Suggestion My Take on a Ninja Rework

[Egorh]

After playing Ninja for a decent amount of time I can say that the class is very fun but only somewhat effective in the majority of situations.

Pros

• If you get any sneak backstabs off on a squishy class they can say good bye to their health
• Strong against most casters/healers due to: EscapeArtist, Kick, Smoke, Blind
• Very strong mobility

Cons

• No teamfight presence: No AOE skills, Smoke is easily dealt with due to large amount of AOEs, the damage output if very situational (it is unlikely that you will be able to get to their backline's back)
• Very situational damage: The majority of Ninja's high damage is from Backstab but there isn't 'enough' to get off the amount of backstabs needed (unless you successfully sneak up on someone)
• Gets demolished by Warriors and Tanky classes
• Not stealthy enough
• Reagents: To fight at your full potential you need to carry a lot of different things on you (6 different things-not including a primary weapon)
  • Gunpowder (Smoke and Blitz)
  • String (GrapplingHook and Garrote)
  • Bow
  • Arrows
  • Compass (Deathmark)
  • Flint (Shurikens)

Overall my goal with this rework is to make the class more 'appealing' and useful in more than 1 or 2 scenarios. Some of the ideas are mine, but other skills/ideas come from other people. And of course take away some

Remove

• Garrote
• GrapplingHook
• Bow and Arrow use
• Blind
• Smoke
• Current Fade

Change

• Blitz
• Eviscerate
• EscapeArtist

New

• SmokeBomb
• Kasarigama
• New Fade (same name but new skill)

Remove

Garrote

• A very useless skill, in my time as Ninja I have only used this skill once and my goal was trolling
• Just adds on to the amount of reagents Ninja needs

GrapplingHook

• Ninja has enough mobility with only Backflip
• Makes room for a more unique skill
• Another reagent needed

Bow and Arrow Usage

• Needed for GrapplingHook
• More stuff to carry on you
• Makes room for more 'uniqueness'

Smoke, Fade, and Blind

• Removing allows for a better 'stealth' for Ninja
• Useful in 1v1s but practically unnoticeable in group fights

Change


Blitz

• Ninja has very little to deal with heavily armored targets (other than eviscerate and kiting with a lot of shurikens) so it was a question of how to make Ninja do a bit better against Warriors but not increase their chances against casters even more. It could scale with armor or health but I choose to use armor
• Increase range by 3 blocks
• Cut base damage in half (150 / 2 = 75)
• Add 1.5 damage per armor weight (15 damage per 10 armor weight)
  • Average caster has about 40 armor weight: 75 + 1.5(40) = 135. It is doing less damage to casters/lightly armored targets
  • 70 armor weight: 75 + 1.5(70) = 180. More damage against heavily armored targets

EscapeArtist

• Since this skill does not work on the most threatening CCs (stuns and piggifys) it does not deserve a 2 min cooldown
• Lower cooldown to 1 min (from 2 min)

Eviscerate

• Ninja's damage can be very overwhelming is they catch you off guard and this change is meant to remove some of that damage from the main burst
• 25% of the damage will be dealt over the duration of 5s as physical damage (not piercing)

New

SmokeBomb

• Since Ninja barely has any prescence in a group fight the only incentive to actually have one if you are more serious PvPers is to hunt people down. An AOE blind and nausea is a viable option to choose in an organized group fight/tournament
• Cost: 300 stamina, 50 mana
• Warmup: 1s
• Cooldown: 35s
• You throw a smoke bomb at your feet blinding enemies within 7 blocks for 2.5s (+0.05s per point of charisma). Anyone hit is also disoriented (nausea) for 10s after the blind.

Kasarigama

• The main problem I run into while chasing people is that even though you have backflip you can only get 1 or 2 hits in before you knock them away again. This skill is mean't to assist in chasing/fighting with the removal of: Bows, arrows, and grapplinghook
• Cost: 300 stamina
• Cooldown: 20s
• You throw a shuriken at your target. If it lands they are rooted 1s (+0.075 per point of charisma). After the root's duration is over (not when the root is broken by a mob or player) it pulls the target towards you.

Fade

• A better way to go about making Ninja 'Stealthy'. Although you can keep invisible for a long(ish) time Ninja's pathetic mana regeneration will help with limiting what you can do.
• Cost: 100 stamina, 75 mana
  • When activated: 20 mana per second (-1 mana per 5 intellect)
• Warmup: 2s
• Cooldown: 45s
• You hide your presence going invisible. While invisible you lose 20 mana per second and have Slow II. Any unstealthy (taking damage, dealing damage, most skill. Moving will not break stealth) will cause you to reappear

None of the numbers in this thread are final and can change at any moment. I do not expect this rework to be done either due to the fact that there is no one to do it. It is simply my 2 cents on what needs to happen with Ninja.

Tagging the well known Ninja's: @Ahrall @Im_a_Pickle

 

[ChazzaMaGazza]

An idea i had with ninja could be this:

Skill name: Sharpen

Cost: 150 stamina

Info: For 6 seconds [+0.05 per strength]. Your blade will slice through armor and cause the target to bleed, causing them to take 5 [ +0.01 per agility point] damage as they move every block.


The idea of this is to make it more strong against warriors and give the ninja an edge in battle, also good in a group fight because anyone you hit for the X amount of time will pierce there armor. This skill could replace grappling hook as @TrueCorruptor stated in the op.

This is just an idea and I'm sure I will make changes.

Feel free to make suggestions.

 

[MichaelRL]

I had a idea a while back. It went like this. Idk what to call it so neo-fade
Cost: what ever Stam
Cd: 45
You go invis Until you are hit or do Dmg or 30 secs. But after becoming visible again you come back to where you started your faded.

So you could fade in front of your target hit them in the back turning them around then hit them in the back again.

 

[LightningCape]

@malikdanab
The toggle smoke thing always comtes up :/

Tip- grapplinghook is super broken if you use it as a pull. Those skill shots

 

[malikdanab]

The "chain" skill reminds me of the japanese chain and sickle (kasarigama). What if the first hit was a root (as if you tied them up like a bola) then if you didn't miss, the second hit pulls them in.

 

[Ahrall]

All in all I like most of the changes so I will only comment on those that I have a difference of opinion on. No need for me to echo what you have already stated.

Reagents:
Having to carry too many reagents does absolutely suck but the loss of bow+arrows will have to accompany some added utility in a different field. The power of being able to seamlessly transition from melee to ranged is a very powerful tool that, while it is costly, I would be sad to see go.

Grappling Hook.
Now this is interesting, from a balance standpoint if ninja was to get more utility in other areas (anti armor etc etc) I could see grappling hook getting the ax. That being said grappling hook is an excellent addition to a ninja's kit and a genuinely fun skill. Could go both ways, I would like to see it stay, but I would rather have no grappling hook and a viable class.

Smoke (And Fade)
This is the only proposed change that I don't* like. Adding the AoE blind? Great addition, a lot of other games do this (and tbh blind isn't that great in herocraft) but the removal of the instant on-demand invisibility would take out so much from the class. Now I know that the fade change is meant to counterbalance this but it is a step in the wrong direction.
Out-of-combat stealth is cool and all, but it turns the class more from a ninja to a rogue (WoW rogue) which from what I've heard is not the class' direction. A class can be stealthy with in combat skills too, I will point everyone again to the Guild Wars 2 thief. A class that did not have a press-5-and-move-slower-but-be-invisible skill like traditional "rogues" but still spent a good 1/3rd of their fight in stealth.
If we are going to change smoke I suggest that we add the AoE blind (great addition to the skill) and either A: Increase the stealth duration, or B: Decrease the cooldown by around 10-15 seconds. Either of these two changes would make ninja more stealthy without needing to add a completely fresh skill

Chain (the Scorpion skill)
Grappling hook already does this, and while putting it on a shuriken would make it easier it would also make it almost impossible to kite a ninja. Yes grappling hook is hard to land and requires to lot of reagents, but to shout "get over here!" in teamspeak as you drag some poor bastard 40 blocks back to you is definitely worth it. Chain would be cool, but unnecessary seeing as grappling hook already accomplishes this.

Quality of Life Changes:

• Stealth is no longer broken on damage. 3 seconds of smoke every 30 seconds (20 seconds is we decrease the cooldown) that is broken on any form of damage really sucks and to be very honest I don't know the reasoning behind this.
• Decrease base left click damage, shift the lost damage onto abilities. This would allow ninja to have greater burst without actually decreasing their damage output.
• Change strength scaling on skills to agility. At the moment ninjas need to build a lot of strength, agility, and the defensive stats. If we could forgo strength in favor of intellect to increase the damage of envenom/blitz this would keep the ninja's overall damage the same and provide better anti armor capabilities. Why? Envenom ignores armor and with 30 intellect you would be adding an additional 7.5 armor ignoring damage to your attacks for its duration. (30 points into strength only nets you an additional 10.5 damage) Plus the added damage on blitz would help immensely against \warriors while making up for the lost left click damage against casters.

Class Role:
It is a sad fact of life that in games like this, squishy, melee, assassin classes tend to suck in group fights unless they have stupid crazy burst (runeblade) The cleave pretty much destroys squishies while break-on-damage stealth becomes useless due to, again, the cleave. Old ninja was good because of how much damage they could upfront in a blackjack, but that is never coming back for good reason. In group fights I tend to find someone sitting in the backgrounds, that ranger on the hill, that wizard on that house, and either kill them quickly or at barebone minimum stop them from free-firing into the mosh. That being said with squishy classes becoming practically nonexistant due to the popularity and strength of tanks and healers the ninja is really hurting for purpose.
If ninja is to become viable in teamfights it will need the insane good-against-all-classes burst of a runeblade. Supportish utility through blinds will not make the ninja a viable teamfight class. Think about this: a good despair will most likely not change the outcome of a fight, but a runeblade dumping 600 damage from three fire runes into somebody will definitely change the way a fight is played out. And while ninja can do a respectable 350 damage burst from eviscerate + blitz, their contribution to a group fight all but dissapears after that

 

[monkeyfatzer]

Just add this guys ultimate/r and there we go ninja is all good.

 

[malikdanab]

All in all I like most of the changes so I will only comment on those that I have a difference of opinion on. No need for me to echo what you have already stated.

Reagents:
Having to carry too many reagents does absolutely suck but the loss of bow+arrows will have to accompany some added utility in a different field. The power of being able to seamlessly transition from melee to ranged is a very powerful tool that, while it is costly, I would be sad to see go.

Grappling Hook.
Now this is interesting, from a balance standpoint if ninja was to get more utility in other areas (anti armor etc etc) I could see grappling hook getting the ax. That being said grappling hook is an excellent addition to a ninja's kit and a genuinely fun skill. Could go both ways, I would like to see it stay, but I would rather have no grappling hook and a viable class.

Smoke (And Fade)
This is the only proposed change that I don't* like. Adding the AoE blind? Great addition, a lot of other games do this (and tbh blind isn't that great in herocraft) but the removal of the instant on-demand invisibility would take out so much from the class. Now I know that the fade change is meant to counterbalance this but it is a step in the wrong direction.
Out-of-combat stealth is cool and all, but it turns the class more from a ninja to a rogue (WoW rogue) which from what I've heard is not the class' direction. A class can be stealthy with in combat skills too, I will point everyone again to the Guild Wars 2 thief. A class that did not have a press-5-and-move-slower-but-be-invisible skill like traditional "rogues" but still spent a good 1/3rd of their fight in stealth.
If we are going to change smoke I suggest that we add the AoE blind (great addition to the skill) and either A: Increase the stealth duration, or B: Decrease the cooldown by around 10-15 seconds. Either of these two changes would make ninja more stealthy without needing to add a completely fresh skill

Chain (the Scorpion skill)
Grappling hook already does this, and while putting it on a shuriken would make it easier it would also make it almost impossible to kite a ninja. Yes grappling hook is hard to land and requires to lot of reagents, but to shout "get over here!" in teamspeak as you drag some poor bastard 40 blocks back to you is definitely worth it. Chain would be cool, but unnecessary seeing as grappling hook already accomplishes this.

Quality of Life Changes:

• Stealth is no longer broken on damage. 3 seconds of smoke every 30 seconds (20 seconds is we decrease the cooldown) that is broken on any form of damage really sucks and to be very honest I don't know the reasoning behind this.
• Decrease base left click damage, shift the lost damage onto abilities. This would allow ninja to have greater burst without actually decreasing their damage output.
• Change strength scaling on skills to agility. At the moment ninjas need to build a lot of strength, agility, and the defensive stats. If we could forgo strength in favor of intellect to increase the damage of envenom/blitz this would keep the ninja's overall damage the same and provide better anti armor capabilities. Why? Envenom ignores armor and with 30 intellect you would be adding an additional 7.5 armor ignoring damage to your attacks for its duration. (30 points into strength only nets you an additional 10.5 damage) Plus the added damage on blitz would help immensely against \warriors while making up for the lost left click damage against casters.

Class Role:
It is a sad fact of life that in games like this, squishy, melee, assassin classes tend to suck in group fights unless they have stupid crazy burst (runeblade) The cleave pretty much destroys squishies while break-on-damage stealth becomes useless due to, again, the cleave. Old ninja was good because of how much damage they could upfront in a blackjack, but that is never coming back for good reason. In group fights I tend to find someone sitting in the backgrounds, that ranger on the hill, that wizard on that house, and either kill them quickly or at barebone minimum stop them from free-firing into the mosh. That being said with squishy classes becoming practically nonexistant due to the popularity and strength of tanks and healers the ninja is really hurting for purpose.
If ninja is to become viable in teamfights it will need the insane good-against-all-classes burst of a runeblade. Supportish utility through blinds will not make the ninja a viable teamfight class. Think about this: a good despair will most likely not change the outcome of a fight, but a runeblade dumping 600 damage from three fire runes into somebody will definitely change the way a fight is played out. And while ninja can do a respectable 350 damage burst from eviscerate + blitz, their contribution to a group fight all but dissapears after that

Note, runeblade has horrible burst and does poorly in group fights. 3 fire runes is 240 damage plus 120 melee it also takes 1.5 seconds to apply the runes. The problem with assasin classes atm is that they can't "assasinate" fast enough before the warrior takes them out. This doesn't mean that rogues should deal more damage. The problem is that HCs combat is too slow for a hit-n-run class.

 

[Ice_Burner]

Personally I'll have to disagree with giving Ninja viability in team fights, as, even if it's just one AoE, its other skills are more made for single fights.

However, there are a lot of these re-work ideas that I like. Some of them I don't.

Re-Agents:
Seeing as how Ninja carries tons of re-agents around ((Flint, String, Gunpowder, and a Compass or two)) to use several of their skills, it craps on their viability in solo fights seeing as how if you don't have a certain material, you're not going to be using your burst to your full potential.

However, I think it's necessary, seeing as how off the top of my head Ranger also uses many re-agents((And other classes as well? Can't think of any right off the bat.))

As well as having same/similar skills which require said re-agents, I believe that if Ninja gets the re-agents removed then so should every other class.

Stealth/Smoke and Fade:
I like the ideas of a re-work on this skill. Personally I believe Smoke should be renamed to SmokeBomb, seeing as how Ninjas in old times used smoke bombs to confuse their enemies and to get away from a sticky situation. Smoke would need a rework as well before being renamed. Ninjas need enough stealth to go up to a person while they're unawares, and then start their burst on them. Get some backstabs on them as well. Increase the stealth duration on Smoke so they have enough room to breathe.

Fade.... my suggestion for a re-work on this skill would be to make it like Druid's/Ranger's Camouflage: If the Ninja stands in a certain light level, they go invisible for 30 seconds. Breaks the stealth if you move or the light level goes up higher.

GrapplingHook and Chain:
I'd love to see the skill Chain be a thing. But then again you'd need to limit the range so you don't go dragging some person from 40 blocks away. This skill could easily replace Grapple in combat, and quite possibly replace it as a whole. I'm fine with Ninja losing mobility seeing as how they have plenty of mobility already.

Garrote:
Plain and simple: Re-work this into a viable silence, or just remove it. I've never played Ninja but I've never seen any Ninja use it. My suggestion is to re-make this skill to something lore-friendly but still adds a silence to Ninja.

Changes (Evisicrate, Blitz, EscapeArtist):
I agree with these suggested changes. The only thing I'd suggest its to have EscapeArtist do either: 75% chance of escape from CC or have a smaller cooldown.

Blinds:
Blinds, if used right can be made to make a getaway from an enemy or to go in behind them and backstab them. However, the current Blind has a small duration. Don't replace Blind, give it a buff to either: Have a smaller CD, or make the Blind duration a bit longer.

Just my two cents. Personally I'd love to see this re-work come into effect.

Overall, I like this idea of a re-work for Ninja

 

[MichaelRL]

Personally I'll have to disagree with giving Ninja viability in team fights, as, even if it's just one AoE, its other skills are more made for single fights.

However, there are a lot of these re-work ideas that I like. Some of them I don't.

Re-Agents:
Seeing as how Ninja carries tons of re-agents around ((Flint, String, Gunpowder, and a Compass or two)) to use several of their skills, it craps on their viability in solo fights seeing as how if you don't have a certain material, you're not going to be using your burst to your full potential.

However, I think it's necessary, seeing as how off the top of my head Ranger also uses many re-agents((And other classes as well? Can't think of any right off the bat.))

As well as having same/similar skills which require said re-agents, I believe that if Ninja gets the re-agents removed then so should every other class.

Stealth/Smoke and Fade:
I like the ideas of a re-work on this skill. Personally I believe Smoke should be renamed to SmokeBomb, seeing as how Ninjas in old times used smoke bombs to confuse their enemies and to get away from a sticky situation. Smoke would need a rework as well before being renamed. Ninjas need enough stealth to go up to a person while they're unawares, and then start their burst on them. Get some backstabs on them as well. Increase the stealth duration on Smoke so they have enough room to breathe.

Fade.... my suggestion for a re-work on this skill would be to make it like Druid's/Ranger's Camouflage: If the Ninja stands in a certain light level, they go invisible for 30 seconds. Breaks the stealth if you move or the light level goes up higher.

GrapplingHook and Chain:
I'd love to see the skill Chain be a thing. But then again you'd need to limit the range so you don't go dragging some person from 40 blocks away. This skill could easily replace Grapple in combat, and quite possibly replace it as a whole. I'm fine with Ninja losing mobility seeing as how they have plenty of mobility already.

Garrote:
Plain and simple: Re-work this into a viable silence, or just remove it. I've never played Ninja but I've never seen any Ninja use it. My suggestion is to re-make this skill to something lore-friendly but still adds a silence to Ninja.

Changes (Evisicrate, Blitz, EscapeArtist):
I agree with these suggested changes. The only thing I'd suggest its to have EscapeArtist do either: 75% chance of escape from CC or have a smaller cooldown.

Blinds:
Blinds, if used right can be made to make a getaway from an enemy or to go in behind them and backstab them. However, the current Blind has a small duration. Don't replace Blind, give it a buff to either: Have a smaller CD, or make the Blind duration a bit longer.

Just my two cents. Personally I'd love to see this re-work come into effect.

Overall, I like this idea of a re-work for Ninja

Lol fade is already like that

 

[Egorh]

All in all I like most of the changes so I will only comment on those that I have a difference of opinion on. No need for me to echo what you have already stated.

Reagents:
Having to carry too many reagents does absolutely suck but the loss of bow+arrows will have to accompany some added utility in a different field. The power of being able to seamlessly transition from melee to ranged is a very powerful tool that, while it is costly, I would be sad to see go.

Grappling Hook.
Now this is interesting, from a balance standpoint if ninja was to get more utility in other areas (anti armor etc etc) I could see grappling hook getting the ax. That being said grappling hook is an excellent addition to a ninja's kit and a genuinely fun skill. Could go both ways, I would like to see it stay, but I would rather have no grappling hook and a viable class.

Smoke (And Fade)
This is the only proposed change that I don't* like. Adding the AoE blind? Great addition, a lot of other games do this (and tbh blind isn't that great in herocraft) but the removal of the instant on-demand invisibility would take out so much from the class. Now I know that the fade change is meant to counterbalance this but it is a step in the wrong direction.
Out-of-combat stealth is cool and all, but it turns the class more from a ninja to a rogue (WoW rogue) which from what I've heard is not the class' direction. A class can be stealthy with in combat skills too, I will point everyone again to the Guild Wars 2 thief. A class that did not have a press-5-and-move-slower-but-be-invisible skill like traditional "rogues" but still spent a good 1/3rd of their fight in stealth.
If we are going to change smoke I suggest that we add the AoE blind (great addition to the skill) and either A: Increase the stealth duration, or B: Decrease the cooldown by around 10-15 seconds. Either of these two changes would make ninja more stealthy without needing to add a completely fresh skill

Chain (the Scorpion skill)
Grappling hook already does this, and while putting it on a shuriken would make it easier it would also make it almost impossible to kite a ninja. Yes grappling hook is hard to land and requires to lot of reagents, but to shout "get over here!" in teamspeak as you drag some poor bastard 40 blocks back to you is definitely worth it. Chain would be cool, but unnecessary seeing as grappling hook already accomplishes this.

Quality of Life Changes:

• Stealth is no longer broken on damage. 3 seconds of smoke every 30 seconds (20 seconds is we decrease the cooldown) that is broken on any form of damage really sucks and to be very honest I don't know the reasoning behind this.
• Decrease base left click damage, shift the lost damage onto abilities. This would allow ninja to have greater burst without actually decreasing their damage output.
• Change strength scaling on skills to agility. At the moment ninjas need to build a lot of strength, agility, and the defensive stats. If we could forgo strength in favor of intellect to increase the damage of envenom/blitz this would keep the ninja's overall damage the same and provide better anti armor capabilities. Why? Envenom ignores armor and with 30 intellect you would be adding an additional 7.5 armor ignoring damage to your attacks for its duration. (30 points into strength only nets you an additional 10.5 damage) Plus the added damage on blitz would help immensely against \warriors while making up for the lost left click damage against casters.

Class Role:
It is a sad fact of life that in games like this, squishy, melee, assassin classes tend to suck in group fights unless they have stupid crazy burst (runeblade) The cleave pretty much destroys squishies while break-on-damage stealth becomes useless due to, again, the cleave. Old ninja was good because of how much damage they could upfront in a blackjack, but that is never coming back for good reason. In group fights I tend to find someone sitting in the backgrounds, that ranger on the hill, that wizard on that house, and either kill them quickly or at barebone minimum stop them from free-firing into the mosh. That being said with squishy classes becoming practically nonexistant due to the popularity and strength of tanks and healers the ninja is really hurting for purpose.
If ninja is to become viable in teamfights it will need the insane good-against-all-classes burst of a runeblade. Supportish utility through blinds will not make the ninja a viable teamfight class. Think about this: a good despair will most likely not change the outcome of a fight, but a runeblade dumping 600 damage from three fire runes into somebody will definitely change the way a fight is played out. And while ninja can do a respectable 350 damage burst from eviscerate + blitz, their contribution to a group fight all but dissapears after that

Reagents
Although I do switch between my bow and sword in the middle of combat the majority of Ninja's will not. Similar to Ranger: A ranger who can transition very well to their axe will do good. But unlike Ranger, Ninja only has 1 skill to go with fighting in their '2nd form' (using a bow): envenom. Maybe if Ninja had another skill or two to compliment Bow use I would want to keep it in but I'd rather see it go for more 'intersting' things

GrapplingHook
The main reason for the removal would be that the skill can't be used without a Bow and Arrow. In my opinion the skill is pretty OP. Can get away from practically everything. I'd like to see classes that only have one mobility skill each (Dragoon-Jump Disc-Flyingkick Berserker-Lunge Ninja-Backflip Ranger-GrapplingHook etc)

Smoke (and Fade)
My goal was to give Ninja someway to teamfight without just adding on damage. I completely forgot about Despair while typing up this rework and now that you mentioned it I realize it is just a weak version of a Necro skill. To help make it a bit stronger there could be a slowness effect OR a nausea effect that continues after the blind duration (you would be disoriented). My new fade suggestion would be a skill that can be used right after you backflip. A 2s warmup to stay invisible for as much mana you can spare is a strong skill. Use it to initiate, use it to position in the middle of the fight or use it to escape.

Although the instant invisible was great in some cases (avoiding a warmup skill's damage, quick jukes, etc), I feel as though a longer way to stay stealth and move will benefit the class more. You are fighting->Backflip away->Fade->Move to their back->Wack. That is something you will never be able to do with smoke due to its low duration

Chain
By tug I did not mean something on par with forcepull, toss, or spear. I probably should of thought of a better word to use but 'tug' was what came to my mind. The skill would pull them back only 1 or 2 blocks (think of someone hitting them from the direction they are running)

I am neutral on the Quality of Life changes

Class Role
I think Ninja's damage is in a good spot. You can still put out a good amount of single target damage in a fight (not as much as a Runeblade). Since it doesn't match the damage of a Runeblade it needs 'utility' in other places. In this case the AOE blind

Note, runeblade has horrible burst and does poorly in group fights. 3 fire runes is 240 damage plus 120 melee it also takes 1.5 seconds to apply the runes. The problem with assasin classes atm is that they can't "assasinate" fast enough before the warrior takes them out. This doesn't mean that rogues should deal more damage. The problem is that HCs combat is too slow for a hit-n-run class.

Runeblade does not have horrible burst. @Jpenguin dropped me in about 5s when I was not paying attention.

@malikdanab
The toggle smoke thing always comtes up :/

Tip- grapplinghook is super broken if you use it as a pull. Those skill shots

People struggle hitting arrows with BowStrength. Struggle even more without it. And then struggle even more to hit an arrow when its velocity is decreased. Although it may be a strong pull most people wont even try to go for it

The "chain" skill reminds me of the japanese chain and sickle (kasarigama). What if the first hit was a root (as if you tied them up like a bola) then if you didn't miss, the second hit pulls them in.

I like this, it would have to be a short root though. If it was long(ish) the Ninja would probably use the opportunity to get a free backstab or two.

 

[malikdanab]

Note- Burst and DPS are 2 different things. Wizard dealing 200+ damage with one spell is burst. A runeblade dealing 300 damage over 3 seconds is DPS. Sorry for the off topic post and if you wanted to know, ninja has both burst (Eviscerate/Blitz) and DPS (High melee).

 

[Jpenguin]

Note- Burst and DPS are 2 different things. Wizard dealing 200+ damage with one spell is burst. A runeblade dealing 300 damage over 3 seconds is DPS.

Question, how long have you played runeblade malik? Also, burst means a very large amount of damage in a short amount of time. I doubt you've played a single mmo if you get that wrong.

RB burst is about 500 damage if you do it correctly.

 

[malikdanab]

Question, how long have you played runeblade malik? Also, burst means a very large amount of damage in a short amount of time. I doubt you've played a single mmo if you get that wrong.

RB burst is about 500 damage if you do it correctly, and thats for me to know and you to find out.

RBs burst is dealing 6 runes over 5ish seconds. I consider that DPS not burst. The fact that all of runeblades individual skills makes it have bad burst, but since it can chain them together, it has good DPS.

 

[Jpenguin]

RBs burst is dealing 7 runes over 5ish seconds. I consider that DPS not burst. The fact that all of runeblades individual skills makes it have bad burst, but since it can chain them together, it has good DPS.

The main burst that RB has is the first 3 runes, after that it's just utility/dps. I'll get this back to ninja now, sorry for the distract.

 

[EnLight707]

off topic but I'd consider the first 3 runes of runeblade as burst then anything after as DPS (left clicks + other spells). The first few seconds is big chunks of damage with the active runes while everything else that follows is weaker, more consistent damage over time

 

[malikdanab]

off topic but I'd consider the first 3 runes of runeblade as burst then anything after as DPS (left clicks + other spells). The first few seconds is big chunks of damage with the active runes while everything else that follows is weaker, more consistent damage over time

That was my point, but anyway...NINJA

Other skills ideas-

Shadow Strike (Ain't it such an original name )​

• • Think flying kick that does piercing damage and can only be used when stealthed.

"Armor Piercing Skill"​

• • Passive armor piercing

Envenom Rework/New skill:​

• • Your left clicks deal stamina damage

 

[Ice_Burner]

Lol fade is already like that

I meant make Fade a little better... but I can understand why you'd think that seeing as how I didn't do much in description for the re-work of Fade

 

[HeroGuy426]

Oooohhhh I just got an idea. Idk if it's good, you guys decide. I also don't know if it's possible. But if it's possible, could a headshot with a shuriken or arrow blind the target?

 

[Egorh]

Updated a few things and BUMP!