Suggestion Ninja rework

[crazydodapie]

I think ninja should be changed to be more lore fitting. Things like its skills and such, maybe just make a diff class called assassin?
Most people complain about ninjas not being sneaky, maybe cuz they cant? they dont have any skills to be "sneaky" ik sneak and smoke, but they are kinda underwhelming.

Thing is, Ninja isn't op. This will gathers lots of hate. Here are my suggestions

1st. Make ninja stealthy, ninjas should get a passive skill called invis/sneaky,

ninjas are always completely invisible, maybe make this toggleable with a drain of 5-10 stam and 2-4 mana per 5 seconds.

2nd. Combine many of the ninja skills so you can get the same effect, but less dmg. For example,

Combine smoke and blind, blind part is only available once mastered.
Combine kick and blackjack into something like stomp or jab, momentarily hits a pressure point and locks up joints as well as some pain. damage and stun time scales with agil, the more points you can hit, the more damage and longer nervous response time. base damage would be like 10, with like 1.5 per point? with around 30 agil, thats the base of kick and blackjack, removes 1/2 of the initial damage.
Combine backflip and envenom, when you momentarily retreat, what better time to apply poison, however, make it a toggleable skill to shuriken or envenom during backflip.

3rd. Things like envenom shouldn't cost mana or stamina, maybe a reagent like sugar/shrooms? those aren't rare but require a ninja to keep a supply of "drugs" to poison targets. Maybe envenom can be changed to just cause a random mix of vanilla effects like fatigue, weakness, nausea, slowness or instant damage. Doesn't last for a time period, just the first 3-5 hits before there isn't enough poison on the blade to cause the effects. Have the effects scale with the hits, like the first hit after envenom will have the greatest chance to cause the debuffs.

Skill Suggestions.

Dart - you throw a dart dipped in poison. Flies like a fully charged arrow
reagent 1 arrow, sugar
cd: .5 sec?
effect- 5 instant damage, same effects as envenom

Eviscerate change to Execute/Assassinate- used to kill
reagent nothing .5 second warmup break upon taking damage
cd: nothing
Effect - insta kill, however, the target must be incapacitated, such as blinded/slowed/fatigued/weak/nauseous all at once. While in warmuup, visible.

this is more of a silent killer type thing, you must dart the guy. jab him. poison him. and avoid his 1-3 melee strikes before killing him.

To compensate, ninja should loose all upfront capabilities,
Should remove many combat skills to skills more oriented to silently killing.
HP base- 350 - 500
can completely remove smoke and fade maybe blind, could just add that effect to the dart.
melee base is like healers.
Passive invis is removed for 2 seconds after taking damage as well as being off when hit by things like stuns or suffering under effects like nausea or blindness.
Make all skills available at lvl 1 besides dart. to counter this and make a need to lvl, things like the passive invis or the warmup for assassinate require less stam and mana as you lvl up, or the warmup time goes down as you lvl up.

This is meant to be a tricky class to play. Not op. One must be able to drug the target completely to kill him, which should require a good amount of melee hits before even attempting to kill.

 

[DuskWolfMC]

An instant kill for any class seems unfair.

 

[szatanista]

Allofmywut.jpg

Instakill ability? How about no and theres already thread about ninja started by Std's which is like 7 pages long.

 

[crazydodapie]

Allofmywut.jpg

Instakill ability? How about no and theres already thread about ninja started by Std's which is like 7 pages long.

by the time you get them drugged enough to use the insta kill, with ninja now, probably already got the kill. Also, .5 seconds is more than enough time to hit someone to cancel the skill. keep in mind, at the early lvls, wiz can kill in ~5 seconds, fireball, pulse, icebolt = dead, or fireball, bolt = dead, even at the higher lvls, this class is designed in mind to be able to be killed within 5 seconds if caught.

An instant kill for any class seems unfair.

I think the requirements needed before the insta kill, and being easily cancel-able balance it out.

 

[malikdanab]

While I disagree with most of your concepts there is certain ideas I like.

Toggle-able invisibility

• • Decent warmup (thinking 1-1.5 seconds / Interrupted by dmg)
  • Drains stamina at a steady rate
  • Since you can use it more often then previous stealth make it that you have slow I ( doesn't make sense to be invisible when moving at full speed)

Envenom applying a status effect rather than just dmg (instead of a dmg buff revert it to on next hit

• • I think a good effect would be nausea
  • Instead of current dmg buff, revert it to the previous on next hit.

I like the concept of an assassinate. To make it balanced:

• • make it not insta-kill
  • You must be behind the person to use it
  • Very high cooldown

Currently ninja plays like a warrior instead of a stealth hit-n-run rogue. if these changes where to be added it would require:

• eviscerate to be removed ( you already have good piercing dmg with blitz/ Assassinate will replace it)
• Remove blackjack (Ninjas already have good utility and blackjack is just a remnant of the "Thief" class)
• Removal of fade in favor of the new stealth skill
• Remove blind
  • Replace it with a reworked smoke than gives an AOE blind rather than stealth. (Decent warm-up so it's used more as a escape instead of a a combat ability/ The combat CC would be the reworked envenom.)

 

[szatanista]

Lolwut.jpg

Have you ever played ninja? WIzard have absolutely no chance against him. You just blackjack and kill wiz with few swings and if he roots you BAM escapeartist (dont speak about early lvl's because even Kainzo or w/e admin said theres no balance in early lvls)

Edit 0,5 sec is like instant and you have almost 0 chance to stop it. Btw this will never be added anyways so w/e

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

Ninjas already have an insta-kill, it's called blackjack+backstab. Giving it a literal 'insta-kill' would be fucking brilliant though. I want to login to HeroCraft to see 150 Ninjas and me as the lone disciple. That's my goal.

 

[crazydodapie]

Ninjas already have an insta-kill, it's called blackjack+backstab. Giving it a literal 'insta-kill' would be fucking brilliant though. I want to login to HeroCraft to see 150 Ninjas and me as the lone disciple. That's my goal.

and you can 6 hit insta kill them. If you can punch them once in .5 seconds, ur fine. if u cant, u suck.

While I disagree with most of your concepts there is certain ideas I like.

Toggle-able invisibility

• • Decent warmup (thinking 1-1.5 seconds / Interrupted by dmg)
  • Drains stamina at a steady rate
  • Since you can use it more often then previous stealth make it that you have slow I ( doesn't make sense to be invisible when moving at full speed)

Envenom applying a status effect rather than just dmg (instead of a dmg buff revert it to on next hit

• • I think a good effect would be nausea
  • Instead of current dmg buff, revert it to the previous on next hit.

I like the concept of an assassinate. To make it balanced:

• • make it not insta-kill
  • You must be behind the person to use it
  • Very high cooldown

Currently ninja plays like a warrior instead of a stealth hit-n-run rogue. if these changes where to be added it would require:

• eviscerate to be removed ( you already have good piercing dmg with blitz/ Assassinate will replace it)
• Remove blackjack (Ninjas already have good utility and blackjack is just a remnant of the "Thief" class)
• Removal of fade in favor of the new stealth skill
• Remove blind
  • Replace it with a reworked smoke than gives an AOE blind rather than stealth. (Decent warm-up so it's used more as a escape instead of a a combat ability/ The combat CC would be the reworked envenom.)

this is ok, i mean ninjas should be extremely trained in stealth, so i dont understand the slow part, maybe for a difference rouge class have a slow.
i think people dont get the fact that this class would take around 2 seconds to kill as a melee person and about impossible to get killed by as a healer, im pretty sure some of them remove debuffs, which would mean you cant get assassinated, and other classes like casters, like 2-5 sec to kill. THIS IS A FRAGILE CLASS. :\
i was thinking escape artist be an auto activate skill that costs 100 stam and mana. without the speed boost, takes 1 seconds to activate morethan enough time to catch and fireball
This class, at least in my mind, will have the following base stats

weapon, sword, mage damage, so like 17-34 for gold and whatnot.
300-500 hp, 1000 stam like everyone else, and 600 base and max mana.

This is not a "PVP" class particularly, cuz its one method of killing requires so much setup

 

[bladetigers]

i cant sit by reading this anymore. i love ninja, i have since bastion (when i started) and i agree that it needs some sort of change right now but this isn't the way to do it. this will just kill off ninja completely. realistically it will be to weak and vulnerable i don't care that it should be stealthy (in relation to your suggestion), the stealth should be some sort of thing that when you sneak up on someone you get an advantage in the upcoming fight but not like this. this way if anyone sees you, when your a ninja, you are dead. ninja needs to change from an all out tank right now but this isn't the way to do it.

edit: ninja should have high weapon damage though, rogues are masters of the sword (not warriors, their the masters of wearing massive armor and not falling over)

edit2: poorly worded the if anyone sees you part but i hope you get my point, you wont win anything

ps. like the majority of my posts i probably won't post on this thread again.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

and you can 6 hit insta kill them. If you can punch them once in .5 seconds, ur fine. if u cant, u suck.

Do you have any idea what instakill means?

 

[what777]

what in the fuck did i just read?

 

[szatanista]

Tis thread is like....holy shit. Just delete it plz?

Clearly OP have no idea about ninja nor pvp

 

[Glacial_Reign]

@crazydodapie

YOU HAVE THE WORST SUGGESTIONS FOR CLASSES.

I don't think you grasp the idea of balancing classes like not adding insta kill skills to already op classes. Passive skills are bland and boring and take no skill so no on passives either.

 

[macura]

Did you actually just suggest an insta kill skill?

 

[crazydodapie]

Tis thread is like....holy shit. Just delete it plz?

Clearly OP have no idea about ninja nor pvp

explain

@crazydodapie

YOU HAVE THE WORST SUGGESTIONS FOR CLASSES.

I don't think you grasp the idea of balancing classes like not adding insta kill skills to already op classes. Passive skills are bland and boring and take no skill so no on passives either.

technically not an insta kill, requires at least 5-10 hits before a sure chance of a kill.

Did you actually just suggest an insta kill skill?

no i suggested a 6-11 hit kill

Tis thread is like....holy shit. Just delete it plz?

Clearly OP have no idea about ninja nor pvp

i like how u think.
warrior=60-80 dmg, 80 vs 500 = 7 hits
ninja=16-35 dmg, requires at least 5-11 hits to get the effects on and kill it.
cuz 7 hits are so much more than 11...

what in the fuck did i just read?

yet another of one of my unpopular threads.

Do you have any idea what instakill means?

Ninjas already have an insta-kill, it's called blackjack+backstab. Giving it a literal 'insta-kill' would be fucking brilliant though. I want to login to HeroCraft to see 150 Ninjas and me as the lone disciple. That's my goal.

Does this guy?^

this "insta-kill" is the results of around 5-10 hit, also easily canceled.

 

[malikdanab]

Time to play devils advocate (because apparently everyone is circle-jerking on the bandwagon these days)

If you didn't make it insta kill and rather just a high dmg skill, people wouldn't hate it as much. While you do have some interesting ideas:
Toggle-able invisibility
Envenom status effects

The concept of a "Insta-kill" is to hard to balance and the way to obtain it is too gimmicky IMO. I like how you are theorizing ways to make ninja more "skillful," but the wording makes it seem like it's a buff. (it is a buff in many cases, but lets not bother with that.)

Now if you guys can stop being assholes about everything and at least look at the potential of some of his ideas, I'd be happy.

 

[Dakinara]

i kind of like the idea of toggle-able invisibility if it meant bye bye to smoke. But it would need to drain stam really fast to keep it a short duration thing, would be nice if the drain could increase each second to promote quick invis to backstab / short evade but make longer invis to run very risky as you will run out of stam quickly and cant sprint / grappling hook / fade / backflip, etc..

 

[malikdanab]

i kind of like the idea of toggle-able invisibility if it meant bye bye to smoke. But it would need to drain stam really fast to keep it a short duration thing, would be nice if the drain could increase each second to promote quick invis to backstab / short evade but make longer invis to run very risky as you will run out of stam quickly and cant sprint / grappling hook / fade / backflip, etc..

With the addition to more utility I'd think it be fair to:

• Reduce dmg on some of it's skills/make skills require stealth (possibly eviscerate)
• Remove blackjack. With the addition of a reliable stealth, a stun would no longer be need to backstab.

 

[crazydodapie]

With the addition to more utility I'd think it be fair to:

• Reduce dmg on some of it's skills/make skills require stealth (possibly eviscerate)
• Remove blackjack. With the addition of a reliable stealth, a stun would no longer be need to backstab.

considering ninja now, u need less than 11 hits to kill someone usually, including skills. with this, u need at least 6-11 hits depending on how lucky u are before u can kill them.
People, this class should be easily killed by anything else

i kind of like the idea of toggle-able invisibility if it meant bye bye to smoke. But it would need to drain stam really fast to keep it a short duration thing, would be nice if the drain could increase each second to promote quick invis to backstab / short evade but make longer invis to run very risky as you will run out of stam quickly and cant sprint / grappling hook / fade / backflip, etc..

why would it be short duration? they are supposed to be trained warriors of the night.

I refined the idea more, so passive invis, however, within 3 blocks of another player, which i think is a little farther than the reach distance, people can see them. so give ninja passive invis, while giving all other classes a "paying attention" or something so within a certain number of blocks, u can see everyone regardless. For example, a ranger would have sharper eyesight than a bard i presume, etc.

ninjas have like a standard 60-70 sword damage, sneaking and backstabbing would increase that to around 150~ which would take around 3 seconds of spamclick to kill unarmored people. then add kick blackjack and eviscerate. Im under the opinion that blitz is useless unless in water. and ninja now has 2x the health im suggesting.

Im confused at why some people are so stupid. how is this op whatsoever?

 

[Templar_James]

considering ninja now, u need less than 11 hits to kill someone usually, including skills. with this, u need at least 6-11 hits depending on how lucky u are before u can kill them.
People, this class should be easily killed by anything else

why would it be short duration? they are supposed to be trained warriors of the night.

I refined the idea more, so passive invis, however, within 3 blocks of another player, which i think is a little farther than the reach distance, people can see them. so give ninja passive invis, while giving all other classes a "paying attention" or something so within a certain number of blocks, u can see everyone regardless. For example, a ranger would have sharper eyesight than a bard i presume, etc.

ninjas have like a standard 60-70 sword damage, sneaking and backstabbing would increase that to around 150~ which would take around 3 seconds of spamclick to kill unarmored people. then add kick blackjack and eviscerate. Im under the opinion that blitz is useless unless in water. and ninja now has 2x the health im suggesting.

Im confused at why some people are so stupid. how is this op whatsoever?

I'm sorry dude, but your suggestion isn't good. The passive invis would be bad because all the guy has to do is do massive damage run away out of combat and then go into invis without stamina. The invis should be for 2-3 minutes on a 1 minute cd and cost like 200-400 stamina maybe even more as it is a incredible escape skill/damage skill for backstabbing someone. The instakill is a bad idea in general as no class should have an instakill.

The funny thing is though you say it is an instakill, but it isn't an instakill and even if you have requirements and say your bad if you can't hit someone in. .5 seconds do you understand what .5 seconds is? Please don't suggest anything until you get a little older to understand what math is and to learn other sorts of grammar.

Not trying to hate on you dude, but the idea is just not good.

Also I'm so confused on what your even saying after the passive invis, blitz only working in water like what?