Patch 2.77

[Razael6]

Sorry offtopic, but stronghold delete sig modified from under your sig...

 

[strongholdx]

I can't Its linked to my Fan Fiction and that and the picture equal two links which is agaibnst rules for sigs, i don't think its that bad, nor does it bother me

 

[Dielan9999]

So what you're saying here is that even though its illegal to join a town wih the intention to steal/grief/fuck someone over it is still perfectly acceptable? If so please make a clarification in the rules. I get it that we shouldn't be cheap and use LWCs and all that jazz, but I'm more conserned on the context of the rule. Is it, or is it not illegal?

I do believe, the malicious intent rule is intended to protect towns from griefers.

It's one thing to join a town and steal from it, that's your reputation on the chopping block. However it's a completely different thing to apply to the town with the impregnable fortress and burn the gates down to let raiders in, when otherwise they could not enter.

 

[strongholdx]

I do believe, the malicious intent rule is intended to protect towns from griefers.

Then the rules should state that. Kind of something like

"Joining a town with the intention of breaking blocks or otherwise gaining access to regions for reasons other than participating in day to day town activities is strictly prohibited"

 

[GraRona]

Nice. This patch seems like a good one.

Now Imma iron ass blade.

 

[Dielan9999]

Then the rules should state that. Kind of something like

"Joining a town with the intention of breaking blocks or otherwise gaining access to regions for reasons other than participating in day to day town activities is strictly prohibited"

Hm I think that's too powerful. You shouldn't be able to use the rules to ban people just because they don't fit into the day to day activities. It's probably not what you meant but I just don't like that wording.

Also:

3.2 Maliciously destroying blocks is illegal.​

3.2.1 Any attempt to join a town for malicious purposes is strictly prohibited.​

3.3 Looting chests is legal.​

3.3.1 Looting chests inside townhalls is legal.​

Notice the malicious intent lines come first. Then it says the looting of chests is legal. It gives an exception to an all encompassing statement.

Like, "YOU CAN'T DO ANY OF THIS!"

"but this one thing is ok."

 

[strongholdx]

Yes, Taking things from chests is illegal. here is what I want to know:

If person X joins town A with the intent to gain access to regions simply so they may steal stuff or let some other players in ect, is it Town A's fault for letting this person in or Person X's fault for being a douche bag and will there be consequences?

I'm totaly for the looting of chests, that's hardcore, but people should not be able to say 'Hey I want to join your town' and sometimes even go through a screening process, get region access, and then fuck the town over. The administration should be all like 'Stop right there criminal scum you've violated the law, your stolen goods are now forfit!!'

The common argument is 'you should watch who you recruit' or 'be careful, you're just to stupid'. Thats BULLSHIT - 10 bucks says I can make an alt account (If they were leagal), waltz into any old town, ask to join it, be let in, and fuck them over within 24 hours. I've seen it happen, and I've done the first half (Before alts were banned)

In conclusion, the rule needs to be laid flat, its like the right to bear arms right now, you can take it a bunch of different ways. The rules need to tell us what we CAN and CAN NOT do, not what we MIGHT be able to, and MIGHT NOT be able to.

This really isn't that hard to understand is it?

 

[Dielan9999]

You have a really good argument here stronghold. However I believe the rules are a little more clear than you believe.

You said:

In conclusion, the rule needs to be laid flat, its like the right to bear arms right now, you can take it a bunch of different ways. The rules need to tell us what we CAN and CAN NOT do, not what we MIGHT be able to, and MIGHT NOT be able to.

Whereas, I think lines 3.2, and 3.2.1

3.2 Maliciously destroying blocks is illegal.​

3.2.1 Any attempt to join a town for malicious purposes is strictly prohibited.​

Say that you CAN NOT break blocks inside of towns for malicious purposes. Those purposes can be alot of bad things. Like letting raiders in, or just plain griefing.

Also lines 3.3, and 3.3.1

3.3 Looting chests is legal.​

3.3.1 Looting chests inside townhalls is legal.​

Clearly says you CAN take things from your own town. Even if you joined the town just to do that. The township system will be providing cheap LWCs to mayors and high limits. There shouldn't be anything worth stealing in your town that a new recruit can get to. Also [GUIDE]s like yourself and I can check these chests for the identity of the thief, hopefully before they pack up and leave town. When Spire found out their town thief they made his home into a prison of iron bars and killed him at every escape attempt while they built it. I think that's fair to do.

I think the new town theft rule and LWC bonuses balance each other out. If the town is doing well and has the money, the townspeople will prosper and not get robbed thanks to both regions and LWC together.

I agree with you that you can't just be expected to recruit more carefully. That IS bullshit. I also agree with you that it is very sketchy to allow town theft, and not allow malicious intents like espionage, when alot of town thefts are set up by other towns via spies. It is unfortunate most of these spies were alts who hopefully will lead to more bans, however there are towns out there that will encourage a potential thief to take from his/her town he/she is unhappy with and join them instead. That is also common. Hence the sketchy-ness. However disregarding alt accounts, it's the thief's reputation that's at stake. Alot of aspiring players SHOULDN'T want to risk that. They will learn the hard way, and others will hopefully learn form those people's mistakes.

 

[strongholdx]

Sorry Dielan, but I'm calling bullshit on this one

Say that you CAN NOT break blocks inside of towns for malicious purposes. Those purposes can be alot of bad things. Like letting raiders in, or just plain griefing.

No, you just assume that, they don't actually say this

Clearly says you CAN take things from your own town. Even if you joined the town just to do that.

more assumptions

This is what I was getting at before, anyone can take it a multitude of ways. You clearly see one thing while I see annother. Its like abstract art. I don't like to talk about it and it makes my head hurt.

I'm looking out for the little guy who looks at it the way I do, and when he gets his shit robbed, he calls the administration in so they can tell him he is in the wrong for not protecting his stuff. He cant be penalized for not understanding the rules because they hadn't been laid out clearly.

It's like if I tell you to 'do your chores' you have no idea what the fuck to do, but if I say 'do the dishes and clean your room' you will then understand what I mean. If I left the task unexplained, I can't fairly get mad at you or punish you because it was my fault, not yours.

You should be accountable for protecting your items - and the administarion should be accountable for making the rules understanable by all

 

[Dielan9999]

Aye. I can't argue that logic.

Perhaps the rules as they are do protect you from town theft, or atleast from people joining your town for the sole purpose of robbing, or to enable robbery from outside the region list.

However all instances of town theft lately have ended in the response, "get an LWC". Or something along those lines. That leads me to believe that LWCs are the only real protection form all kinds of theft. As though there is multiple levels of protection, like that region you pay taxes for being the first level (or perhaps the second), and LWC being the second level (or perhaps the first).

We really can't know until the rules are clarified...yet again. However I have no doubts that the concept of using LWC to stop theft even in a region isn't going away. Weather or not how thieves go about getting to the goods and the legality of it seems to still be up in the air.

EDIT: Just take a look at the things Kainzo has said earlier in this very topic. He pretty much IS the rules in the opinion of many.

 

[strongholdx]

Lol I love you Dielan, and I'm just stating my opinion, after all, we do live in Kainzocraft now don't we? I'm just looking out for the little guy, and I firmly beleieve that a rule that isn't defined as best as possible is a bad rule

I'm not going to argue it, I'm just stating what I think.

 

[Dielan9999]

Lol I love you Dielan, and I'm just stating my opinion, after all, we do live in Kainzocraft now don't we? I'm just looking out for the little guy, and I firmly beleieve that a rule that isn't defined as best as possible is a bad rule

I'm not going to argue it, I'm just stating what I think.

Yeah, as a [GUIDE], I can check chests for mayors of towns and give them the name if it's a town member. After that it isn't my problem. lol

 

[Kainzo]

Lol I love you Dielan, and I'm just stating my opinion, after all, we do live in Kainzocraft now don't we? I'm just looking out for the little guy, and I firmly beleieve that a rule that isn't defined as best as possible is a bad rule

I'm not going to argue it, I'm just stating what I think.

You play on a hardcore server named Herocraft. We can easily make protections (all chests) in a town unreachable - however this does not solve any problems - this brings us back to the last map where EVERYTHING was regioned EVERYONE had LWC and there was virtually no PVP at all.

We want to have all spheres of gameplay - this does include robbery.

Do I want people to undermine the town system by joining - removing blocks (to steal) and then leaving? NO
Do I want towns to think that DIRT = ultimate protection, NO
Do I want players to work for their goods by both purchasing LWC'/Regions/Sneaking into areas that lazy players dont protect to rob them, YES

Townships (and the community largely) should be self policing when it comes to these things. I do want to find a method to have personal regions without Townships to negate the majority of this - but even then that has risk to and ultimately it boils down to just the contents in chests. DONT STORE RARE ITEMS IN DIRT COVERED CHESTS BECAUSE IT IS NOT SECURE FROM OTHERS OUTSIDE YOUR REGION.

We are HARDCORE we are not a softcore server with infinite protection and outrageous donor perks - that system died when Heroes came in and I don't really care to see it come back even if more people would donate for it.

 

[Dielan9999]

I agree with you here @Kainzo . I'm liking the new system we have here on Zeal more than on Sanctum. There is more excitement to be had. More thrill. More risk. More hardcore.

That's what brought us all here in the first place, now we practice what we preach more so than before. I actually really like it!

 

[Mitchodak]

I like poptarts

 

[strongholdx]

I just wanted a clarification on the rules ._.

 

[Valyou3]

Soo many patches comming out!

 

[AzenYumCha]

What, Raw Fish?
We fight - with Raw Fish!?

what are you trying to get through here!? xDD
'Hey, I'm AzenYumCha. I murder people with a dead fish!'

*fish-slaps victim across the face*

 

[Neotetro]

Is this patch active?

 

[Dielan9999]

Is this patch active?

I don't think so. It would say on the homepage.

So no mayor LWCs yet! But they'rea comin'.