Revamp #3

leftovers5 · Jun 13, 2013

Just wondering, why the need to remove Revive from Mystics? It's the only thing I disagree with after reading through your notes.

Licksterboy · Jun 13, 2013

leftovers5 said:
Just wondering, why the need to remove Revive from Mystics? It's the only thing I disagree with after reading through your notes.

Oh, I did not realize this was the case, I have to agree with leftovers on this one. Then again, this would leave three healer classes having a revive. Hmm...

On a side note, does anyone else feel that might for mystic is a bit, unnecessary? It just does't seem to fit the class the way it did on cleric. I figured I'd bring this up since mystic is getting a rather large amount of changes, mystic has several HoT spells, and a lot of utility. I'd rather see cleric get might back since groupheal is on an extremely long cool down, and possibly remove invlun from cleric since it already has guardian angel. OR, maybe the skill, might, could have a name change that fits more closely to what mystic is about.

Eldrylars · Jun 13, 2013

Licksterboy said:
Oh, I did not realize this was the case, I have to agree with leftovers on this one. Then again, this would leave three healer classes having a revive. Hmm...

On a side note, does anyone else feel that might for mystic is a bit, unnecessary? It just does't seem to fit the class the way it did on cleric. I figured I'd bring this up since mystic is getting a rather large amount of changes, mystic has several HoT spells, and a lot of utility. I'd rather see cleric get might back since groupheal is on an extremely long cool down, and possibly remove invlun from cleric since it already has guardian angel. OR, maybe the skill, might, could have a name change that fits more closely to what mystic is about.

Honestly, Cleric is broken right now and randomly switching out skills for this and that is something I caution against at this time. Chancing making things worse until better/permanent solutions are decided on and tested is something I advise against.
Cleric after this revamp will be used even less then it was before and that's ok, as long as we take the time to address it next round. Yet just trying to randomly switch things up at the last second is not going to bode well.

I would also say on the short that Invuln is required even with guardian, unless we are switching up Clerics armor to Diamond or giving them Conviction. They already die insanely fast to high dps melee the only thing that can even give them a short breath is Invuln, even with it they will die shortly afterwords

Eldrylars · Jun 13, 2013

leftovers5 said:
Just wondering, why the need to remove Revive from Mystics? It's the only thing I disagree with after reading through your notes.

The thought was that because they have Port and Might and Stamina heal that Revive was just to many skills.
Honestly I am of the opinion that the more skills the better as long as similar classes have just as many options and the classes can be kept somewhat unique.

Personally a weaker Revive, perhaps 10 minute cooldown/higher cost or just a very high cost, 100 mana or something would give them the utility but then Cleric can be adjusted at some point to give them a good edge over Mystic?

Just a thought off the top of my head.

Kainzo · Jun 13, 2013

Delfofthebla said:
I didn't mean to imply you were comparing it to Wizard, but I felt the need to make the comparison myself.

Current changes since last update:

Code:

Added expire texts to many DoT effects that did not have them. Ire cooldown increased to 9 seconds (from 7). Bolt mana cost increased to 26 (from 24). Might mana cost increased to 30 (from 20). Rejuvenate cooldown increased to 16 (from 8). Chlorobon mana cost increased to 27 (from 25). Chlorobon cooldown increased to 18 (from 10). ManaFreeze cooldown increased to 10 seconds (from 7). ManaFreeze duration increased to 25 seconds (from 15). Harmtouch mana cost increased to 35 (from 0). Harmtouch stamina cost reduced to 5 (from 8). Poison now properly lasts 18 seconds, as originally intended. Battery transfer-amount reduced to 30 (from 35). SoulFire mana cost reduced to 15 (from 20). SoulFire stamina cost reduced to 4 (from 7). Conviction mana cost reduced to 50 (from 55). Conviction stamina cost reduced to 0 (from 5). Conviction cooldown increased to 30 seconds (from 10). Conviction duration decreased to 3 minutes (from 5). Layhands mana cost increased to 40 (from 20). Layhands stamina cost reduced to 0 (from 3). Absolution cooldown increased to 20 seconds (from 15). Fearless no longer increases skill damage. Fearless incoming damage multiplier reduced to 115% (from 120). Fearless outgoing damage multiplier reduced to 125% (from 130).

-------------------------------
Actual Full Changelog:

Overall:

Global Cooldown has been increased to 1 second (from 0.5).

Several effects that did not previously have expire texts now have them.

Runeblade

IceRune cooldown increased to 10 seconds (from 8).

Rune Application was incorrectly set to 750ms on the test server. This has been corrected to 1 second.

Ninja

EscapeArtist stamina cost reduced to 6 (from 10).

Backstab chance to apply when not sneaking increased to 40% (from 20).
(Chance to backstab while sneaking is unchanged.)

Base damage with swords has been reduced.

Wooden Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 45 (from 51).

Stone Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 62 (from 73).

Iron Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 82 (from 94).

Diamond Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 96 (from 105).

Gold Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 108 (from 122).

Pyromancer

Fireblast damage reduced to 150 (from 175).

ChaosOrb base damage reduced to 128 (from 150).

ChaosOrb damage per level reduced to 0.8 (from 1).
(Overall damage reduced by about 35)

Inferno now deals 50 instant fire damage on use, as originally intended.

Inferno warmup increased to 1.5 seconds (from 1).

Necromancer

Battery mana-transfer amount reduced to 30 (from 35).

Poison was incorrectly only lasting for 13 seconds. It now lasts for 18 seconds (as intended).

Mystic

Moved a few skills around to make leveling / fighting at low levels a smoother experience.

Removed Chloroblast.

Removed Revive.

Chlorobon Reworked:

Adds a 12 second buff to the target that heals for 72 health every 3 seconds.

27 mana cost.

18 second cooldown.

1.5 second warmup.

Soothe cooldown decreased to 3 seconds (from 4).

Soothe healing decreased to 125 (from 130).

Soothe mana cost increased to 10 (from 7).

Soothe warmup decreased to 1 second (from 1.5).

Entangle mana cost increased to 18 (from 15).

Rejuvenate now has a 1 second warmup.

Rejuvenate mana cost reduced to 20 (from 23).

Rejuvenate cooldown increased to 16 seconds (from 15).

Rejuvenate range reduced to 14 blocks (from 15).

Rejuvenate healing per tick increased to 48 (from 34).

Rejuvenate duration reduced to 15 seconds (from 21).
(Overall healing reduced by 12)

Replenish mana restoration reduced to 52% (from 1000). --------- This is about 102 mana at lvl 65

Replenish cooldown increased to 5 minutes (from 2).

Might mana cost increased to 30 (from 20).

Bolt mana cost increased to 26 (from 24).

Ire cooldown increased to 9 seconds (from 7).

Cleric

Remedy warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5)

Remedy healing to 265 (from 250).

SacredTouch warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5).

SacredTouch healing increased to to 365 (from 350).

Disiciple

ForcePush mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).

ForcePush damage reduced to 35 (from 70).

ForcePush stamina cost reduced to 3 (from 4).

ForcePull mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).

ForcePull damage reduced to 35 (from 70).

ForcePull stamina cost reduced to 3 (from 4).

QuiveringPalm description has been fixed to report the correct duration.

QuiveringPalm duration increased to 4.5 seconds (from 2.5).

Bloodmage

Full Rework.

Warriors

Bash base damage reduced to 59 (from 89).

Cleave damage multiplier reduced to 100% (from 150).

Paladin

SheildReflect description has been improved to be more...descriptive.

ShieldReflect now properly reflects DoT skill damage.

Absolution cooldown increased to 20 seconds (from 15).

Conviction mana cost reduced to 50 (from 55).

Conviction stamina cost reduced to 0 (from 5).

Conviction cooldown increased to 30 seconds (from 10).

Conviction duration decreased to 3 minutes (from 5).

SoulFire mana cost reduced to 15 (from 20).

SoulFire stamina cost reduced to 4 (from 7).

LayHands mana cost increased to 40 (from 20).

LayHands stamina cost reduced to 0 (from 3).

Dragoon

LunarLance damage reduced to 95 (from 110).

LunarLance Mana-Burn reduced to 18 (from 20).

Impale slowness value reduced to 3 (from 4).
(Impale was originally intended to be slowness 2. It was incorrectly upgraded to 4 at some point).

Tremor cooldown increased to 9 seconds (from 7).

Dreadknight

Empathy stamina cost increased to 4 (from 0).

Empathy mana cost reduced to 23 (from 30).

Terror stamina cost increased to 4 (from 3).

Terror mana cost decreased to 16 (from 20).

ManaFreeze cooldown increased to 10 seconds (from 7).

ManaFreeze duration increased to 25 seconds (from 15).

HarmTouch mana cost increased to 35 (from 0).

HarmTouch stamina cost reduced to 5 (from 8).

Samurai

Moved a few skills around to make leveling / fighting at low levels a smoother experience.

MortalWound tickrate reduced to 5 seconds (from 7).

MortalWound duration reduced to 15 seconds (from 21).

MortalWound damage per tick decreased to 25 (from 33).
(Overall damage reduced from Weapon Damage + 99 to Weapon Damage + 51. DoT ticks slightly faster, but lasts for a shorter time.)

Disgrace tickrate reduced to 5 seconds (from 7).

Disgrace duration reduced to 15 seconds (from 21).
(Overall damage reduced from 198 to 156. DoT ticks slightly faster, but lasts for a shorter time.)

Fearless no longer increases damage outgoing damage from abilities.

Fearless incoming damage multiplier reduced to 115% (from 120).

Fearless outgoing damage multiplier reduced to 125% (from 130).

Impermanence stamina cost reduced to 6 (from 10).

AsuraSlash stamina cost increased to 8 (from 6).

Cleave stamina cost increased to 10 (from 8).

I dont agree with the removal of Revive from Mystic - I do agree with a renaming of the skill to be more "nature-ish" but as healer spec should have the basic form of revive.

Delfofthebla · Jun 14, 2013

leftovers5 said:
Just wondering, why the need to remove Revive from Mystics? It's the only thing I disagree with after reading through your notes.

I personally just felt as though the class had too much going for it. They had a large plethora of skills (more-so than any other class) and while not all of them were usable in every fight, I just felt as though they didn't need it.

However, Kainzo has said that he wishes for them to keep it, so they shall.

Eldrylars said:
Honestly, Cleric is broken right now and randomly switching out skills for this and that is something I caution against at this time. Chancing making things worse until better/permanent solutions are decided on and tested is something I advise against.
Cleric after this revamp will be used even less then it was before and that's ok, as long as we take the time to address it next round. Yet just trying to randomly switch things up at the last second is not going to bode well.

I would also say on the short that Invuln is required even with guardian, unless we are switching up Clerics armor to Diamond or giving them Conviction. They already die insanely fast to high dps melee the only thing that can even give them a short breath is Invuln, even with it they will die shortly afterwords

Would you suggest reverting any or all of the changes we've made to Cleric over the past two weeks?

Kainzo · Jun 14, 2013

Eldrylars said:
The thought was that because they have Port and Might and Stamina heal that Revive was just to many skills.
Honestly I am of the opinion that the more skills the better as long as similar classes have just as many options and the classes can be kept somewhat unique.

Personally a weaker Revive, perhaps 10 minute cooldown/higher cost or just a very high cost, 100 mana or something would give them the utility but then Cleric can be adjusted at some point to give them a good edge over Mystic?

Just a thought off the top of my head.

I do agree that some of these changes seemed to be made just to "change things up" and I don't agree with that. There needs to be a reason for each change if one is merited.

Delfofthebla · Jun 14, 2013

Code:

Changes since last update:
 
Bloodmage number tweaks.
 
Reckoning mana cost increased to 22 (from 20).
ShieldReflect mana cost increased to 16 (from 14).
 
 
Mystic:
Renamed Chlorobon to Regrowth.
 
Soothe healing reduced to 120 (from 125).
 
Regrowth duration increased to 15 seconds (from 12).
Regrowth healing per tick reduced to 57 (from 72).
Regrowth mana cost increased to 27 (from 25).
Regrowth cooldown increased to 18 seconds (from 10).
 
Entangle cooldown increased to 20 seconds
New skill: Earthwall
Description: Conjures a wall of Earth in front of the caster.

-------------------------------
Actual Full Changelog:

Runeblade
- IceRune cooldown increased to 10 seconds (from 8).
Ninja
- EscapeArtist stamina cost reduced to 6 (from 10).
- Backstab chance to apply when not sneaking increased to 40% (from 20).
  (Chance to backstab while sneaking is unchanged.)
- Base damage with swords has been reduced.
  - Wooden Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 45 (from 51).
  - Stone Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 62 (from 73).
  - Iron Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 82 (from 94).
  - Diamond Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 96 (from 105).
  - Gold Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 108 (from 122).
Pyromancer
- Fireblast damage reduced to 150 (from 175).
- ChaosOrb base damage reduced to 128 (from 150).
- ChaosOrb damage per level reduced to 0.8 (from 1).
  (Overall damage reduced by about 35)
- Inferno now deals 50 instant fire damage on use, as originally intended.
- Inferno warmup increased to 1.5 seconds (from 1).
Mystic
- Moved a few skills around to make leveling / fighting at low levels a smoother experience.
- Removed Chloroblast.
- Removed Chlorobon.
- New Skill: Regrowth:
  - Restores 285 to your target over 15 seconds.
- New Skill: EarthWall
  - Conjures a Wall of Earth in front of the caster. The wall is 6 blocks wide and 2 blocks high. Expires after 5 seconds.
- Soothe cooldown decreased to 3 seconds (from 4).
- Soothe healing decreased to 120 (from 130).
- Soothe mana cost increased to 10 (from 7).
- Soothe warmup decreased to 1 second (from 1.5).
- Entangle mana cost increased to 20 (from 15).
- Rejuvenate now has a 1 second warmup.
- Rejuvenate mana cost reduced to 20 (from 23).
- Rejuvenate cooldown reduced to 9 seconds (from 15).
- Rejuvenate range reduced to 14 blocks (from 15).
- Rejuvenate healing per tick increased to 48 (from 34).
- Rejuvenate duration reduced to 15 seconds (from 21).
  (Overall healing reduced by 12)
- Replenish mana restoration reduced to 52% (from 1000). --------- This is about 102 mana at lvl 65
- Replenish cooldown increased to 5 minutes (from 2).
Cleric
- Remedy warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5)
- Remedy healing to 265 (from 250).
- SacredTouch warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5).
- SacredTouch healing increased to to 365 (from 350).
Disiciple
- ForcePush mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).
- ForcePush damage reduced to 35 (from 70).
- ForcePush stamina cost reduced to 3 (from 4).
- ForcePull mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).
- ForcePull damage reduced to 35 (from 70).
- ForcePull stamina cost reduced to 3 (from 4).
- QuiveringPalm description has been fixed to report the correct duration.
- QuiveringPalm duration increased to 3.5 seconds (from 2.5).
Bloodmage
- Full Rework.
Warriors
- Bash base damage reduced to 59 (from 89).
- Cleave damage multiplier reduced to 100% (from 150).
Paladin
- SheildReflect description has been improved to be more...descriptive.
- ShieldReflect now properly reflects DoT skill damage.
- ShieldReflect mana cost increased to 16 (from 14).
- Reckoning mana cost increased to 22 (from 20).
- Absolution cooldown increased to 20 seconds (from 15).
- SoulFire mana cost reduced to 15 (from 20).
- SoulFire stamina cost reduced to 4 (from 7).
- Conviction mana cost reduced to 50 (from 55).
- Conviction stamina cost reduced to 0 (from 5).
- Conviction cooldown increased to 30 seconds (from 10).
- Conviction duration decreased to 3 minutes (from 5).
- Layhands mana cost increased to 40 (from 20).
- Layhands stamina cost reduced to 0 (from 3).
Dragoon
- LunarLance damage reduced to 95 (from 110).
- LunarLance Mana-Burn reduced to 18 (from 20).
- Impale slowness value reduced to 3 (from 4).
  (Impale was originally intended to be slowness 2. It was incorrectly upgraded to 4 at some point).
- Tremor cooldown increased to 9 seconds (from 7).
Dreadknight
- Empathy stamina cost increased to 4 (from 0).
- Empathy mana cost reduced to 23 (from 30).
- Terror stamina cost increased to 4 (from 3).
- Terror mana cost decreased to 16 (from 20).
Samurai
- Moved a few skills around to make leveling / fighting at low levels a smoother experience.
- MortalWound tickrate reduced to 5 seconds (from 7).
- MortalWound duration reduced to 15 seconds (from 21).
- MortalWound damage per tick decreased to 25(from 33).
  (Overall damage reduced from Weapon Damage + 99 to Weapon Damage + 51. DoT ticks slightly faster, but lasts for a shorter time.)
- Disgrace tickrate reduced to 5 seconds (from 7).
- Disgrace duration reduced to 15 seconds (from 21).
  (Overall damage reduced from 198 to 156. DoT ticks slightly faster, but lasts for a shorter time.)
- Impermanence stamina cost reduced to 6 (from 10).
- AsuraSlash stamina cost increased to 8 (from 6).

Eldrylars · Jun 15, 2013

Kainzo said:
I do agree that some of these changes seemed to be made just to "change things up" and I don't agree with that. There needs to be a reason for each change if one is merited.

While I agree that some of the changes seem to be without a place or partial changes. I do see a lot of small tweaks that help balance things. I say we set another timeline for us on the back end but not for the public and try to even things out over the next two weeks.

Sort of smooth the changes as I think a lot of classes have moved into nice spots and only a few classes are really rough.

After that we need to be gifted will all the current numbers for each class. All of them numbers and we can try to move into the desired place of slowing combat by changing up all the numbers and balancing upwards.

I am out for today.
I will contribute more lata.

Would you suggest reverting any or all of the changes we've made to Cleric over the past two weeks?

I would have said yes had I been online :rolleyes:

Ohwell, we will re-address it all soon and make a nice big push again in the next couple weeks.

Kainzo · Jun 15, 2013

Closing topic so we can put up Revamp #4 stuff / debate. Feel free to carry over / quote anything from this though.

Revamp #3

leftovers5

Licksterboy

Eldrylars

Eldrylars

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero

Delfofthebla

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero

Delfofthebla

Eldrylars

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero