Paladins/other balance things

[shrimpy77]

But you said Dreadknight was OP, "I know it's OP".
I'm done.
Let's shush before this gets out of hand.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

.... But I never said it wasn't OP? ;-; what can I do to help you realize that I said it was OP multiple times!?

 

[whitemagehealu]

.... But I never said it wasn't OP? ;-; what can I do to help you realize that I said it was OP multiple times!?

Nerfing Drainsoul isn't going to make DK notably less OP...

 

[ShizzDawgg]

I agree with White, even before a dreadknight can use drainsoul they still have a respectable damage output, I say remove diamond boots as well, they're supposed to be tanky, but based on their damage output, still a bit op even with the drainsoul nerf.

 

[Digger360]

DK = tank. They're not going to take away the tank, AND the damage output.

 

[Diffuse]

I don't really get where the idea that they were meant to be tanks came from, I've always just thought of them as tanky casters. In terms of tank I think it should be pally > dragoon > DK > sammy.

Even if dreadknights are meant to be tanks then why do they do the second most damage of the warrior specs while outclassing dragoons and samurais in tankyness by a huge amount?

 

[GreekCrackShot]

I agree with White, even before a dreadknight can use drainsoul they still have a respectable damage output, I say remove diamond boots as well, they're supposed to be tanky, but based on their damage output, still a bit op even with the drainsoul nerf.

Casters can kill me pretty easy now with the buff of fireball. Only reason why you see me win against them is that I am rich, therefore can afford armor enchantments and potions that can literally give me back 95 hp

 

[GreekCrackShot]

I don't really get where the idea that they were meant to be tanks came from, I've always just thought of them as tanky casters. In terms of tank I think it should be pally > dragoon > DK > sammy.

Even if dreadknights are meant to be tanks then why do they do the second most damage of the warrior specs while outclassing dragoons and samurais in tankyness by a huge amount?

Dreadknights have more health, better armor and do less damage. Paladins have more health, better armor and do less damage the dks. Dragoons have less good armor, less hp, but do more dmg, smaurais have the least armor, and health, but do the most dmg.

In my mind, without having to think twice, the tanking order is Pally > DK > Dragoon > Samurai.

 

[shrimpy77]

I'd like to hear output from a non-DK saying they're not OP, cause that I'm not really seeing.

 

[ShizzDawgg]

Dreadknights have more health, better armor and do less damage. Paladins have more health, better armor and do less damage the dks. Dragoons have less good armor, less hp, but do more dmg, smaurais have the least armor, and health, but do the most dmg.

In my mind, without having to think twice, the tanking order is Pally > DK > Dragoon > Samurai.

Doesn't mean they can't be op even if they are supposed to be somewhat of a tank class, w/o the drainsoul nerf.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

I'd like to hear output from a non-DK saying they're not OP, cause that I'm not really seeing.

Here's a DK, saying they're OP, that should be enough lol.... And Kainzo is fixing Drainsoul, so once that comes we'll see how OP they are and go from there. The changes Diffuse wanted were too radical and risky to just throw in.

 

[Predator2010]

Here's a DK, saying they're OP, that should be enough lol.... And Kainzo is fixing Drainsoul, so once that comes we'll see how OP they are and go from there. The changes Diffuse wanted were too radical and risky to just throw in.

Still in heavy editing, sure theyll be balanced soon.

 

[Diffuse]

Here's a DK, saying they're OP, that should be enough lol.... And Kainzo is fixing Drainsoul, so once that comes we'll see how OP they are and go from there. The changes Diffuse wanted were too radical and risky to just throw in.

I agree somewhat and have stated the same thing before. We should let this thread die until we see what changes do what and how much further we need to go if at all. If you want to keep discussing just say so but otherwise I'll ask for a lock.

Btw I find it interesting how the thread originally was about the invincibility of paladins and quickly turned into a geomancer and DK hate thread.

 

[Dielan9999]

Newsflash: Caster's fireball (the bread and butter) ignores armor now. That's 20 damage a hit and spamable (to some extent)


Wanna kill a DK like @GreekCrackShot ? Make friends with some spec'd casters (just don't make friends with me, i can't use become death on him to run away like a sissy)

 

[GreekCrackShot]

Newsflash: Caster's fireball (the bread and butter) ignores armor now. That's 20 damage a hit and spamable (to some extent)


Wanna kill a DK like @GreekCrackShot ? Make friends with some spec'd casters (just don't make friends with me, i can't use become death on him to run away like a sissy)

I got raped by an unarmed geomancer yesterday, and I had potions.... fireball is crazy. Deep freeze + fireball + icebolt = sudden death

Oddly, the death scared me so badly I logged out when I died and logged back in with all my health in the same exact spot then proceeded to harmtouch him and kill him instantly

 

[Dielan9999]

an unarmed geomancer

Well if you think about it, only the Beguiler does respectable melee damage(like 5 dmg with diamond), so with keybinds a caster is just as deadly unarmed and fresh from the graveyard as they are in their hometown defending against a raid party.



However my point still stands that it's not hopeless when you face a DK You just need a big damage dealing friend to take him down if your class doesn't quite cut it. People just need to relax!

 

[Digger360]

Certain technique to killing Spec'd casters...It requires a certain amount of lag, but even if you pull it off, your going to be just about dead. Caster classes need to risk bread, while warriors need to risk expensive armor and weapons. Whats the point in armor if 1/2 the players you meet just strike though it? Even without root/deepfreeze Caster spec's are quite lethal, but with them, it allows them to obliterate ANY class.

 

[Dielan9999]

if 1/2 the players you meet

I think 1/2 the players is a pretty extreme estimate. There are plenty of people who aren't casters, although it is popular. Also the only casters who can confidently take on the high HP classes are Geos and Wizards. Necros and Beguilers aren't as safe a choice if you want to do tons of damage quickly enough, but are still good for other reasons.

If everybody goes caster because DK's are giving people too much trouble, what if the DK's, or some other group of classes switch to Samurai, Dragoon, or the Rogue classes? They give casters more trouble with their high damage attacks that prevent the caster from blowing off the mana needed to take the enemy down.



It's just like the beginning of Zeal when everybody was a paladin. It may not need balance, the players just need to broaden their horizons. That's why I'm a necromancer even though some people sped through leveling it to monopolize travel to the nether, the number of necros has dropped lately as more people are entering the nether.



EDIT to avoid double post: @shrimpy77

I'd like to hear output from a non-DK saying they're not OP, cause that I'm not really seeing.

They aren't OP

No really, if prepared with a personal tank (like another DK, or any other melee class) or an additional caster I can do it; Those 20 damage fireballs start to add up, and the DK will drop.

That's coming form a Caster's prospective. I don't think the issue here is DK's being over powered, it's Dragoons still being under powered. I think they should be able to give themselves speed buffs, or improve the usefullness of cleave and impale, OR add another melee skill like impale that gives a nasty effect that benefits the Dragoon in pvp.

 

[shrimpy77]

I think 1/2 the players is a pretty extreme estimate. There are plenty of people who aren't casters, although it is popular. Also the only casters who can confidently take on the high HP classes are Geos and Wizards. Necros and Beguilers aren't as safe a choice if you want to do tons of damage quickly enough, but are still good for other reasons.

If everybody goes caster because DK's are giving people too much trouble, what if the DK's, or some other group of classes switch to Samurai, Dragoon, or the Rogue classes? They give casters more trouble with their high damage attacks that prevent the caster from blowing off the mana needed to take the enemy down.



It's just like the beginning of Zeal when everybody was a paladin. It may not need balance, the players just need to broaden their horizons. That's why I'm a necromancer even though some people sped through leveling it to monopolize travel to the nether, the number of necros has dropped lately as more people are entering the nether.



EDIT to avoid double post: @shrimpy77





They aren't OP

No really, if prepared with a personal tank (like another DK, or any other melee class) or an additional caster I can do it; Those 20 damage fireballs start to add up, and the DK will drop.

That's coming form a Caster's prospective. I don't think the issue here is DK's being over powered, it's Dragoons still being under powered. I think they should be able to give themselves speed buffs, or improve the usefullness of cleave and impale, OR add another melee skill like impale that gives a nasty effect that benefits the Dragoon in pvp.

Impale is fine, it slows you so you walk 1block/2seconds, I guess dragoons are fine, except a decay will take its toll on a dragoon.

 

[GreekCrackShot]

I still win against most casters 1v1 due to drainsoul's range, it's actually longer than some of geos ranged skills lol. So if I get frozen, I just use drainsoul to get my health back since they have to be within range of me to use skills on me lol.

Also, deepfreeze still roots, when I thought it was only supposed to slow...