Suggestion My Take on a Ninja Rework

[BrusLi44]

What about a change to the "new" fade.
Would be cool if you only lose mana while walking/running (no cost on standing) , but if you stand still for 30s(or less) you re-appear.

Also, it would be cool if smoke/fade was like this .
Some other "decoy" skills would be nice .

 

[Ahrall]

Long duration invisibility is definitely a cool feature that I would love to see added to the class. The only issue I would foresee with a long duration invisibility stems from the attached slowness debuff. Unfortunately though the slowness debuff is necessary for the balance of a skill such as this.

Explanation:

• Long duration stealth (with slowness) is excellent for initiation into a fight. Nobody will know you are coming and you are always guaranteed to have the first strike.
• Long duration slowness stealth is "ok" in teamfights. The abundance of AoE skills will probably knock you out of it if you stay too close to the action but it does allow you to engage on whatever target you please. Fights in herocraft also tend to "roll" meaning that by the time one side is a decided victor you are probably 50-100 blocks away from where the fight started which will make things agonizing if you try to stealth up in the middle of the fight.
• Long duration slowness stealth is terrible in 1v1 or small skirmishes. You disappear and all I have to do is walk away. You can't catch me. I heal up and wait for your stealth to pop (because you aren't going far) and reengage on you before you have a chance to eat.

All of the above issues, unfortunately stem from the fact that you are only going to be moving at half speed.

• Short duration (non slowness stealth) is terrible for initiation. You are invisible for three seconds and it breaks on any skill cast. You wont sneak up on anyone with that.
• Short duration full speed stealth is "ok in teamfights. It lets you instantly drop aggro and re-position, but that's about it and again you have to be careful when you use it or you will just get AoEd out. Also the chat flies so fast that it is difficult to use to break targeted skills
• Short duration full speed stealth is excellent for 1v1 and small skirmishes. Being able to re-position and break targeted skills on yourself is an amazing skill in a small fight

Honestly if we are already planning on removing bow/arrows, grappling hook, and garrote why can we not have both types of stealth. Fade as a skill is already pretty useless unless you are using it to escape or hide outside of someone's door (neither of which will help you win a fight) Loosing out on the utility of the bow should warrant adding utility in another field. So why can't we do both types of stealth? Implementing the described fade change and keeping the current smoke wont necessarily make the class stronger but it will help to make the ninja feel more ninja

Another important thing to take note of is the game developer's (@Kainzo ) stance on stealth. For example WoW did not want spammable short duration stealth for their rogue where Guild Wars did not want long duration stealth for their thief and then Wildstar settled for a hodgepodge mix of the two

 

[Egorh]

Long duration invisibility is definitely a cool feature that I would love to see added to the class. The only issue I would foresee with a long duration invisibility stems from the attached slowness debuff. Unfortunately though the slowness debuff is necessary for the balance of a skill such as this.

Explanation:

• Long duration stealth (with slowness) is excellent for initiation into a fight. Nobody will know you are coming and you are always guaranteed to have the first strike.
• Long duration slowness stealth is "ok" in teamfights. The abundance of AoE skills will probably knock you out of it if you stay too close to the action but it does allow you to engage on whatever target you please. Fights in herocraft also tend to "roll" meaning that by the time one side is a decided victor you are probably 50-100 blocks away from where the fight started which will make things agonizing if you try to stealth up in the middle of the fight.
• Long duration slowness stealth is terrible in 1v1 or small skirmishes. You disappear and all I have to do is walk away. You can't catch me. I heal up and wait for your stealth to pop (because you aren't going far) and reengage on you before you have a chance to eat.

All of the above issues, unfortunately stem from the fact that you are only going to be moving at half speed.

• Short duration (non slowness stealth) is terrible for initiation. You are invisible for three seconds and it breaks on any skill cast. You wont sneak up on anyone with that.
• Short duration full speed stealth is "ok in teamfights. It lets you instantly drop aggro and re-position, but that's about it and again you have to be careful when you use it or you will just get AoEd out. Also the chat flies so fast that it is difficult to use to break targeted skills
• Short duration full speed stealth is excellent for 1v1 and small skirmishes. Being able to re-position and break targeted skills on yourself is an amazing skill in a small fight

Honestly if we are already planning on removing bow/arrows, grappling hook, and garrote why can we not have both types of stealth. Fade as a skill is already pretty useless unless you are using it to escape or hide outside of someone's door (neither of which will help you win a fight) Loosing out on the utility of the bow should warrant adding utility in another field. So why can't we do both types of stealth? Implementing the described fade change and keeping the current smoke wont necessarily make the class stronger but it will help to make the ninja feel more ninja

Another important thing to take note of is the game developer's (@Kainzo ) stance on stealth. For example WoW did not want spammable short duration stealth for their rogue where Guild Wars did not want long duration stealth for their thief and then Wildstar settled for a hodgepodge mix of the two

I was thinking about the mexican taco girl who says "Why not both?!". The only problem we may run into, is balance issues.

And a question: Are you expecting the short invisible combined with the aoe blind/nausea or a separate skill? The aoe cc skill would not be able to have a 15s CD like you mentioned somewhere earlier.

 

[Ahrall]

The AoE blind/nausea might* warrant the current 30 second cooldown. Playtesting would be required though, not entirely sure if blind/nausea would make that big of an impact in a fight. Again, see despair

 

[Pugglez_]

Maybe it's just me but nausea does impact a lot, especially against classes that rely on ranged skills. Not sure exactly but I heard blind doesn't even work(like only the silenced part of it works but I heard that optifine makes it so you can see through the blindness). How is this so? I've been in other servers and even with optifine blind debuff still works against me. However, from the last time I got blinded in Herocraft through a skill, I could see it.

 

[MrFly007]

Bump

Ninja needs changing

 

[Egorh]

Bump again

 

[Xhazed]

Nija is sooo bad like really, i wish they would make it super sneak like a 1 minute smoke with a CD of like 80 sec or something of that aspect