Suggestion New Samurai Skills

[c12095]

You did not add disarm to your equations.

Add that into the "Use your imagination" part at the end.

 

[TheMrLief]

Now for Armor Reduction

The Ninja Armor reduces about 32% from a melee attack.

The Samurai Armor reduces about 49% from a melee attack.

Chain helm and leather armor reduces that much? Wut

 

[c12095]

Chain helm and leather armor reduces that much? Wut

Yep.

 

[Fjordsen]

I've never been in a fight with a ninja that lasts over 20 sec, so your 270dmg is false and some of it gets stopped by the ninja armor. You are false about Mortalwound aswell, it takes 8 stam, but 3.4 (lol 3 stam is nothing), Bash also takes 5 stam, not 2.5. Eviscerate doesn't deal 201dmg, check /skills ninja and it shows 289dmg, Multiheartgold who is a Ninja said he tested it and it dealed 299dmg aswell. Due to MC lag, there is no way at all to Bash a skill that has a 1 sec warmup, like at all. Not to mention that bash is bugged and doesn't respond in 90% of the time. You did not mention that a Ninja can Smoke when we use Bladegrasp, and avoid the bladegrasp completly making us waste 10 stam on nothing (Bladegrasp has 3 min CD, Eviscerate has 20 sec, wtf?). During the fight, the Ninja will have atleast 1 stun, often 2-3 and during those stuns he can easily dish out several hundred dmg while we cant do anything. Blitz has already been used as Bash is bugged so the samurai will be nearly dead by now as the Ninja has used Blitz and eviscerate + stun. The Ninja can easily finish us off with auto attacks as we are low on HP, and if samurai somehow have 10 stam left, we can try disarm, but the ninja can backflip away and kite untill his sword is back, then finish us off.

You did NOT mention that Ninjas have 12 skills were Samurais have 6 c12095 Cleave is broken (NoCheat), Bladegrasp doesn't block 100% which is stupid, and it can easily be dodged with stun, slow, smoke, Jumpm, Disarm or any skill that lets you kite for 3 sec/slow the samurai for 3 sec. That leaves us down to pure auto hitting and spamming Bleed. Look, we have 6 skills, whereas 3 of them are useful, but the most useful one can easily be dodged by any class with a slow/stun/movement skill. Samurais need some new skills and rework of the old ones (Mortalwound, Bladegrasp, Bash needs to be fixed BADLY, One doesn't let you hit someone if they are sprinting with their backs turned to you).

 

[c12095]

I've never been in a fight with a ninja that lasts over 20 sec, so your 270dmg is false and some of it gets stopped by the ninja armor. You are false about Mortalwound aswell, it takes 8 stam, but 3.4 (lol 3 stam is nothing), Bash also takes 5 stam, not 2.5. Eviscerate doesn't deal 201dmg, check /skills ninja and it shows 289dmg, Multiheartgold who is a Ninja said he tested it and it dealed 299dmg aswell. Due to MC lag, there is no way at all to Bash a skill that has a 1 sec warmup, like at all. Not to mention that bash is bugged and doesn't respond in 90% of the time. You did not mention that a Ninja can Smoke when we use Bladegrasp, and avoid the bladegrasp completly making us waste 10 stam on nothing (Bladegrasp has 3 min CD, Eviscerate has 20 sec, wtf?). During the fight, the Ninja will have atleast 1 stun, often 2-3 and during those stuns he can easily dish out several hundred dmg while we cant do anything. Blitz has already been used as Bash is bugged so the samurai will be nearly dead by now as the Ninja has used Blitz and eviscerate + stun. The Ninja can easily finish us off with auto attacks as we are low on HP, and if samurai somehow have 10 stam left, we can try disarm, but the ninja can backflip away and kite untill his sword is back, then finish us off.

You did NOT mention that Ninjas have 12 skills were Samurais have 6 c12095 Cleave is broken (NoCheat), Bladegrasp doesn't block 100% which is stupid, and it can easily be dodged with stun, slow, smoke, Jumpm, Disarm or any skill that lets you kite for 3 sec/slow the samurai for 3 sec. That leaves us down to pure auto hitting and spamming Bleed. Look, we have 6 skills, whereas 3 of them are useful, but the most useful one can easily be dodged by any class with a slow/stun/movement skill. Samurais need some new skills and rework of the old ones (Mortalwound, Bladegrasp, Bash needs to be fixed BADLY, One doesn't let you hit someone if they are sprinting with their backs turned to you).

Danda

Would you like to comment on damages?

 

[Archmage_Lloyd]

Ideas for another Samurai skill(Kainzo announced to post some)
These are just some of my ideas, feel free to post yours

Frenzy- Your sword is empowered by rage, you attack the target 3 times over 3 seconds.(Bleed renamed & changed to 40 damage per tick , 1 tick per second for 3 seconds.(120 damage total)

Crushing Blow- You smash your sword into your opponent slowing them for 3 seconds.

Crescent Sweep- You knock up your target dealing 60 damage and silence your target for 4 seconds(renamed flyingkick)

Shadow Assault- You hide in the shadows(smoke renamed)

Please refrain from starting arguments and getting this thread locked thanks!
w0nd3rb0y PCmonkey11 @all other mastered/current Samurai's Any ideas/changes?

Frenzy, I like the idea however it just seems out of context, thus keeping bleed would be easier.

Crushing blow, The last thing a samurai needs is a root.

Cresent sweep, I really like this idea, however samurai is a class that wants to keep classes on the ground and over power them with physical attacks, Adding kick at level 44 or 45 could be interesting, but I would go against even that. Perhaps have this skill instead of cleave. Like what victim said.
Shadow assault, I dont see this fitting in with the class, at all. This is a not a sneaky class.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

ArchMage, as a former Ninja, I can tell you that ninjas run out of stamina fairly quickly. Your scenario of them wiping the floor of any samurai is incorrect.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

299dmg aswell.I said 199
Eviscerate has 30* sec.

Corrected some facts. I'd suggest you to try Ninja and fight Samurais, so you can see yourself on how the fight from Ninja's point of view. I always complain about Casters kiting because I fail to counter them, but once tried the class to realize its not THAT easy.

 

[victim130]

Ok, for all Samurai's that have been complaining, here are the real numbers.

First off, this imaginary 7 heart instant damage is total BS and it needs to stop.

Ninja Damage

Eviscerate is an Instant Cast dealing 201 damage and a 20 second CD.

Blitz has a Warm-Up of 1 second and deals 210 damage and a 30 second CD.

(Here we are already broken this imaginary Instant Cast 7 heart theory)

This does a total of 411 damage, no where near the 700 that has been exaggerated here.

Now for Samurai Damage

Bleed damage deals 150 damage over 15 seconds with about a 3 second CD

MortalWound (The only real issue) is dealing incorrect damage. Last time I adjusted Samurai MortalWound was supposed to deal true damage, however when tested it was still affected by armor. It deals a total of 177 damage to unarmored targets, or around 120 to Ninjas. It cost around 3-4 stamina and has around a 5 second CD.

Thats a total of 270 over 20 seconds. Use them both twice (Around exact CD timers like you should be) You have 540 over 40 seconds. Thats damage you don't even have to be there for.

Now for Melee Damage

The Ninja Melee Attack with a Diamond Sword is 107.

The Samurai Melee Attack with a Diamond Sword is 92 damage.

Now for Armor Reduction

The Ninja Armor reduces about 32% from a melee attack.

The Samurai Armor reduces about 49% from a melee attack.

Do the math

The Ninja Basic Attack will deal 54 damage to a Samurai

The Samurai Basic Attack will deal around 62 damage to a Ninja

Lastly, Health Pools

A Ninja has 924 Max Health

A Samurai has 986 Max Health

Time for a fight

Starting out, a Ninja will most likely initiate with an Eviscerate, so thats 201 damage right off the bat. (986-201=785)

The Samurai should be retuning the favor with a Bleed & MortalWound combo, dealing 270 damage over 20 seconds.

The Ninja will most likely be attempting to Blitz the Samurai, however it has a Warm-Up. If the ninja were paying attention they could Bash off the Blitz dealing 93 damage and taking 2.5 Stamina.

This will prevent the Ninja from dealing that extra 210 right away, allowing the Samurai to continue to beat on the Ninja when casting.

If the Ninja attempts to recast Blitz, you can choose to let it cast, or use another 2.5 stamina. Personally I would use the Stamina, this allows you to continue basic attacking without fear of returning damage.

However at the point of 2 bashed, the Ninja should realize he can't risk doing this much longer and start hitting back.

Now, damage based here, the Samurai should be down to the 785 discussed, but lets add two basic attack in so 677 health.

The Ninja will have ate part of two bleeds, so lets say around 150 damage, along with three basic attacks, so( 942-150-186=606)

Now we are down to Auto Attacks for a little bit. So we have around 20ish seconds before Eviscerate is off CD, so you both better be hitting with your swords.

Now seeing as Eviscerate has around 20 seconds left, that means about 10 seconds of the fight has past.

Here is where it comes down to skill, you better be able to strafe, or you will die.

The Ninja has two tools that can help in this situation, Blackjack and Envenom

The Samurai has one tool that can help in this situation, Bladegrasp.

Lets go ahead and say after 2 Auto Attacks that the Ninja landed a Blackjack. However this also means the Samurai got around 2 hits also. Samurai-(677-108=569) Ninja-(606-124=482)

Now the Ninja better be smart enough to start casting Blitz, and this time lets say it goes off.
Samurai-(569-210=359)

The Samurai better realize that theres an issue here and pop Bladegrasp (Which blocks 100% of Basic Attacks for 5 seconds.)

The Samurai can get an easy 4-5 hits off before Bladegrasp wears off with the assistant of One to keep up with a Blackflip. So lets add up four hits. Ninja-(482-216=270) But, by this time both bleeds should have finished, I added in 150 of the 270 damage, so lets add the other 120. (270-120=150)

I'll leave the rest of this fight to your imagination, however these completely exaggerated complaints need to stop. Do the math, don't start threads like this until there is a real issue that needs to be addressed.

Now I agree to most of this, but your idea of Bladegrasp is a little flawed, it eats 3/4ths stam (About), you can't do much with it active, ESPECIALLY if you have used another skill. Plus I wasn't saying its impossible to beat a Ninja, I hardly lose to them, I just think that half health to anybody is over the top, even for a class that can delay half of it.

I mostly would like to see a rebirth of the samurai if you will, even if adding new skills requires the old to be nerfed. I mean Cleave and Berserk are massively lame and Bladegrasp is only good against 3/4ths of the rogues and 3/4ths the warriors. (Ranger/DK) Which isn't too bad, but its still situational+can be countered easily by some of those classes.

So I'm not asking for a buff per say, but a revision and something to add to the class. Some more fun maybe? I mean a DK and a Ranger have so many skills to choose from that do lots of cool things, a samurai reduces healing done as our only "Cool" thing. And don't go saying "Find another class" Samurai is probably the only basic attack friendly class out there, hits pretty close to home with the days I fought in Vanilla alongside IKaosI.

 

[Danda]

All damage values that are in C12's post were found by me and him testing skills on live. All values in c12's post are correct though the stamina values are displayed assuming that max stam is 9.5 rather than 19. Which is where some of you are probably getting confused.

 

[victim130]

All damage values that are in C12's post were found by me and him testing skills on live. All values in c12's post are correct though the stamina values are displayed assuming that max stam is 9.5 rather than 19. Which is where some of you are probably getting confused.

Yeah that kinda did confuse me >.< oh well, that makes much more sense now then.

 

[ytiggidmas]

I'll leave the rest of this fight to your imagination, however these completely exaggerated complaints need to stop. Do the math, don't start threads like this until there is a real issue that needs to be addressed.

I started this thread at kainzo's request, I already told them that this "rework" was unnecessary , and was simply trying to get them to come up with a new skill or two. If you read the post you might see the reasoning behind it.

 

[mikehk]

idk where some of you get that samurais can't beat casters... i'm a pyro and in skirmishes, samurais seem to beat me quite often... then again... i don't have chaosorb or firewave yet, so i can't give absolute details on how the fight would go, but so far, samurais seem to be on par with at least pyros.

 

[w0nd3rb0y]

As a sammy I can tell you fighting ninjas now is pretty difficult due to the recent lag issues. However, if lag and skills are in your favor, beating a ninja is cake. The only thing I don't like is getting stun locked and backstabed at the beginning of the fight. If that happens its game over. I would like to see an instant damage skill added to sammy. I was thinking "Sacrifice" Dealing 150 instant damage to target, but inflicting 50 dmg to self. Stam cost be 8, and a 30 sec CD. Also possibly remove one and add "Charge" 6-7 block range teleporting you to target and stunning them for x seconds and dealing 125% base damage. I still support inversion making a return. Just add a damage cap like Empathy. Maybe around 175 damage.

 

[mikehk]

I've seen 3 other classes compared to samurai on this thread, if more my mistake and i overlooked them, but ive seen samurai compared to only ninja, runeblade, and wizard, the latter being mentioned in how inversion would effect samurai. If you guys want your points taken seriously, quit comparing to so few classes, look at the big picture instead of what you can't beat.

 

[w0nd3rb0y]

I've seen 3 other classes compared to samurai on this thread, if more my mistake and i overlooked them, but ive seen samurai compared to only ninja, runeblade, and wizard, the latter being mentioned in how inversion would effect samurai. If you guys want your points taken seriously, quit comparing to so few classes, look at the big picture instead of what you can't beat.

If you are referring to me mentioning ninja in my post it was to add my opinion to the ABOVE conversation. However inversions wouldn't be used to only kill casters. MANY classes use mana. DK, Pally, Casters, Healers, Bard, etc. So inversion wouldn't only effect casters. That's why I suggested to put a damage cap on inversion. I mean sammy is a strong class, but boring as all hell. It's basically just swing to kill. I want some variety in skills.

 

[jazza411]

As a sammy I can tell you fighting ninjas now is pretty difficult due to the recent lag issues. However, if lag and skills are in your favor, beating a ninja is cake. The only thing I don't like is getting stun locked and backstabed at the beginning of the fight. If that happens its game over. I would like to see an instant damage skill added to sammy. I was thinking "Sacrifice" Dealing 150 instant damage to target, but inflicting 50 dmg to self. Stam cost be 8, and a 30 sec CD. Also possibly remove one and add "Charge" 6-7 block range teleporting you to target and stunning them for x seconds and dealing 125% base damage. I still support inversion making a return. Just add a damage cap like Empathy. Maybe around 175 damage.

Sammy's in lore would not sacrafice them self, what samurai's need are a slow or stun.


Dreadknights have terror-

You terrify your target (within 7 blocks) for 6 seconds, impairing their vision and movement. Takes 1 second to warm up.
Dragoons have impale-Your spade impales your target (within 5 blocks) and tosses them into the air, slowing them for 3 seconds and dealing 134 damage. Applies to all spade types.
Paladins have Divine stun and reckoning-

You pull in enemies within 8 blocks, dealing 50 damage and slowing them for 3.5 seconds. Takes half a second to warm up.

You pull in enemies within 8 blocks, dealing 50 damage and slowing them for 3.5 seconds. Takes half a second to warm up.
I am really sorry about how trippy this is I pasted this from the wiki. All other warrior specs have a slow or stun except for Samurai, They need a skill like cripple where it is a slow and instant damager.

 

[victim130]

Sammy's in lore would not sacrafice them self, what samurai's need are a slow or stun.


Dreadknights have terror-

You terrify your target (within 7 blocks) for 6 seconds, impairing their vision and movement. Takes 1 second to warm up.
Dragoons have impale-Your spade impales your target (within 5 blocks) and tosses them into the air, slowing them for 3 seconds and dealing 134 damage. Applies to all spade types.
Paladins have Divine stun and reckoning-

You pull in enemies within 8 blocks, dealing 50 damage and slowing them for 3.5 seconds. Takes half a second to warm up.

You pull in enemies within 8 blocks, dealing 50 damage and slowing them for 3.5 seconds. Takes half a second to warm up.
I am really sorry about how trippy this is I pasted this from the wiki. All other warrior specs have a slow or stun except for Samurai, They need a skill like cripple where it is a slow and instant damager.

Personally, Sacrifice is a fine lore idea, Samurai would usually make tons of sacrifices (Maybe not the one in question) but it could fit. Totally fits waaay more than Berserk.

 

[jazza411]

Personally, Sacrifice is a fine lore idea, Samurai would usually make tons of sacrifices (Maybe not the one in question) but it could fit. Totally fits waaay more than Berserk.

Yes but it depends what kind of a sacrifice it is, the vibe I was getting from it was more like a bloodmage sacrifice.

 

[victim130]

Yes but it depends what kind of a sacrifice it is, the vibe I was getting from it was more like a bloodmage sacrifice.

Maybe a name change, how about Fearless Strike? Resembling the idea of them not fearing death, but embracing it in battle?