like you can be IRL? wow that sucks, no free items for you!" I see your point that the hardcore part is also in the accumulation of items, but HC hardcore also means "you can lose big very quickly" as well as "you gather/gain slowly".
Your suggestion is the one that isnt hardcore! This would make towns not care about who they let in, because even if the player was untrustworthy the decision to allow them in would not have far-reaching consequences! I am surprised you used this as a point in your favor, as it is exactly the opposite!

The definition of hardcore is: unswervingly committed; uncompromising; dedicated. In this context, I don't see how the server can be "committed" or "dedicated" to its playerbase when players quit because they've been screwed by a massive region abuse scandal.

 

[Dsawemd]

Hardcore players do not quit when they lose it all. I'm just saying, leftovers5, this suggestion is NOT hardcore. I would be interested in a discussion about hardcore qualities, perhaps we can have that in ts sometime.

Just because this server is hardcore does not mean that the issue of region abuse is unpreventable. We should increase the punishment, perhaps to a 2+ map ban. This would ensure that if someone was banned on Zeal for region abuse, they would have to wait the rest of Zeal (the "+" part) and wait until After both DG and Bastion. I see many "permabans" lifted in shorter time periods, but since region abuse (at its worst) is an indicator of a mature and conniving player, the "I have matured/changed" story should not apply even if it is true.

 

[Angyles]

Region abuse should have 2 punishments - 1 week ban for stealing a couple things (new players not knowing better) and perma ban for what happened to Rapture.

Just stepping in here, if it is the same instance I am thinking of, how do you know they were not perma banned? =]

 

[Xargun]

Just stepping in here, if it is the same instance I am thinking of, how do you know they were not perma banned? =]

I do not know. I hope they did get permaban.

 

[Symbolite]

This has always been a problem for my town and towns in my kingdom in the last 2 maps. I need both hands to count how many times I've seen a town wiped clean of items due to a random griefer who uses region abuse. Poor Nevermore last map owned by xexorian probably got ransacked 5 or 6 times?

This is a huge reoccurring problem that needs a fix. Like most my first thoughts are just roll back the area / items but then there is that possibility of duping and that is why Staff don't reimburse even for incident's like these.

You know what map this never happened on? Sanctum. Why? because a mayor was simply able to region every single individual players house in the town so only 2 people could ever access a players house. The citizen who owns it and the mayor. With the introduction of HeroTown's this feature is no longer present but I'm holding onto hope that this tool could be implemented into the plugin sometime soon. It would stop a lot of small and large problems for towns and staff before they even happen.

 

[leftovers5]

dils1 - seeing as you're the only opposition to the suggestion besides Dsa, what's your reasoning/rationale?

 

[Diffuse]

For example - last map, tons of people in my town Oblivion quit after it was ransacked by Diffuse and others.

I find it interesting you mention me despite the fact that I did absolutely nothing when it came to that event. I have admitted in the past to the staff that I was aware of what was happening and did nothing to stop it, but I did not actually do it (much like the reason for which I'm currently banned ^.^). I also find it interesting that you guys constantly whine about how oblivion getting raided made soooo many people quit. I know for a fact that only maybe 6 houses were actually raided that night (four of those massive houses on the top floor along with vidal_b's and maybe 1 or 2 others in the undercity). I personally stopped them from going further. Anything else that was taken was due to your members not putting shit on their chests.