Revamp #3

Haunted9899 · Jun 1, 2013

Kainzo said:
There is most certainly uses for Quantum in combat. Just because you may not think so doesn't mean its usable. It's an environment-situational skill.

If we need to increase the range, we will.

I personally think that changing quantum leap would make it a lot better. I mean I can put up a poll about whether or not other beguilers feel the same way, but I have to assume they do. Take this combat scenario for instance:

You are fighting a melee, they are getting the upper hand, you start running from them, you turn and use quantum leap on them.... *poof* you both swap places but are still facing each other and it in no way helps you get further away or disorients the target, in fact all you did was waste some mana...

Aside from swapping someone who is at a higher level then you (i.e. on top of a wall etc.) it has very little combat use. Of course in the wall scenario, it hardly matters which way you are facing in the end. I just don't see why having the caster be able to juke with the skill would be a bad thing. It doesn't change the mechanic of the skill, just the way you are facing.

Kainzo · Jun 1, 2013

It is designed to be a situational environment skill. It is not designed as a gap closer (which is insane to begin with) or anything of that sort.

Haunted9899 · Jun 1, 2013

Kainzo said:
It is designed to be a situational environment skill. It is not designed as a gap closer (which is insane to begin with) or anything of that sort.

Kainzo said:
I purposely wanted Quantumleap to copy the facing direction.

I dont think I said anything about gap closing, but possible gap opening. I did say this :

"it in no way helps you get further away or disorients the target, in fact all you did was waste some mana..."

which is talking about the skill not helping you get away. This is all beside the point though . I was just trying to say that it would be a good idea to have the skill not copy facing direction, not change the overall skill. It is moot though I guess, you seem to be very against it. (I'm dropping it)

but yeah, I never said it should be a gap closer.

Eldrylars · Jun 3, 2013

For a long winded explanation see my other post
But I suggest testing the following to see how the viability between the healers balances on group pvp on test.

Mystic
- Decrease cooldown of Soothe to 1 seconds (from 4).
- Soothe healing to 120
- Soothe warmup to 1s
- Chloroblast warmup to 2s
- Chloroblast healing to 220
- Chlorobon warmup to 2s
- Chlorobon healing to 320
Cleric
- Athema warmup to 2 seconds
- Anathema mana cost to 35
- FullHeal warmup to 3 seconds
- Remedy warmup to 3 seconds
- Remedy healing to 280
- SacredTouch warmup to 3 seconds
- SacredTouch healing to 380
- GuardianAngel duration to 4.5
- I would still bring up for testing the idea of naturally giving Clerics swords.
  - add sword as an allowed weapon.
  - Lower max melee damage from sword/how to 40.
Bloodmage
- - Infusion healing to 150
  - Infusion mana cost to 10
  - Insusion healthcost to 60(40% of heal)
  - Infusion warmup to instant
  - Infusion cooldown to 8s
  - BloodGift healing to 250
  - BloodGift mana cost to 25
    BloodGift healthcost to 100. (40% of heal)
  - BloodGift warmup to instant
  - BloodGift cooldown to 15s
Disiciple
- ForcePush mana cost to 10.
- ForcePush damange to 35.
- ForcePull mana cost to 10.
- Forcepull damage to 35.
- Chakra to 8 blocks.

Healing-
I would be interested to see the different roles of healing balanced similar to the above list.
Clerics larger slower healer, Mystics faster weaker heals, Bloodmages heals through damaging opponents or self sacrifice.

Forcespells -
I believe limiting the amount of times a force spell is cast against limiting the physical damage it does it the wrong way to go. Bring the casting cost back down and try a damage reduction instead. This way the utility of the spell will remain and it's over utility will be handled by less physical damage instead of less casts.

Anathema-
I still don't see the spells place but at a 3 second cast it's still not very usable. If the idea is a little more damage that we want to control and limit then increase the mana cost so it's more painful to cast but reduce the casting time to something more appropriate to the low damage/range and new higher cost.

Chakra-
I see this as being drug to far out of line to be balanced with the other group heals with all the changes. We should consider playing with it up between 8 and 10 again with the debuff removal and the buff to Bloodmages group healing

Infusion/Bloodgift-
These seem to be changing to more self sacrifice type spells which I enjoy the idea. Due to the high risk in healing others and the limited self healing they would grant to make them balanced with the heals from other healers make them instant cast. Control them with the added mana cost and the slightly increased cooldowns.

Cleric/Mystic heals-
Simply speed or power. I would love to see the healing variance balance between the two as one being the faster weaker healer and the other being the slower more powerful healer.

Sooth-
Throws this spell to out of line with such a long cooldown for a weak heal.

GuardianAngel-
With the new self sacrifice cost of Guardian I don't see it unbalancing it.

Cleric w/Swords-
See my other post that explains this and everything else in more detail.

Delfofthebla · Jun 3, 2013

Eldrylars said:
For a long winded explanation see my other post
But I suggest testing the following to see how the viability between the healers balances on group pvp on test.

Mystic

Decrease cooldown of Soothe to 1 seconds (from 4).

Soothe healing to 120

Soothe warmup to 1s

Chloroblast warmup to 2s

Chloroblast healing to 220

Chlorobon warmup to 2s

Chlorobon healing to 320

Cleric

Athema warmup to 2 seconds

Anathema mana cost to 35

FullHeal warmup to 3 seconds

Remedy warmup to 3 seconds

Remedy healing to 280

SacredTouch warmup to 3 seconds

SacredTouch healing to 380

GuardianAngel duration to 4.5

I would still bring up for testing the idea of naturally giving Clerics swords.

add sword as an allowed weapon.

Lower max melee damage from sword/how to 40.

Bloodmage

Infusion healing to 150

Infusion mana cost to 10

Insusion healthcost to 60(40% of heal)

Infusion warmup to instant

Infusion cooldown to 8s

BloodGift healing to 250

BloodGift mana cost to 25
BloodGift healthcost to 100. (40% of heal)

BloodGift warmup to instant

BloodGift cooldown to 15s

Disiciple

ForcePush mana cost to 10.

ForcePush damange to 35.

ForcePull mana cost to 10.

Forcepull damage to 35.

Chakra to 8 blocks.

Healing-
I would be interested to see the different roles of healing balanced similar to the above list.
Clerics larger slower healer, Mystics faster weaker heals, Bloodmages heals through damaging opponents or self sacrifice.

Forcespells -
I believe limiting the amount of times a force spell is cast against limiting the physical damage it does it the wrong way to go. Bring the casting cost back down and try a damage reduction instead. This way the utility of the spell will remain and it's over utility will be handled by less physical damage instead of less casts.

Anathema-
I still don't see the spells place but at a 3 second cast it's still not very usable. If the idea is a little more damage that we want to control and limit then increase the mana cost so it's more painful to cast but reduce the casting time to something more appropriate to the low damage/range and new higher cost.

Chakra-
I see this as being drug to far out of line to be balanced with the other group heals with all the changes. We should consider playing with it up between 8 and 10 again with the debuff removal and the buff to Bloodmages group healing

Infusion/Bloodgift-
These seem to be changing to more self sacrifice type spells which I enjoy the idea. Due to the high risk in healing others and the limited self healing they would grant to make them balanced with the heals from other healers make them instant cast. Control them with the added mana cost and the slightly increased cooldowns.

Cleric/Mystic heals-
Simply speed or power. I would love to see the healing variance balance between the two as one being the faster weaker healer and the other being the slower more powerful healer.

Sooth-
Throws this spell to out of line with such a long cooldown for a weak heal.

GuardianAngel-
With the new self sacrifice cost of Guardian I don't see it unbalancing it.

Cleric w/Swords-
See my other post that explains this and everything else in more detail.

Cleric Warmups:
I agree that having them have longer warmups, higher heals is for the best. I'll make most of these changes in a bit.

I disagree a bit on FullHeal. A 100% full heal is insanely powerful on Herocraft. The ability to completely negate all damage done to a target is really really strong, and I don't really even like that it exists in the first place. In the cases of both LayHands and FullHeal, I feel it is too strong. I noticed that it has a pretty hefty mana cost, which is good, but I'm just not comfortable with them having a quick instaheal.

Also, after reading your post and going over the numbers, I don't understand why SacredTouch has the same warmup as Remedy, but heals for 100 more. I understand that it does indeed cost more mana to use SacredTouch, but I worry that it might be too efficient for the warmup time. What are your thoughts on that?

Guardian Angel:
I really can't agree with guardian angel being buffed. Even if it costs health, I don't think it is balanced. I think you underestimate how strong invulnerability is. Regardless of whether or not players can use skills, they can still left click, and they can still move. A long invuln period is out of the question while they still have the ability to do these things.

Clerics w/Swords:
I don't like this because of the weapon enchants. Fire Aspects, Sharpness, and Knockback. These are all very powerful enchants that I don't feel comfortable with Clerics having. Not sure what Kainzo or anyone elses thoughts are on this, but I'm personally against it.

Anthema:
While I agree that this essentially a fairly useless skill that does not fit the class, it was something that was added in the Revamp and thus, I do not know whether or not Kainzo is wanting us to tweak this. He intended for it to be a long warmup ability, and we've already reduced it once before. Reducing it any further removed the purpose of it's creation, and thus, I think we need to speak to Kainzo first before we touch it.

One thing Id' like to point out here, is that in the previous revamp, we saw it very clearly how much of a terrible idea increasing warmups/ranges was. We did this a tiny bit, but in general, long warmups are not fun. They don't work. Herocraft is too fast paced, and too filled with interupts/burst damage for these kinds of skills to exist--at least for damaging abilities. Long warmups on heals / utility skills are fine, but when it comes to damage, we really can't be bothered to use these kinds of skills. It just doesn't work.

Just my 2 cents there.

Mystic Changes:
I can make these changes to Soothe/Chloroblast, but we were thinking about changing Chlorobon into another HoT effect, so I'm gonna skip that stuff for now.

ForcePush/ForcePull:
I can agree with this. I was thinking a similar thing the other day. I'll throw these changes on test in a bit.

Chakra:
The issue with Chakra isn't the heal, but the dispel. Dispel is a very very very powerful tool that I believe is given away too freely on Herocraft. One Disciple effectively makes a Necromancer/Pyromancer/(current)Bloodmage completely useless. And while they won't completely gimp a Samurai, being able to remove both Disgrace and MortalWound is absolutely ludicrous. If I could have it my way, I would remove dispel from Chakra completely. It just isn't fair to other classes.

This effect is only worsened when you have multiple Disciples in the party. 2-3 classes with an 8 second 100 health AoE heal that dispells 2 debuffs is pretty insane. Because of this, I do not think the range should be increased. If you are wanting to increase the range, I believe either the cooldown or dispel effect should be removed completely. Most Disciples however are of the opinion that "Chakra is what makes the class". For this reason, I don't think we can really get away with removing the dispel. To he honest, I'd like to see Kainzo's thoughts on the Chakra situation.

BloodMage:
Going to skip this stuff for now. Once the rework is finished (within a day or two) we should discuss things in greater detail.

Delfofthebla · Jun 3, 2013

Current Changes (Most of this won't be seen until next restart):

Overall:

Global Cooldown has been increased to 1 second (from 0.5).

Runeblade
- IceRune cooldown increased to 10 seconds (from 8).
Mystic
- Soothe cooldown decreased to 2 seconds (from 4).
- Soothe healing decreased to 115 (from 130).
- Soothe warmup decreased to 1 second (from 1.5).
- Chloroblast warmup decreased to 2 seconds (from 2.5).
- Chloroblast healing reduced to 220 (from 250).
Cleric
- Remedy warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5)
- Remedy healing to 275 (from 250).
- SacredTouch warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5).
- SacredTouch healing increased to to 375 (from 350).
Disiciple
- ForcePush mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).
- ForcePush damage reduced to 35 (from 70).
- ForcePull mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).
- ForcePull damage reduced to 35 (from 70).
- QuiveringPalm description has been fixed to report the correct duration.
- QuiveringPalm duration increased to 3.5 seconds (from 2.5).
Paladin
- SheildReflect description has been improved to be more...descriptive.
- ShieldReflect now properly reflects DoT skill damage.

Stuff that's in the pipeline, but not finished:

Reworking Bloodmage.

Reworking Chlorobon.

Possible tweaks / additions to Pyromancer.

Eldrylars · Jun 3, 2013

Cleric Warmups:
I agree that having them have longer warmups, higher heals is for the best. I'll make most of these changes in a bit.

I disagree a bit on FullHeal. A 100% full heal is insanely powerful on Herocraft. The ability to completely negate all damage done to a target is really really strong, and I don't really even like that it exists in the first place. In the cases of both LayHands and FullHeal, I feel it is too strong. I noticed that it has a pretty hefty mana cost, which is good, but I'm just not comfortable with them having a quick instaheal.

Yes, any full heal is very powerful. As you noted though, fullheal takes 25% of the Clerics mana. That means 1 group invuln and 1 fullheal and 1 group heal and the Cleric is down to 40% mana(I am not exact on this but it should be close) which means that they are for all intensive purposes halfway to dead .

With the introduction of emeralds I could see some change to get back into the fight but the limiter on full heal is the mana cost. I would also suggest doing some testing in small group settings.

I can imagine that it would be more beneficial in 2v2 then in 4v4 but how unbalancing would it be?

Perhaps a better balancer would be the cooldown. Raise the cooldown to 120s but decrease the warmup to 3s.

This way you can cast it only once or twice during your average fight but it would still have a manageable warm up?

More to test I guess

Also, after reading your post and going over the numbers, I don't understand why SacredTouch has the same warmup as Remedy, but heals for 100 more. I understand that it does indeed cost more mana to use SacredTouch, but I worry that it might be too efficient for the warmup time. What are your thoughts on that?

Pray/Chant had the same warmup and were 250/350 previous. As far as I know it was never an issue of balance. It was more one of planning. Managing your heals per your targets needs and you mana pool.

Guardian Angel:
I really can't agree with guardian angel being buffed. Even if it costs health, I don't think it is balanced. I think you underestimate how strong invulnerability is. Regardless of whether or not players can use skills, they can still left click, and they can still move. A long invuln period is out of the question while they still have the ability to do these things.

I agree it's possible that one way or the other could be unbalanced and I believe that if we can get some 2v2 3v3 tests going it will become more evident how much so either way.

Clerics w/Swords:
I don't like this because of the weapon enchants. Fire Aspects, Sharpness, and Knockback. These are all very powerful enchants that I don't feel comfortable with Clerics having. Not sure what Kainzo or anyone elses thoughts are on this, but I'm personally against it.

I thought out the sharpness point which is why I suggested dropping the damage by 4 points which would even out a sharpness IV enchant so it does no more then normal attacks with a hoe.

As far as KB and FA all classes already have this ability when they spec Smith. Which every serious healer/caster spec does if they PVP, so it's not adding any abilities that they don't already have. It's just giving them the choice of defending and upping their armor instead of attacking.

Anthema:
While I agree that this essentially a fairly useless skill that does not fit the class, it was something that was added in the Revamp and thus, I do not know whether or not Kainzo is wanting us to tweak this. He intended for it to be a long warmup ability, and we've already reduced it once before. Reducing it any further removed the purpose of it's creation, and thus, I think we need to speak to Kainzo first before we touch it.

I understand it's not meant to be cast all the time as an offensive spell like Smite but as I said it's still not usable in any effective manner. If the intent is to keep it as some timed backup damage then drop the warmup down and increase the cooldown to 60s or 120s.

That should at least make it situationally usable.

One thing Id' like to point out here, is that in the previous revamp, we saw it very clearly how much of a terrible idea increasing warmups/ranges was. We did this a tiny bit, but in general, long warmups are not fun. They don't work. Herocraft is too fast paced, and too filled with interupts/burst damage for these kinds of skills to exist--at least for damaging abilities. Long warmups on heals / utility skills are fine, but when it comes to damage, we really can't be bothered to use these kinds of skills. It just doesn't work.

Just my 2 cents there.

Mystic Changes:
I can make these changes to Soothe/Chloroblast, but we were thinking about changing Chlorobon into another HoT effect, so I'm gonna skip that stuff for now.

The more HoTs the better I suppose, but if push comes to shove I think it would balance better to make the changes I suggested if the HoTs idea does not finish in time.

It would be worth testing anyhow.

Chakra:
The issue with Chakra isn't the heal, but the dispel. Dispel is a very very very powerful tool that I believe is given away too freely on Herocraft. One Disciple effectively makes a Necromancer/Pyromancer/(current)Bloodmage completely useless. And while they won't completely gimp a Samurai, being able to remove both Disgrace and MortalWound is absolutely ludicrous. If I could have it my way, I would remove dispel from Chakra completely. It just isn't fair to other classes.

This effect is only worsened when you have multiple Disciples in the party. 2-3 classes with an 8 second 100 health AoE heal that dispells 2 debuffs is pretty insane. Because of this, I do not think the range should be increased. If you are wanting to increase the range, I believe either the cooldown or dispel effect should be removed completely. Most Disciples however are of the opinion that "Chakra is what makes the class". For this reason, I don't think we can really get away with removing the dispel. To he honest, I'd like to see Kainzo's thoughts on the Chakra situation.

I can see where you are coming from here. A smaller range would force the group members closer to the Disciple to get their heals and the debuff removed but it pulls the healing distance so far from the other classes.

What about decreasing it to 1 debuff and keeping it at 10 blocks? I think a little testing on this should be pretty evident.

Eldrylars · Jun 3, 2013

Stuff that's in the pipeline, but not finished:

Reworking Bloodbage.
Reworking Chlorobon.
Possible tweaks / additions to Pyromancer.

I love slips like this!

Delfofthebla · Jun 3, 2013

Eldrylars said:
I love slips like this!

whoops,

Eldrylars · Jun 3, 2013

Regarding Rangers.

I know there is a lot in the works including a huge potential overhaul with the new plugin.
Is this going to be out anytime soon or can we look at other ways to give Ranger a bit of a boost or change?

I think the largest part of Rangers shortcomings are from armor based damage reductions and lack of group skills.

Against a heavily armored class or any class wielding a sword a Rangers attack is very limited.

I know this is not the place for new skills but a couple possibilities that could be considered would be:

Passive armor penetration .5% per level. With a maximum of 32.5% armor penetration this would let Rangers do some damage against armored targets without raising their actual damage.
Against a Paladin, 32.5% armor penetration would increase a fully charged arrow to about 130 damage instead of 95ish. Unless the Paladin was blocking. Against a lower armor class it would seem less drastic only making small changes to damage or none.

Summon Wolf. Upon summoning just make it check wipe any previous summon

Delfofthebla · Jun 3, 2013

Eldrylars said:
Regarding Rangers.

I know there is a lot in the works including a huge potential overhaul with the new plugin.
Is this going to be out anytime soon or can we look at other ways to give Ranger a bit of a boost or change?

I think the largest part of Rangers shortcomings are from armor based damage reductions and lack of group skills.

Against a heavily armored class or any class wielding a sword a Rangers attack is very limited.

I know this is not the place for new skills but a couple possibilities that could be considered would be:

Passive armor penetration .5% per level. With a maximum of 32.5% armor penetration this would let Rangers do some damage against armored targets without raising their actual damage.
Against a Paladin, 32.5% armor penetration would increase a fully charged arrow to about 130 damage instead of 95ish. Unless the Paladin was blocking. Against a lower armor class it would seem less drastic only making small changes to damage or none.

Summon Wolf. Upon summoning just make it check wipe any previous summon

Not sure what the status is of that revamp. As far as I'm aware it isn't happening due to Kainzo not wanting to add in a new plugin. I'd like to talk with a few people about some things before I go changing any Ranger stuff, it's possible that we may do something bigger...

Eldrylars · Jun 3, 2013

No need to be cryptic here :rolleyes:

This is the best place to discuss things out of earshot so they can be figured out

yoIyo · Jun 4, 2013

Mystic
- Soothe cooldown decreased to 2 seconds (from 4).
- Soothe healing decreased to 115 (from 130).
- Soothe warmup decreased to 1 second (from 1.5).
- Chloroblast warmup decreased to 2 seconds (from 2.5).
- Chloroblast healing reduced to 220 (from 250).

I like what I see here, Mystics' getting lower cooldowns on healing, but i don't see why they should have the amount reduced.. Mystic was made the be the "Healer" of the 4 choices. Less tanky then a cleric; but heals for less? I agree that the heals might be spammable, but still risk of death during a fight is still there.

Cleric
- Remedy warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5)
- Remedy healing to 275 (from 250).
- SacredTouch warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5).
- SacredTouch healing increased to to 375 (from 350).

Healing amount increased should not be there; leave the class with higher warm-ups; but don't touch the amount healed. Clerics already have Guardian Angel/ Self Invuln; during a Guardian Angel an ally can be healed to near full hp.

Disiciple
- ForcePush mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).
- ForcePush damage reduced to 35 (from 70).
- ForcePull mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).
- ForcePull damage reduced to 35 (from 70).
- QuiveringPalm description has been fixed to report the correct duration.
- QuiveringPalm duration increased to 3.5 seconds (from 2.5).

As we all know I am a huge fan of Disciple... I understand that the class is strong for what it can do; but with all classes there is a weak point; You say pull/push is used for utility instead of damage; yet the 2 skills at most times are unreliable, more then half the time the Push is used the target does not move more then Half a Block; which could result in death; or pulling a target and they don't move towards you; I see the damage being 70 as an insurance for the skill not working properly. If the damage were reduced would it be possible to increase the velocity of the pull/push? If not; might as well get rid of the bread and butter skill of the class and give it something else. Delfofthebla

Warriors

The health on Dragoon @65 is currently 1048.
The health on Paladin @65 is currently 1078.
The health on Dreadknight @65 is 1046.
The health on Samurai is @65 is 1006.
What im getting at; Dragoon's right now are currently the 2nd tankiest class health wise; DK being so armor wise. As we all know dragoons are out shining Samurai's in damage and Dreadknights in Team fights. Dreadknights have lost their edge after losing SoulLeech in return getting Shadow/Harrow. Harrow isn't useful as it was planned out to be; If I wanted to target somebodies backside I would probably be a Ninja. As a tank there should be no reason to hit a target from behind. The only skills that keep this class somewhat viable in fights is Empathy/Decay/Harmtouch. After the Samurai classed received changes last patch I haven't seen a single one. Any ideas on how to fix this? I want to change how tanky this class is for the amount of utility/damage it provides along with the mana debuff it can do to a target. Any suggestions on how we can fix this?

Ninja

Ninja; I feel as if Ninja's are doing too much damage from the frontside when they are suppose to excel from being assassins..as of now ninja's can mow a target down from the front and even faster in the from the back as seen in Nuclear's video during a fight. I want to hit ninja's base damage. Make it so they need to have proper positioning for their Backstab proc to work its full potential. If we want PvP to last longer; make it so that certain classes can't make pop somebody in less then 4-6 seconds.

Ranger Eldrylars

I agree that Ranger lacks teamfight; With teammates running around it's almost impossible for them not to eat the arrows you are firing at opponents. As you suggested with an increase in armor penetration per level; this is not possible, sure you will have a Ranger hurting warrior specializations, but did you put leather targets into consideration? A ranger using Heartshot has the potential of 3-5 hitting any class wearing leather. Giving them armor pen isn't going to help.

victim130 · Jun 4, 2013

See Samurai is not horrible at this time, but it is being out-shined a lot. Not to mention most ranged classes are having way too easy a time fighting us, but that is to be expected to some extent. I was wondering if we might see Ninjas and Samurai having a stam reduction on their escape abilities? Currently, Samurai wastes about half his stam on imper which is generally not worth using to then be unable to combo correctly. That and with windwalk's reduction, we just get kited for days. Most of this came with the root change, but I hear that its giving most melee classes a hard time.

I'm not a healer guy, but I feel Mystics currently can sustain a whole group without effort. After talking with Dielan about the class I noticed him talk about a fight Newerth/TC had with Umbra a little bit ago. Not sure if it was self boasting or if he actually was sustaining the whole group without effort, but that was his claim. (Would be amazing to get 10v10s on test if that's even possible to confirm this)

As for Ranger, I would love to see the class get some love. Current problems I see are: Icearrow. It holds a retarded amount of slow per arrow, but is not always the easiest to land. This makes adding mobility very hard to do and keep the class balanced. Maybe make icearrow a one time shot with a decent cool down? Then they can get a disengage or speed buff style skill (Or something else mobility based)

Team fights. It lacks so much in fights to the point it is not useful at all. I feel that even duelists, while excelling at smaller numbers, should have some capabilities in team fights. Maybe an explosive arrow? Have it only do AoE damage based on velocity (If possible). This will allow them to be useful to some extent.

Eldrylars · Jun 4, 2013

Mystic
- Soothe cooldown decreased to 2 seconds (from 4).
- Soothe healing decreased to 115 (from 130).
- Soothe warmup decreased to 1 second (from 1.5).
- Chloroblast warmup decreased to 2 seconds (from 2.5).
- Chloroblast healing reduced to 220 (from 250).

I like what I see here, Mystics' getting lower cooldowns on healing, but i don't see why they should have the amount reduced.. Mystic was made the be the "Healer" of the 4 choices. Less tanky then a cleric; but heals for less? I agree that the heals might be spammable, but still risk of death during a fight is still there.

The idea is to give some separation with healing style while maintaining utility. Dropping down their warmup and giving the spell less healing power essentially making a Mystic the quicker healer is as far as I can tell balanced. Less cast time less health healed.

If we look at Kainzo's intended roles for Mystic and Cleric we see that the Roles are:

Mystic: Primary - HoTs / Secondary - Support

Cleric: Primary - Big Heals / Secondary - Tanky

I read HoTs as being fast and constant heals and Big Heals as actually being bigger then other classes. I have gone over this in heavy details as well as the fact that Cleric really is in some ways less Tanky then a current Mystic. Please refer to that information for a better breakdown.

Cleric
- Remedy warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5)
- Remedy healing to 275 (from 250).
- SacredTouch warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5).
- SacredTouch healing increased to to 375 (from 350).

Healing amount increased should not be there; leave the class with higher warm-ups; but don't touch the amount healed. Clerics already have Guardian Angel/ Self Invuln; during a Guardian Angel an ally can be healed to near full hp.

Clerics at this time are non existent. There is no reason to play one as they no longer have might, their heals are mostly shared with other healers and they no longer have GuardianAngel for heals. Self Invuln is usefull to absorb a couple swings but draws so much mana that in group fights you will run out of mana to fast to actually heal your party. I no longer use Guardian for almost anything as the only thing heal I can cast before it's effects are gone is group heal. I at this time I cannot even cast pray before the spell has warn off. "Guardian Angel an ally can be healed to near full hp." I am not sure how you are confused with this but after I cast guardian there is a 1s timer to cast another spell, by the time this timer has expired I have 2 seconds to cast a spell if I am spamming a hotkey. Thats enough time for a groupheal or a bandage. If I do cast Guardian+Groupheal that will drain me of 80 mana, which is a little less then half of my whole mana pool.

The build idea is to make Clerics time their spells better with a longer cast time(1 seconds is a lot longer in tight battles) but to have them more effective. This will use slightly less mana as they are getting a tiny bit more healing from their spells. Unfortunately without all the changes I has proposed with the values I suggested I don't see Clerics coming back into play for a while. I could be wrong but I would put money on it.

Disiciple
- ForcePush mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).
- ForcePush damage reduced to 35 (from 70).
- ForcePull mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).
- ForcePull damage reduced to 35 (from 70).
- QuiveringPalm description has been fixed to report the correct duration.
- QuiveringPalm duration increased to 3.5 seconds (from 2.5).

As we all know I am a huge fan of Disciple... I understand that the class is strong for what it can do; but with all classes there is a weak point; You say pull/push is used for utility instead of damage; yet the 2 skills at most times are unreliable, more then half the time the Push is used the target does not move more then Half a Block; which could result in death; or pulling a target and they don't move towards you; I see the damage being 70 as an insurance for the skill not working properly. If the damage were reduced would it be possible to increase the velocity of the pull/push? If not; might as well get rid of the bread and butter skill of the class and give it something else. Delfofthebla

I have no desire to put Disciple under the truck as I have always loved the class. But they do have insane burst right now for a healer class. I wish there was a simple way to ensure the KB worked all the time but I am not even sure what's breaking it so I can't even start to make suggestions on how to fix it.

Being a Disciple would you prefer the higher casting cost you have now to a damage reduction?

Ranger Eldrylars

I agree that Ranger lacks teamfight; With teammates running around it's almost impossible for them not to eat the arrows you are firing at opponents. As you suggested with an increase in armor penetration per level; this is not possible, sure you will have a Ranger hurting warrior specializations, but did you put leather targets into consideration? A ranger using Heartshot has the potential of 3-5 hitting any class wearing leather. Giving them armor pen isn't going to help.

Well to begin with armor penetration has diminishing returns to lesser armored foes so your worries about lightly armored opponents can be relieved.

32.5% armor penetration vs.

Paladin armor reduced from 72% to 49%

Sammy armor reduced from 52% to 35%

Mystic armor reduced from 32% to 21.5%

Naked armor reduced from 0% to 0%

As you can see, giving armor penetration instead of an overall increase in damage would allow a ranger to do a little more damage on a heavily armor target while barally effecting the lightly armored. Currently a Ranger with a fully charged arrow with heartshot hits a pally for about 100 damage on test. If the pally blocks with his sword it's reduced to 50 damage which is a 0% chance to win.

You are correct on the idea that this does not help group fights. I suppose that would still need to be looked at as a separate issue.

Although Delf has said that in non exacting words that Ranger is being replaced so I suppose at this time the conversation is moot.

Eldrylars · Jun 4, 2013

I'm not a healer guy, but I feel Mystics currently can sustain a whole group without effort. After talking with Dielan about the class I noticed him talk about a fight Newerth/TC had with Umbra a little bit ago. Not sure if it was self boasting or if he actually was sustaining the whole group without effort, but that was his claim. (Would be amazing to get 10v10s on test if that's even possible to confirm this)

Although I have not played a Mystic on live I have outlined how they are superior to all other healers especially Cleric in almost everyday right now. With having all the same heals as Cleric+Revive+Might+2 HoTs and then finish it off with Replenish for a free 135 mana bost over Clerics and Bloodmages every 2 minutes it's no wonder they are outshining. Add to that Invig, Bolt, Root and Port! Whew they are pretty awesome right now. In my thoughts on healers post I broke down how I would suggest balancing the healers amongst eachother.

The good and the bad of it is that the whole concept I proposed would only work well as a whole and not pieced together bits here and bits there. The problem is that as a whole it's pretty scary to look at, although I believe in action it would be much more balanced and would give all healers a place in the game.

Delfofthebla · Jun 4, 2013

yoIyo said:
Mystic

Soothe cooldown decreased to 2 seconds (from 4).

Soothe healing decreased to 115 (from 130).

Soothe warmup decreased to 1 second (from 1.5).

Chloroblast warmup decreased to 2 seconds (from 2.5).

Chloroblast healing reduced to 220 (from 250).

I like what I see here, Mystics' getting lower cooldowns on healing, but i don't see why they should have the amount reduced.. Mystic was made the be the "Healer" of the 4 choices. Less tanky then a cleric; but heals for less? I agree that the heals might be spammable, but still risk of death during a fight is still there.

Cleric

Remedy warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5)

Remedy healing to 275 (from 250).

SacredTouch warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5).

SacredTouch healing increased to to 375 (from 350).

Healing amount increased should not be there; leave the class with higher warm-ups; but don't touch the amount healed. Clerics already have Guardian Angel/ Self Invuln; during a Guardian Angel an ally can be healed to near full hp.

Disiciple

ForcePush mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).

ForcePush damage reduced to 35 (from 70).

ForcePull mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).

ForcePull damage reduced to 35 (from 70).

QuiveringPalm description has been fixed to report the correct duration.

QuiveringPalm duration increased to 3.5 seconds (from 2.5).

As we all know I am a huge fan of Disciple... I understand that the class is strong for what it can do; but with all classes there is a weak point; You say pull/push is used for utility instead of damage; yet the 2 skills at most times are unreliable, more then half the time the Push is used the target does not move more then Half a Block; which could result in death; or pulling a target and they don't move towards you; I see the damage being 70 as an insurance for the skill not working properly. If the damage were reduced would it be possible to increase the velocity of the pull/push? If not; might as well get rid of the bread and butter skill of the class and give it something else. Delfofthebla

Warriors

The health on Dragoon @65 is currently 1048.
The health on Paladin @65 is currently 1078.
The health on Dreadknight @65 is 1046.
The health on Samurai is @65 is 1006.
What im getting at; Dragoon's right now are currently the 2nd tankiest class health wise; DK being so armor wise. As we all know dragoons are out shining Samurai's in damage and Dreadknights in Team fights. Dreadknights have lost their edge after losing SoulLeech in return getting Shadow/Harrow. Harrow isn't useful as it was planned out to be; If I wanted to target somebodies backside I would probably be a Ninja. As a tank there should be no reason to hit a target from behind. The only skills that keep this class somewhat viable in fights is Empathy/Decay/Harmtouch. After the Samurai classed received changes last patch I haven't seen a single one. Any ideas on how to fix this? I want to change how tanky this class is for the amount of utility/damage it provides along with the mana debuff it can do to a target. Any suggestions on how we can fix this?

Ninja

Ninja; I feel as if Ninja's are doing too much damage from the frontside when they are suppose to excel from being assassins..as of now ninja's can mow a target down from the front and even faster in the from the back as seen in Nuclear's video during a fight. I want to hit ninja's base damage. Make it so they need to have proper positioning for their Backstab proc to work its full potential. If we want PvP to last longer; make it so that certain classes can't make pop somebody in less then 4-6 seconds.

Ranger Eldrylars

I agree that Ranger lacks teamfight; With teammates running around it's almost impossible for them not to eat the arrows you are firing at opponents. As you suggested with an increase in armor penetration per level; this is not possible, sure you will have a Ranger hurting warrior specializations, but did you put leather targets into consideration? A ranger using Heartshot has the potential of 3-5 hitting any class wearing leather. Giving them armor pen isn't going to help.

Mystic:
I don't really agree that Mystic is supposed to be -the- healer out of the 4. I'd like to stick with Eldrylars' suggestions on this one until we have more input from teamfights. I'm also under the impression that they are already the second strongest, or the strongest itself.

Cleric:
Perhaps you're right here, but to be honest, it's hard for me to gauge how strong they are with these changes. The things that I've heard from the clerics I know is that while yes, they have very powerful heals, they run out of mana very rapidly in a fight, and usually cannot sustain that many people before they are essentially taken out of the fight.

As Eldry has been suggesting, I'd really like to see how these work with a group fight on the test server, if possible.

Disciple:
Here's the thing about Disciple. It does way too much damage for the amount of support and utility it brings. You have AoE damage with small knockback, you have a debuff that lets party members deal more damage, you have a silence, you can purge debuffs, you can heal, you can resurrect yourself and you of course, have push/pull.

Now, I understand that forcepush/forcepull aren't very reliable. Even without playing the class, I can attest that it's probably the shittest thing ever. Herocraft is unfortunately notorious for giving velocity based skills nocheat/lag issues, and causing these skills to not function.

When ForcePush works properly, it pushes FAR.
When ForcePull works properly, it pulls you FAR.

Problem is, they don't always work properly, and there isn't anything we can do about that. Increasing the velocity is likely to only cause it to rubberband them more, which is counterproductive.

Overall, I'd like Disciple damage reduced, utility maintained. I think this is damage reduction on the force skills to be a good step in the right direction. If you believe other costs/damage values of abilities should be altered to make this happen, let us know. You know the class better than most of us, so I think you should be able to tell us what needs to happen to make this a reality.

Warriors:
Cleave/Bash should be reduced in damage. If the armor penetration bug isn't going to be fixed, we need to take action against these abilities.

Dreadknights:
I've got nothin here to be honest. It's not as though the class is bad per se, it's just not..comfortable. It's hard to get your skills off, and you often spend too much time trying to do so. This is a lot of time wasted that doesn't need to be wasted, and there isn't really anything we can do about it.

I tried to increase the ranges on Harrow/Shadowstep to make them more comfortable for the DK, but it just didn't work out as well as I'd hoped. I really don't have any other ideas that would work without destroying the concepts behind the skills.

Dragoons:
I agree that they are doing too much damage now. I was wanting to make their skills more viable in teamfights/small skirmishes, so this was somewhat intended, but they are definitely doing more damage than I can agree with.

To be honest, I've actually already hit Dragoon with the bat, just haven't typed up the changelog for it/put restarted test yet.

Here's what I'm thinking. Lower their HP to be just a little bit below DK, and then lower their damage output by a slight amount. Particularly in cleave/lunarlance.

Ninja:
I was a little hesitant to agree to this a couple weeks ago, but I've definitely been seeing this more lately. They're on oldschool samurai levels of strength in a frontal fight, and I don't like that either. What do you think for a number reduction? 3? 5? 10?

victim130 said:
See Samurai is not horrible at this time, but it is being out-shined a lot. Not to mention most ranged classes are having way too easy a time fighting us, but that is to be expected to some extent. I was wondering if we might see Ninjas and Samurai having a stam reduction on their escape abilities? Currently, Samurai wastes about half his stam on imper which is generally not worth using to then be unable to combo correctly. That and with windwalk's reduction, we just get kited for days. Most of this came with the root change, but I hear that its giving most melee classes a hard time.

I agree that both Ninja and Samurai have insanely high costs for their escape-breaking abilities. These are already limited by cooldown, and it seems a tad silly for them to be limited by stamina as well. Hell, most of the time I used EscapeArtist on Ninja, I would be running the same speed as I was before, simply because I couldn't sprint after using the skill.

To address samurai directly, I think that the reason we don't see that many right now is yes, they are being outshined by other classes, but also because the playstyle of the current samurai revolves around "boring" abilities. Cleave/AsuraSlash is the primary combo, and I'd like to take them both out of the equation. We need Disgrace and MortalWound to be the bread and butter, and then AsuraSlash should be a filler. Cleave should be a situational teamfight/PvE skill, not their main combo.

Ranger Stuff

It is not possible to "partially" penetrate armor. You either pierce all of it, or none of it. Even that last part isn't even true though, due to the bug. *grumble*

Delfofthebla · Jun 4, 2013

Current Changelog:

Runeblade
- IceRune cooldown increased to 10 seconds (from 8).
- Rune Application was incorrectly set to 750ms on the test server. This has been corrected to 1 second.
Ninja
- EscapeArtist stamina cost reduced to 6 (from 10).
- Backstab chance to apply when not sneaking increased to 40% (from 20).
  (Chance to backstab while sneaking is unchanged.)
- Base damage with swords has been reduced.
  - Wooden Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 45 (from 51).
  - Stone Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 62 (from 73).
  - Iron Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 82 (from 94).
  - Diamond Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 96 (from 105).
  - Gold Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 108 (from 122).
Mystic
- Soothe cooldown decreased to 2 seconds (from 4).
- Soothe healing decreased to 115 (from 130).
- Soothe warmup decreased to 1 second (from 1.5).
- Chloroblast warmup decreased to 2 seconds (from 2.5).
- Chloroblast healing reduced to 220 (from 250).
Cleric
- Remedy warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5)
- Remedy healing to 275 (from 250).
- SacredTouch warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5).
- SacredTouch healing increased to to 375 (from 350).
Disiciple
- ForcePush mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).
- ForcePush damage reduced to 35 (from 70).
- ForcePull mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).
- ForcePull damage reduced to 35 (from 70).
- QuiveringPalm description has been fixed to report the correct duration.
- QuiveringPalm duration increased to 3.5 seconds (from 2.5).
Warriors
- Bash base damage reduced to 59 (from 89).
- Cleave damage multiplier reduced to 100% (from 150).
Paladin
- SheildReflect description has been improved to be more...descriptive.
- ShieldReflect now properly reflects DoT skill damage.
Dragoon
- LunarLance damage reduced to 95 (from 110).
- LunarLance Mana-Burn reduced to 18 (from 20).
- Impale slowness value reduced to 3 (from 4).
  (Impale was originally intended to be slowness 2. It was incorrectly upgraded to 4 at some point).
Samurai
- Moved a few skills around to make leveling / fighting at low levels a smoother experience.
- MortalWound tickrate reduced to 5 seconds (from 7).
- MortalWound duration reduced to 15 seconds (from 21).
- MortalWound damage per tick increased to 34 (from 33).
  (Overall damage increased by 4. DoT ticks slightly faster, but lasts for a shorter time.)
- Disgrace tickrate reduced to 5 seconds (from 7).
- Disgrace duration reduced to 15 seconds (from 21).(Overall damage is unchanged. DoT ticks slightly faster, but lasts for a shorter time.)
- Impermanence stamina cost reduced to 6 (from 10).
- AsuraSlash stamina cost increased to 8 (from 6).

Ninja:
The lower base damage is pretty harsh, but I believe it was necessary. I'm hoping that the increased proc-chance of non-sneak backstabs will help keep them a useful class for teamfights.

Now, something I'm somewhat interested in, is making smoke a more stable ability. This was suggested here: http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/another-ninja-suggestion.38674/ and I think it's a good idea.

Anyone have any thoughts / number suggestions for this?

Warriors:
These are necessary changes until the bug gets fixed. We might wish to revert these if/when the bug does get fixed.

Dragoon:
Reduced damage on cleave, reduced effectiveness of lunarlance, and slightly lower HP. This should hopefully be sufficient enough to bring them back down to their previous level, while still retaining their ability to influence a teamfight.

Samurai:
I understand that Kainzo reduced the tickrate of Samurai DoT effects to reduce the "machine-gun" effect that they have on players. I think this was a good idea, and a good move. However, I think he may have went just a tad overboard on the tickrates. I've reduced them to ticking every 5 seconds, rather than every 7. I believe this will give them the strength they need to be put back into the main rotation, without making the skills too overbearing for players.

This, combined with the reduced damage on cleave, and increased stamina cost on asuraslash, should bring the Samurai back to it's previous state. I'd like to get some Samurai's on test to try this out first though, as it isn't guaranteed to work as nicely as I'm hoping.

Delfofthebla · Jun 4, 2013

So, I was playing around with some people on test trying to give Mystic a good go-over. This class is...really strong. Additionally, they have the most abilities out of all classes. A whopping 3 pages, 19 skills. (18 if you don't count scan)

Their heals are fast. Their skills are cheap. Their skills are powerful. With JUST soothe and chloroblast, they can negate almost all damage dealt on individual targets. Their mana almost never seems to deplete, and they never have to worry about heals being on cooldown. It isn't right, and it isn't balanced. I'm pretty confident that what Victim heard from Dielan was pretty spot on. I don't see them having much trouble keeping a whole group up.

Their heals are really strong and reliable, their utility skills are really cool and useful, and to top it off, they bring a bit of combat aid with bolt/entangle.

I'm going to increase the mana costs/cooldowns on their heals, so that they cannot endlessly heal themselves (or a group) without ever even having to even use replenish.

I am also going to take Eldrylar's previous suggestion on Replenish for Mystics. It will now replenishes about 100 mana, and is on a 5 minute cooldown.

Now, I know I said that we could rework chlorobon to be a HoT effect, but I'll be frank, I wasn't aware that they already had 2 HoT's available. I knew they had HealingBloom, but I'd never actually seen Rejuvenate used before. (Mostly because I never see mystics, but that's besides the point).

I'm thinking they should have some skills removed. Namely, Revive/Chlorobon.

Reasoning:
Not all healers need a revive. It's a really strong ability, and nice to have, but I feel as though it's unnecessary fluff to the class when it already has so much going for it. They port, they root, they bolt, they AoE HoT, they HoT, they have spammable single target heals, they give stamina, they cure poisons, they cure withering, they give their party might. They do not need a revive on top of all of that.

Chlorobon is currently their best heal, but that's due to us not touching it in the last patch. Between Soothe, Rejuvenate, HealingBloom, and Chloroblast, I feel as though they have enough healing potential already. With the utility/damage/support they provide, there is no need for them to have a 5th heal. This is why I think we should simply remove it all together.

So, here's what I'm thinking of doing. Naturally, we can keep tweaking this over the week, but I wanna throw this on test for now and see how it plays.

Code:

Changes since last update
 
Mystic:
* Moved a few skills around to make leveling / fighting at low levels a smoother experience.
* Soothe mana cost increased to 10 (from 7).
* Soothe cooldown increased to 3 seconds (from 2).
* Chloroblast mana cost increased to 22 (from 18).
* Entangle mana cost increased to 18 (from 15) ------- This is 2 more than Wizard Entangle.
* Rejuvenate now has a 1 second warmup.
* Rejuvenate cooldown increased to 18 (from 15).
* Replenish mana restoration reduced to 52% (from 1000). --------- This is 100 mana at lvl 65
* Removed Chlorobon
* Removed Revive
 
Samurai:
Tweaked damage numbers on DoT's, look at the changelog below for details.
 
Cleric:
Reduced healing on SacredWord/Remedy, kept warmup.
 
(These heals are still really strong, I'm not comfortable with the high numbers.)
 
Disciple:
Reduced forcepush/pull stamina by 1. Playing around with it, this may not be final.

-------------------------------
Actual Full Changelog:

Runeblade
- IceRune cooldown increased to 10 seconds (from 8).
- Rune Application was incorrectly set to 750ms on the test server. This has been corrected to 1 second.
Ninja
- EscapeArtist stamina cost reduced to 6 (from 10).
- Backstab chance to apply when not sneaking increased to 40% (from 20).
  (Chance to backstab while sneaking is unchanged.)
- Base damage with swords has been reduced.
  - Wooden Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 45 (from 51).
  - Stone Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 62 (from 73).
  - Iron Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 82 (from 94).
  - Diamond Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 96 (from 105).
  - Gold Sword damage (by level 65) reduced to 108 (from 122).
Mystic
- Moved a few skills around to make leveling / fighting at low levels a smoother experience.
- Soothe cooldown decreased to 3 seconds (from 4).
- Soothe healing decreased to 115 (from 130).
- Soothe mana cost increased to 10 (from 7).
- Soothe warmup decreased to 1 second (from 1.5).
- Chloroblast warmup decreased to 2 seconds (from 2.5).
- Chloroblast healing reduced to 210 (from 250).
- Chloroblast mana cost increased to 22 (from 18).
- Entangle mana cost increased to 18 (from 15).
- Rejuvenate now has a 1 second warmup.
- Rejuvenate cooldown increased to 18 (from 15).
- Replenish mana restoration reduced to 52% (from 1000). --------- This is about 102 mana at lvl 65
- Removed Chlorobon.
- Removed Revive.
Cleric
- Remedy warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5)
- Remedy healing to 265 (from 250).
- SacredTouch warmup increased to 3 seconds (from 2.5).
- SacredTouch healing increased to to 365 (from 350).
Disiciple
- ForcePush mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).
- ForcePush damage reduced to 35 (from 70).
- ForcePush stamina cost reduced to 3 (from 4).
- ForcePull mana cost reduced to 10 (from 15).
- ForcePull damage reduced to 35 (from 70).
- ForcePull stamina cost reduced to 3 (from 4).
- QuiveringPalm description has been fixed to report the correct duration.
- QuiveringPalm duration increased to 3.5 seconds (from 2.5).
Warriors
- Bash base damage reduced to 59 (from 89).
- Cleave damage multiplier reduced to 100% (from 150).
Paladin
- SheildReflect description has been improved to be more...descriptive.
- ShieldReflect now properly reflects DoT skill damage.
Dragoon
- LunarLance damage reduced to 95 (from 110).
- LunarLance Mana-Burn reduced to 18 (from 20).
- Impale slowness value reduced to 3 (from 4).
  (Impale was originally intended to be slowness 2. It was incorrectly upgraded to 4 at some point).
Samurai
- Moved a few skills around to make leveling / fighting at low levels a smoother experience.
- MortalWound tickrate reduced to 5 seconds (from 7).
- MortalWound duration reduced to 15 seconds (from 21).
- MortalWound damage per tick increased to 34 (from 33).
  (Overall damage is unchanged. DoT ticks slightly faster, but lasts for a shorter time.)
- Disgrace tickrate reduced to 5 seconds (from 7).
- Disgrace duration reduced to 15 seconds (from 21).
  (Overall damage reduced from 198 to 183. DoT ticks slightly faster, but lasts for a shorter time.)
- Impermanence stamina cost reduced to 6 (from 10).
- AsuraSlash stamina cost increased to 8 (from 6).

Eldrylars · Jun 4, 2013

Did you have the information on your plans for Bloodmage to look over?

Also keep in mind that the only thing that Clerics can do right now is heal and absorb damage. They have no real means of damage or separate support. Although I am interested to see the effects of stronger heals what about do you think about a slight shift from my previous position.

Mystic:

Finish remaking Chlorobon into a HoT

Remove Cloroblast

Reduce Rejuvenates cooldown back to 10s

Remove Rejuvenates warm up or go .5s

Cleric:

Add the equivalent of the faster casting weaker heals.

This would give the Mystic 3 HoTs and take it down to one quick casting direct heal.
It's a spur of the moment thought and I did not line it all up but as a Cleric only real abilities are heal and since they only have 3 functional heals + group heal, this would at least give them the most heals to work with. It would be limiting with the Clerics mana pool and would force the Cleric to choose his heals situation ally. Quicker/Weaker heals when someone is about to die and slower/more efficient heals when he has a second.

I will think on it more, but it would push both classes more into their roles.

Revamp #3

Haunted9899

Kainzo

The Disposable Hero

Haunted9899

Eldrylars

Delfofthebla

Delfofthebla

Eldrylars

Eldrylars

Delfofthebla

Eldrylars

Delfofthebla

Eldrylars

yoIyo

Obsidian

victim130

Eldrylars

Eldrylars

Delfofthebla

Delfofthebla

Delfofthebla

Eldrylars