Suggestion [Rule Change] Greifing

[Vongard]

A few weeks back a received this message from Angyles:

This is to serve as an official warning in regards to your griefing of a hole near the town of Nimbus in Bastion.
(Griefing Rules do not apply in warshard) Griefing may be defined as:

• Breaking into areas otherwise impossible to enter.
• Destroying blocks in another player's structure.
  • Destroying blocks above chests in un-regioned areas is acceptable.
  • Destroying blocks in pursuit of another player is acceptable if blocks are replaced.
  • Plants must be left in a position where they will regrow to their original state. (Effective 10/1/2012)
• Mindlessly destroying the landscape.
• Placing blocks in or around a structure which you do not own.
• Leaving abusive messages in any form.
• Teleporting group members to your person and engaging in hostile actions against said group members.

Danda gave me the okay for a two week ban based on your history, BUT I am just going to issue a warning. The next infraction of any type ((Including one small little grief)), will result in a two week ban.

Thank you

Angyles

My "Greifing" was a hole that i had dug to kill a player whom had PVP logged on me. I did not "Mindlessly destroy the landscape" I dug the hole for utility so that when the player logged in he could not run and then log out again. The hole was no more than 5x5x5 so that is 25 dirt blocks to replace, maybe a minute of work. I could have been banned for TWO WEEKS.I was killed while waiting for the player to log in and returned later to fill in the hole then was killed again. Luckily Angyles was nice enough to not ban me for this.
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Today i logged in at my base to walk outside and find this:

XFuzeLogic has lived above me for a while now and this bridge leads to the top of the mountain to his house. We haven't gotten along very well as neighbors and he understands that i do not want things in front of my base like this. He built this in front of my house as an annoyance to me and the other members of my guild. I decided that this wasn't a big deal and PE'ed the structure because surely if my tiny hole was greifing this was. I got a response shortly after telling me that this wasn't greifing and that if i tried to break it i would be banned for greifing. I lack to see how these rules make sense.

I propose the following changes.

- Greifing be defined as breaking or building structures in an attempt to cause other players grief.

- If a player makes an active effort to clean his/her grief and can prove it then they can no longer be held accountable.

Thank you for your time, please post your opinions below.

 

[Danda]

My "Greifing" was a hole that i had dug to kill a player whom had PVP logged on me. I did not "Mindlessly destroy the landscape" I dug the hole for utility so that when the player logged in he could not run and then log out again. The hole was no more than 5x5x5 so that is 25 dirt blocks to replace, maybe a minute of work. I could have been banned for TWO WEEKS.I was killed while waiting for the player to log in and returned later to fill in the hole then was killed again. Luckily Angyles was nice enough to not ban me for this.

One key piece of information you're leaving out is that this was within 20 blocks of a township. Also if it was only "a minute of work" as you put it why didn't you replace it?

P.S. 5x5x5 is not 25

 

[Vongard]

One key piece of information you're leaving out is that this was within 20 blocks of a township. Also if it was only "a minute of work" as you put it why didn't you replace it?

P.S. 5x5x5 is not 25

These are the rules which were posted in my ban for my "greifing"

(Griefing Rules do not apply in warshard) Griefing may be defined as:

• Breaking into any regioned areas otherwise impossible to enter.
• Destroying blocks in another player's structure.
  • Destroying blocks above chests in un-regioned areas is acceptable.
  • Destroying blocks in pursuit of another player is acceptable if the exact blocks are replaced.
  • Plants must be left in a position where they will regrow to their original state.
• Mindlessly destroying the landscape.
• Placing blocks in or around a structure which you do not own.
• Leaving abusive messages in any form.
• Teleporting group members to your person and engaging in hostile actions against said group members.

Can you please red the underlined one for me? Xfuze griefed, all i did was clean up a grief outside my house.

 

[Angyles]

These are the rules which were posted in my ban for my "greifing"

(Griefing Rules do not apply in warshard) Griefing may be defined as:

• Breaking into any regioned areas otherwise impossible to enter.
• Destroying blocks in another player's structure.
  • Destroying blocks above chests in un-regioned areas is acceptable.
  • Destroying blocks in pursuit of another player is acceptable if the exact blocks are replaced.
  • Plants must be left in a position where they will regrow to their original state.
• Mindlessly destroying the landscape.
• Placing blocks in or around a structure which you do not own.
• Leaving abusive messages in any form.
• Teleporting group members to your person and engaging in hostile actions against said group members.

Can you please red the underlined one for me? Xfuze griefed, all i did was clean up a grief outside my house.

Issue is if you are going by that, most of the shops along the road out of spawn constitutes as griefing as they are close to each other. Houses cannot be near each other. The road was not attached to your area. If the road touched your door or structure I would agree it would be griefing.


How many blocks would be considered "in or around"? One? Two? Fifteen? What do you suggest?

 

[Pampita]

FuzLogix
EDIT: As far as i see in that pictures, there are no-signs claiming your structure.

 

[Vongard]

Angyles so you are argueing that a structure built to CAUSE GRIEF is not griefing but a structure built for utility is griefing? How are you a moderator with that type of logic.

 

[Danda]

Angyles so you are argueing that a structure built to CAUSE GRIEF is not griefing but a structure built for utility is griefing? How are you a moderator with that type of logic.

Someone needs to read her post again. Also how is a road not utility?

 

[Angyles]

Angyles so you are argueing that a structure built to CAUSE GRIEF is not griefing but a structure built for utility is griefing? How are you a moderator with that type of logic.

How was the road built to cause you grief?

 

[Vongard]

Nice to see the great moderators and admins of herocraft ganging up on a player making a simple suggestion. Please stay off my posts.

 

[Angyles]

Nice to see the great moderators and admins of herocraft ganging up on a player making a simple suggestion. Please stay off my posts.

I am not ganging up on you. I asked in my post:

Issue is if you are going by that, most of the shops along the road out of spawn constitutes as griefing as they are close to each other. Houses cannot be near each other. The road was not attached to your area. If the road touched your door or structure I would agree it would be griefing.


How many blocks would be considered "in or around"? One? Two? Fifteen? What do you suggest?

So how many blocks away should the road have been to not have been "In or around" your structure?

You cannot change things unless a discussion is had on what YOU think is right. So make some suggestions so it can be discussed...the pros and cons.

 

[Vongard]

One key piece of information you're leaving out is that this was within 20 blocks of a township. Also if it was only "a minute of work" as you put it why didn't you replace it?

P.S. 5x5x5 is not 25

I said in my post i was killed repeatedly while attempting to return to fix it.

yes i made a math error good job.

 

[Keache]

FuzLogix
EDIT: As far as i see in that pictures, there are no-signs claiming your structure.

It's got a sign inside saying "Home of Legacy" as well as a fucking region

 

[victim130]

I am trying my hardest here to be civil, so pardon any outbursts. Danda warned you, then he let you off the hook and then you even go against his word to force his hand a third time. I mean I'm not one for these types of bans, but you seriously had tons of warnings in comparison to a lot of other players. This ranting you have here is just going to make the community hate you more than they already do and maybe even a perma ban if they feel like you need one.

PS: Give me back Xani and Charles.

 

[Vongard]

I am trying my hardest here to be civil, so pardon any outbursts. Danda warned you, then he let you off the hook and then you even go against his word to force his hand a third time. I mean I'm not one for these types of bans, but you seriously had tons of warnings in comparison to a lot of other players. This ranting you have here is just going to make the community hate you more than they already do and maybe even a perma ban if they feel like you need one.

PS: Give me back Xani and Charles.

This is a suggestion about greifing rules, this post is not meant to be about my specific instance.

 

[victim130]

This is a suggestion about greifing rules, this post is not meant to be about my specific instance.

You say that, but you have it linked as your ban appeal reason. Either way, nothing is stated about regioned areas, only towns in the case of him building that road was totally legal even if it was just to piss you off. This is just a case of you not getting your way so you want it changed, is that really fair to those who think the rule is fine?

 

[Danda]

I said in my post i was killed repeatedly while attempting to return to fix it.
yes i made a math error good job.

Ok I'll admit it I skim read your post and missed that.

If this is indeed a suggestion thread mind clarifying these things for me?

how is a road not utility?

How many blocks would be considered "in or around"? One? Two? Fifteen? What do you suggest?

 

[Vongard]

You say that, but you have it linked as your ban appeal reason. Either way, nothing is stated about regioned areas, only towns in the case of him building that road was totally legal even if it was just to piss you off. This is just a case of you not getting your way so you want it changed, is that really fair to those who think the rule is fine?

This rule has been broken for a while, my ban caused me to act. i understand you want to get your opinion out but personally i don't care what your opinion is stay on topic or leave.

 

[Angyles]

Since the question is being avoided, even though it is his suggestion thread:

Does anyone else have a suggestion on how close something must be?

 

[Pampita]

Since the question is being avoided, even though it is his suggestion thread:

Does anyone else have a suggestion on how close something must be?

I would say 5 blocks would be a reasonable size.

 

[victim130]

Since the question is being avoided, even though it is his suggestion thread:

Does anyone else have a suggestion on how close something must be?

Honestly, if its a wall, random blocks within like 10 blocksish I'd say that's grief, but an obvious structure with ourpose within 5 blocks really should be something the two players work out.