Suggestion New Samurai Skills

[xFuZe]

We are honor bound swordsman of the Bushido. We do not use coward tactics such as Anger, Dirty fighting or hiding! (/end lore)
EtKEnn is right, but (Sorry you guys need a fucking wake up call) its "BIAS" if I put my input >.> (COUGH FUCKING COUGH)

But in seriousness, Berserk refers to Revenge or Anger, I already HATE that skill. I think Kainzo should rename it or remove it. Cleave is half broken half useless. Personally I enjoy bleed+MW with a BG or One when I can use it. And I use Bash when I can to interrupt casters, however, we have very little to stop kiting classes. I like Sam's ideas, but same reason Berserk doesn't work for me- its not Samurai-ish. Now here are my ideas.

Crescent Sweep- (First off I love this name.) Remove Cleave. Its only purpose is to kill large groups of mobs that you only ever see in events. (Now don't go calling it situational, because we have a few other of those fuckshit skills) ON to my idea though. Keep its multitarget function in, but make it slow (2-3seconds) or silence (0.5sec at most, this way its more of an interrupt, also making Bash less used and giving Samurai another skill)

Honorbound- As your HP gets lower you slightly gain more damage. (Assuming this is even possible at the moment) And I mean SLIGHTLY maybe an increase of 15 at MAX (And that would be if you are dead) This gives reference to fighting to the end.

(Kenn's idea) Banzai- Toss a firework at target and dazzle them. (Possible stun or CC of some sort) This may not be needed if my rework of Cleave is used.

Personally I think Berserk needs the boot and Bladegrasp needs some reworking. First off, we have about 3 to 4 situational skills and that's not including One. Berserk is LAME and kinda useless, we already die fast enough, what possible situation could it be used in? Killing a weak foe faster? Some edge on another samurai? Pssh, its useless in my eyes. Then Bladegrasp, situational, but better. Its for melee users (Or hybrids in some cases) and eventually blocks virtually ALL incoming melee damage. Well this is still a bit lame. Most classes have a plethora of skills that bypass it and if in the case they don't, you NEED to kill them during its duration or you are probably risking death or near death. I think BG should reduce all incoming damage allowing damage to be done, but even casters can't go through it.

Many Samurai can still manage and I won't lie, there are worse off classes, but we will eventually be the weak link in the future. Not to mention we have the smallest combo in the entire game. I might seem like a furious storm in this post, but I seriously LOVE Heroes and I know most aspects of it even if I only play Samurai. I am not bias and I don't want my class to be a god tier class. So trust me on this and please comment on what I have said here.

Crescent Sweep would become and AoE slow/silence which I believe would be quite too powerful for any team fighting situation. I think making Samurai have a skill that could slow/stun with the bow can fix the problem.. Maybe a 30 second cooldown or so.

 

[Jinder745]

victim130
EtKEnn
What they should do is remove One and add a skill like charge with a 2/3 second slow. They should also remove berserk and add a passive at level 60 that makes it the lower you are the more damage you pump out

 

[ytiggidmas]

victim130
EtKEnn
What they should do is remove One and add a skill like charge with a 2/3 second slow. They should also remove berserk and add a passive at level 60 that makes it the lower you are the more damage you pump out

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when all you say is "this should do this and this should do this"
put some reasoning behind it and more details into it please.

 

[victim130]

Crescent Sweep would become and AoE slow/silence which I believe would be quite too powerful for any team fighting situation. I think making Samurai have a skill that could slow/stun with the bow can fix the problem.. Maybe a 30 second cooldown or so.

I like the bow idea, but I think that an interrupt of 0.5 seconds wouldn't be super effective on group targets per say. Sure you could get lucky and stop the burst of several people, but in most cases you would only be focusing on interrupting one guy. And if it slowed, I don't see that being a big problem, I mean some classes have worse AoE CC, like Mass Pigify which is a silence and snare. Reckoning also slows in an area too if I remember correctly.

 

[victim130]

victim130
EtKEnn
What they should do is remove One and add a skill like charge with a 2/3 second slow. They should also remove berserk and add a passive at level 60 that makes it the lower you are the more damage you pump out

While I like the idea, I just think it would present the same problem as One minus the slow. Charge would place us behind the target and then if they live through the slow they are free to go, with one I can at least keep up for another 3 or so bursts. They still live half the time mind you, but I think our odds are better with One.

 

[Haxnn]

Not being a samurai, I can't really give a suggestion. The only suggestion that I can give is to change the name or berserk. It just doesn't fit a samurai. They should be honorable fighters, not crazy guys swinging a sword.

 

[Jinder745]

While I like the idea, I just think it would present the same problem as One minus the slow. Charge would place us behind the target and then if they live through the slow they are free to go, with one I can at least keep up for another 3 or so bursts. They still live half the time mind you, but I think our odds are better with One.

True say but One is buggy as hell and hard to hit people with sometimes

 

[Kwong050]

At the moment, One is a way too powerful skill. As a ninja last map, ninjas were overpowered with it because they are very squishy with high dmg but being unable to be hit, there squishyness did not matter. This goes for samis too.

 

[Kwong050]

At the moment, One is a way too powerful skill. As a ninja last map, ninjas were overpowered with it because they are very squishy with high dmg but being unable to be hit, thus their squishyness did not matter. This goes for samis too.

 

[hjhjhjj4]

Be a scribe so you can dispel it.

 

[Falker57]

I would love all these, however sammy would just be a Ninja in armor. I wouldn't mind a slow, but a "fade" and "silence" would be OP. Bring back inversion

A nerfed inversion would be ideal 75 to 50% of the casters missing mana. So 100 missing mana would do like 500 dmg... Actually make that 30%~ hahaha I think inversion used to do 100% of mana but I am probs wrong.

 

[Mrchucklez]

You guys should be more constructive, I mean we can do damage so in turn we can kill, but so many other classes can out class us, but since Samurai requires much more skill to be mastered, we tend to look better in the eyes of "Easier" classes. I'm not trying to doubt you two, but I just want to know why you think that

Vic I think I clearly stated my thoughts in my post

 

[Fjordsen]

A nerfed inversion would be ideal 75 to 50% of the casters missing mana. So 100 missing mana would do like 500 dmg... Actually make that 30%~ hahaha I think inversion used to do 100% of mana but I am probs wrong.

It used to be 75% back when there was max 100 mana for any caster. A samurai could pull a 75dmg inversion, but that never ever happened as Casters never run completly out of mana and some of them have mana regen skills. Also, a 50% Inversion would make Casters think before they press every single keybind in a battle and just kite us to death. There are skills dealing instant 300-800dmg (Eviscerate, Blitz, Firewave, Plaguebomb) so whynot Inversion? It is a lvl 60 skill after all, and Samurais have the worst skillset right now in the game. (2 good sammy skills, 1 good warrior skill). Add a warm-up for Inversion, 1.5 sec or something. Other melee classes have nukes and Inversion is only good if the opponent used mana, no stam and if the target had little mana left. If you see "EtKEnn begins to use Inversion" simply Replenish, DarkRitual, silence, bash etc.

As for level 55, the passive ability Jinder mentioned sounds good.

 

[jazza411]

victim130
EtKEnn
What they should do is remove One and add a skill like charge with a 2/3 second slow. They should also remove berserk and add a passive at level 60 that makes it the lower you are the more damage you pump out

I feel like beserk should be a skill like reborn, you drop below a certain amount of health you unlock the beserking rage in yourself.

 

[macura]

It used to be 75% back when there was max 100 mana for any caster. A samurai could pull a 75dmg inversion, but that never ever happened as Casters never run completly out of mana and some of them have mana regen skills. Also, a 50% Inversion would make Casters think before they press every single keybind in a battle and just kite us to death. There are skills dealing instant 300-800dmg (Eviscerate, Blitz, Firewave, Plaguebomb) so whynot Inversion? It is a lvl 60 skill after all, and Samurais have the worst skillset right now in the game. (2 good sammy skills, 1 good warrior skill). Add a warm-up for Inversion, 1.5 sec or something. Other melee classes have nukes and Inversion is only good if the opponent used mana, no stam and if the target had little mana left. If you see "EtKEnn begins to use Inversion" simply Replenish, DarkRitual, silence, bash etc.

As for level 55, the passive ability Jinder mentioned sounds good.

None of those skills listed(except firewave, but the damage is extremely conditional) do 300 damage. All of those skills were given to low armored specs, because low armored specs are intended to have high nukage.

I think that you mean that you want the % scaled because of the hp/damage scaling. Caster specs have on average around 175 mana. If the average caster was down to 0 mana and you were doing a 50% of mana down, you would be doing 87.5 damage. I'm guessing that you would want this to also be getting scaled, to 500%. If the average caster was down to 50% mana and they were inversioned the inversion would do 437.5 damage.

If a wizard was down to half mana(me) it would be insane. Wizard has 747 max hp, max of around 230 mana (high due to high mana costs). So half mana(down 115 mana) 115*500%/100=575 damage. 747-575=182. If a wizard was iversioned at half mana it would basically kill them, and at half mana it would be more than double the current largest single nuke.

My opinion on this is that inversion should not come back. Sammy is pretty good off atm, they have almost ninja base sword damage, decent armor and decent mobility. However i do understand tht playing sammy might get repetetive due to lack of variety. The skills that are currently useful are only bash, one, bleed, mortalwound and bladegrasp. I do not think that sammys need a buff, i think they need more of a variety of skills.

Sammys are currently very well of, they are in no way underpowered. Keep in mind that they are no intended to kill caster specs, so i do not think the return of somethig that 1 hits them would fix anything. The conbination of bleed and one should be enough to kill casters.

(Slightly biased opinion due to being a caster, but just stating my opinion)
Please excuse spelling errors, i am typing this on my phone.

 

[Jinder745]

None of those skills listed(except firewave, but the damage is extremely conditional) do 300 damage. All of those skills were given to low armored specs, because low armored specs are intended to have high nukage.

I think that you mean that you want the % scaled because of the hp/damage scaling. Caster specs have on average around 175 mana. If the average caster was down to 0 mana and you were doing a 50% of mana down, you would be doing 87.5 damage. I'm guessing that you would want this to also be getting scaled, to 500%. If the average caster was down to 50% mana and they were inversioned the inversion would do 437.5 damage.

If a wizard was down to half mana(me) it would be insane. Wizard has 747 max hp, max of around 230 mana (high due to high mana costs). So half mana(down 115 mana) 115*500%/100=575 damage. 747-575=182. If a wizard was iversioned at half mana it would basically kill them, and at half mana it would be more than double the current largest single nuke.

My opinion on this is that inversion should not come back. Sammy is pretty good off atm, they have almost ninja base sword damage, decent armor and decent mobility. However i do understand tht playing sammy might get repetetive due to lack of variety. The skills that are currently useful are only bash, one, bleed, mortalwound and bladegrasp. I do not think that sammys need a buff, i think they need more of a variety of skills.

Sammys are currently very well of, they are in no way underpowered. Keep in mind that they are no intended to kill caster specs, so i do not think the return of somethig that 1 hits them would fix anything. The conbination of bleed and one should be enough to kill casters.

(Slightly biased opinion due to being a caster, but just stating my opinion)
Please excuse spelling errors, i am typing this on my phone.

SHUT CHO MUTHA FUCKING MOUTH N****

 

[victim130]

None of those skills listed(except firewave, but the damage is extremely conditional) do 300 damage. All of those skills were given to low armored specs, because low armored specs are intended to have high nukage.

I think that you mean that you want the % scaled because of the hp/damage scaling. Caster specs have on average around 175 mana. If the average caster was down to 0 mana and you were doing a 50% of mana down, you would be doing 87.5 damage. I'm guessing that you would want this to also be getting scaled, to 500%. If the average caster was down to 50% mana and they were inversioned the inversion would do 437.5 damage.

If a wizard was down to half mana(me) it would be insane. Wizard has 747 max hp, max of around 230 mana (high due to high mana costs). So half mana(down 115 mana) 115*500%/100=575 damage. 747-575=182. If a wizard was iversioned at half mana it would basically kill them, and at half mana it would be more than double the current largest single nuke.

My opinion on this is that inversion should not come back. Sammy is pretty good off atm, they have almost ninja base sword damage, decent armor and decent mobility. However i do understand tht playing sammy might get repetetive due to lack of variety. The skills that are currently useful are only bash, one, bleed, mortalwound and bladegrasp. I do not think that sammys need a buff, i think they need more of a variety of skills.

Sammys are currently very well of, they are in no way underpowered. Keep in mind that they are no intended to kill caster specs, so i do not think the return of somethig that 1 hits them would fix anything. The conbination of bleed and one should be enough to kill casters.

(Slightly biased opinion due to being a caster, but just stating my opinion)
Please excuse spelling errors, i am typing this on my phone.

Yeah I'm starting to think we may just have 2 useless skills in the way of underpower, but I think the real problem at the moment is that other classes are above us. Like the Ninja Nuke (7 Hearts instantly) The VERY situational Firewave of Pyro and Runeblade, DK can dish tons of damage out, steal hp and just never die and as far as something that can beat samurai, Wizards are pretty even at the moment and I hardly see Necros. Oh and Beguiler may need a slight change in the plague bomb CD or damage output, I mean I REALIZE burst is all they have, but being cc'd and kill within the burst is a little unbalanced imo. SO I think maybe Samurai needs a slight rework in skills, but the real problem is other classes have strong outputs that might need a nerf? Still not sure of this though since I'm only coming from my aspect.

Though, I still think being cc'd with a stun, disarm or hefty slow is retarded, it cancels one and bladegrasp completely which leaves us underhanded by a lot.

 

[Fjordsen]

macura - "You are not supposed to kill casters" Well excuse me mister "balance team member", Ninjas have 2 anti-warrior nukes that deal an instant 7 hearts to a samurai. Combine that with a stun and we're dead before the fight can even start. Same for Runeblades.

Right now there lies no skills using Ninja or Runeblade. Every single Ninja and Runeblade i've fought have been absolutely trashed, then they use their Godmode nukes and instant kills me when I have 5+ hearts and they have like 1 left. Most Runeblades are saying "We are just using Firewave as much as possible before it gets removed" and ninjas are saying "If Eviscerate and Blitz gets removed, I can't play Ninja anymore". I mean seriously, a Ninja yesterday was complaining about how he could easily kill all warriors but DK. Ninjas are currently Ninja>Caster Ninja> warrior Ninja> Healer.

c12095
Lets look at how the leveling progress for ninjas, they learn one new skills every 5 levels. 5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55,60.
Samurai: 10,20,30,40,49,60
Samurais are learning 6 skills, whereas ninjas learn 12. I should also mention that Cleave and Berserk is crap. Mortalwound doesn't work well against anything but paladins and healers (the stam costs!), Bleed is our most efficient skill as it only takes 6 stam, bladegrasp is a good skill but should block 100%. Whenever I use it, my opponent always get 1-3 hits on me still. One is useful for kiting and catching enemies, however how MC works makes us unable to actually hit someone if they are sprinting away from us and we are in their back, so it's not super useful.

It leaves us samurais with 2 good skills (Bleed, Bladegrasp), 2 decent (One, MortalWound) and two crappy skills (Cleave, Berserk).

Samurais used to depend on actual skills we learn at 50+, but now a lvl 20 samurai got all skills needed to beat a 60 samurai except pure sword damage. It's just wrong. Right now we are a heavily armored rogue (Heavily after rogue standards, chainmail is shit) with few skills and lower damage then the other rogues except bard. Give us some more armor or something, the second lowest armored warrior has twice as good armor and only 14dmg less in melee, ridicolous!

 

[c12095]

Ok, for all Samurai's that have been complaining, here are the real numbers.

First off, this imaginary 7 heart instant damage is total BS and it needs to stop.

Ninja Damage

Eviscerate is an Instant Cast dealing 201 damage and a 20 second CD.

Blitz has a Warm-Up of 1 second and deals 210 damage and a 30 second CD.

(Here we are already broken this imaginary Instant Cast 7 heart theory)

This does a total of 411 damage, no where near the 700 that has been exaggerated here.

Now for Samurai Damage

Bleed damage deals 150 damage over 15 seconds with about a 3 second CD

MortalWound (The only real issue) is dealing incorrect damage. Last time I adjusted Samurai MortalWound was supposed to deal true damage, however when tested it was still affected by armor. It deals a total of 177 damage to unarmored targets, or around 120 to Ninjas. It cost around 3-4 stamina and has around a 5 second CD.

Thats a total of 270 over 20 seconds. Use them both twice (Around exact CD timers like you should be) You have 540 over 40 seconds. Thats damage you don't even have to be there for.

Now for Melee Damage

The Ninja Melee Attack with a Diamond Sword is 107.

The Samurai Melee Attack with a Diamond Sword is 92 damage.

Now for Armor Reduction

The Ninja Armor reduces about 32% from a melee attack.

The Samurai Armor reduces about 49% from a melee attack.

Do the math

The Ninja Basic Attack will deal 54 damage to a Samurai

The Samurai Basic Attack will deal around 62 damage to a Ninja

Lastly, Health Pools

A Ninja has 924 Max Health

A Samurai has 986 Max Health

Time for a fight

Starting out, a Ninja will most likely initiate with an Eviscerate, so thats 201 damage right off the bat. (986-201=785)

The Samurai should be retuning the favor with a Bleed & MortalWound combo, dealing 270 damage over 20 seconds.

The Ninja will most likely be attempting to Blitz the Samurai, however it has a Warm-Up. If the ninja were paying attention they could Bash off the Blitz dealing 93 damage and taking 2.5 Stamina.

This will prevent the Ninja from dealing that extra 210 right away, allowing the Samurai to continue to beat on the Ninja when casting.

If the Ninja attempts to recast Blitz, you can choose to let it cast, or use another 2.5 stamina. Personally I would use the Stamina, this allows you to continue basic attacking without fear of returning damage.

However at the point of 2 bashed, the Ninja should realize he can't risk doing this much longer and start hitting back.

Now, damage based here, the Samurai should be down to the 785 discussed, but lets add two basic attack in so 677 health.

The Ninja will have ate part of two bleeds, so lets say around 150 damage, along with three basic attacks, so( 942-150-186=606)

Now we are down to Auto Attacks for a little bit. So we have around 20ish seconds before Eviscerate is off CD, so you both better be hitting with your swords.

Now seeing as Eviscerate has around 20 seconds left, that means about 10 seconds of the fight has past.

Here is where it comes down to skill, you better be able to strafe, or you will die.

The Ninja has two tools that can help in this situation, Blackjack and Envenom

The Samurai has one tool that can help in this situation, Bladegrasp.

Lets go ahead and say after 2 Auto Attacks that the Ninja landed a Blackjack. However this also means the Samurai got around 2 hits also. Samurai-(677-108=569) Ninja-(606-124=482)

Now the Ninja better be smart enough to start casting Blitz, and this time lets say it goes off.
Samurai-(569-210=359)

The Samurai better realize that theres an issue here and pop Bladegrasp (Which blocks 100% of Basic Attacks for 5 seconds.)

The Samurai can get an easy 4-5 hits off before Bladegrasp wears off with the assistant of One to keep up with a Blackflip. So lets add up four hits. Ninja-(482-216=270) But, by this time both bleeds should have finished, I added in 150 of the 270 damage, so lets add the other 120. (270-120=150)

I'll leave the rest of this fight to your imagination, however these completely exaggerated complaints need to stop. Do the math, don't start threads like this until there is a real issue that needs to be addressed.

 

[jazza411]

-snip-

You did not add disarm to your equations.