Suggestion My Take on a Ninja Rework

[Egorh]

Changed Kasarigama because after talking with Naomi he made it clear that it would be too difficult to code if the skill worked that way.
Old Kasarigama

• The main problem I run into while chasing people is that even though you have backflip you can only get 1 or 2 hits in before you knock them away again. This skill is mean't to assist in chasing/fighting with the removal of: Bows, arrows, and grapplinghook
• Cost: 150 stamina for initial root, 150 stamina for pull in
• Cooldown: 20s
• You throw 2 shurikens (1 at a time). If a shuriken lands the target is rooted for 1.5s (+.1s per point of charisma). If the target is already rooted it pulls them back. If you miss a shuriken you regain 50 stamina

 

[JupiterRome]

I don't know if its just me (Probably is) but, I feel that many classes had their left click lowerd at the start of Haven, These Classes where Not (Don't think) Buffed to compensate for this change which made Non-Melee classes even stronger, Maybe Decrease Ninjas Skill Damage By a lot and Increase its melee damage (To a Shit ton like maybe 80ish) I just honestly feel like Ninja is in a good spot if it could actually lay a finger on warriors without getting its ass handed to it and then Crucified.

 

[Egorh]

I don't know if its just me (Probably is) but, I feel that many classes had their left click lowerd at the start of Haven, These Classes where Not (Don't think) Buffed to compensate for this change which made Non-Melee classes even stronger, Maybe Decrease Ninjas Skill Damage By a lot and Increase its melee damage (To a Shit ton like maybe 80ish) I just honestly feel like Ninja is in a good spot if it could actually lay a finger on warriors without getting its ass handed to it and then Crucified.

That'll just make Ninja a faceroll class, that only relies on left click. Of course it would make it better against warriors but it would also be much better against squishy classes. Do you see the problem? A simple buff like this is going to really help Ninja as a class

 

[Ahrall]

Quick thought: if the proposed change to fade gives you slowness for it's duration you will never be able to use it for combat. If someone sees the ninja disappear all they have to do is walk away, ninja won't be able to catch up to them to get any backstabs off.
Now if its sole purpose is for initiation this is fine, but if is intended to be used as in-combat repositioning/juking then the slowness will render it useless

 

[malikdanab]

Quick thought: if the proposed change to fade gives you slowness for it's duration you will never be able to use it for combat. If someone sees the ninja disappear all they have to do is walk away, ninja won't be able to catch up to them to get any backstabs off.
Now if its sole purpose is for initiation this is fine, but if is intended to be used as in-combat repositioning/juking then the slowness will render it useless

Stealth rarely works in 1v1s. It will be hard to keep track of a ninja in a group fight.

 

[JupiterRome]

Stealth rarely works in 1v1s. It will be hard to keep track of a ninja in a group fight.

AOES Will take you out of fade JSING

I honestly Like the Idea but kinda am hesitant because Manasong and accelerando will make fade amazing..... also Aoes will take you out of this right? So will have to be used carefully in team fights

 

[Egorh]

Quick thought: if the proposed change to fade gives you slowness for it's duration you will never be able to use it for combat. If someone sees the ninja disappear all they have to do is walk away, ninja won't be able to catch up to them to get any backstabs off.
Now if its sole purpose is for initiation this is fine, but if is intended to be used as in-combat repositioning/juking then the slowness will render it useless

I see your point and it is not exactly mean't for 1v1's mid combat. My thought process behind this skill is the power to disappear for a chunk of time and then reappear unexpectedly. Since it can have a long duration you should be able to the skill even before your enemy is in your render distance; making that 1v1 an unfair 2v1 out of no where

As for the group fights it is going to have the power to be a strong mechanic. Right now you do not really have an effective way to reach the squishy people in a teamfight. Sure you can run right at them but most of the time it will not work out too well. Smoke does not have a long enough duration to go around the fight, avoiding AOEs. This version of fade would allow you to circle around the whole fight, enabling you to target the person you want.

AOES Will take you out of fade JSING

I honestly Like the Idea but kinda am hesitant because Manasong and accelerando will make fade amazing..... also Aoes will take you out of this right? So will have to be used carefully in team fights

Ye AOEs will take you out of invisible but that makes it so the Ninja needs to be aware of what is happening in the teamfight. I also never thought of that manasong/accelerando combo. It would make the skill very strong, but I don't see a problem with having good synergy between two classes.


EDIT: A combo that would work for using fade/invis mid fight would be to go invisible and then throw out Kasarigama from a random direction. They get rooted out of nowhere and gives you an opportunity to have your way with your opponent

 

[Xhazed]

Can you make it so that the more armor your enemy has the more damage your sword does??????????
Dumb idea

 

[Egorh]

Can you make it so that the more armor your enemy has the more damage your sword does??????????
Dumb idea

I suppose it would be a solution to the Ninja vs Warrior problem but it does not really address any of the other issues with Ninja

 

[JupiterRome]

I feel No Matter what Ninja needs some left click damage in crease because frankly, it shouldn't Have the same base as dragoon because goon is tankier

 

[malikdanab]

The only way I can see ninja being viable against warriors without making it OP against mages is to give it more piercing/ability damage.

 

[Egorh]

I feel No Matter what Ninja needs some left click damage in crease because frankly, it shouldn't Have the same base as dragoon because goon is tankier

Base weapon damage (lvl 65, diamond tool)

• Dragoon: 54
• Ninja: 58
• Runeblade: 60

Those are pretty reasonable numbers, although I could see the melee damage of Runeblade and Ninja switching. Dragoon may be tanky but Ninja gets damage in other ways (backstab, eviscerate, envenom, etc).

 

[JupiterRome]

Base weapon damage (lvl 65, diamond tool)

• Dragoon: 54
• Ninja: 58
• Runeblade: 60

Those are pretty reasonable numbers, although I could see the melee damage of Runeblade and Ninja switching. Dragoon may be tanky but Ninja gets damage in other ways (backstab, eviscerate, envenom, etc).

WIki

 

[Egorh]

The only way I can see ninja being viable against warriors without making it OP against mages is to give it more piercing/ability damage.

Piercing damage works but it still adds to the strength against less armoured targets. A simple example would be eviscerate: The piercing damage really helps against Warriors but it is still very effective against squishes.

I feel as though having a skill that scales off the enemy's armor or HP is going to work better than flat piercing damage.

 

[malikdanab]

Piercing damage works but it still adds to the strength against less armoured targets. A simple example would be eviscerate: The piercing damage really helps against Warriors but it is still very effective against squishes.

I feel as though having a skill that scales off the enemy's armor or HP is going to work better than flat piercing damage.

I'd say % of max hp. IDK if its even possible to base skills off armor.

 

[Xhazed]

Just make it to how it was back in bastion

 

[Ahrall]

As the rogue patch draw closer I will again push this forward:
I like these changes but let's do what we can to keep the present smoke skill. The instant on-demand stealth is a unique mechanic that provides a lot of thoughtful gameplay.

Itf we are to (potentially) loose the bow let us at least keep the smoke. Adding the new fade is good, but removing the current smoke will kill a lot of the interesting gameplay of the class

 

[Egorh]

As the rogue patch draw closer I will again push this forward:
I like these changes but let's do what we can to keep the present smoke skill. The instant on-demand stealth is a unique mechanic that provides a lot of thoughtful gameplay.

Itf we are to (potentially) loose the bow let us at least keep the smoke. Adding the new fade is good, but removing the current smoke will kill a lot of the interesting gameplay of the class

Keep the invisible portion of smoke, but also have the blind/nausea

 

[Ahrall]

To add a "no new code required" change, what if we just flat out decreased the cooldown of smoke to something close to 15 seconds. This would allow the ninja to reliably dip in and out of stealth for re-positioning/juking/etc without turning the class into a WoW rogue.

More "no new code required" ideas: buff the damage on envenom to increase combat effectiveness against warriors. Could create a cool thematically accurate playstyle of only being able to engage warriors while your blade is envenomed while not really effecting casters at all because, as True stated earlier, you only really get 1-2 autos off on them before they are out of range again.

 

[Egorh]

To add a "no new code required" change, what if we just flat out decreased the cooldown of smoke to something close to 15 seconds. This would allow the ninja to reliably dip in and out of stealth for re-positioning/juking/etc without turning the class into a WoW rogue.

More "no new code required" ideas: buff the damage on envenom to increase combat effectiveness against warriors. Could create a cool thematically accurate playstyle of only being able to engage warriors while your blade is envenomed while not really effecting casters at all because, as True stated earlier, you only really get 1-2 autos off on them before they are out of range again.

I would still rather see a long duration invisible than a short duration-partially spammy invisible. We both want to see Ninja in a better state but our approaches to the invisibility problem are very different