[Kingdom] Order of the Sun [OS] [Neutral/Good]

[MultiHeartGold]

Oh i'm sorry. I'll leave it up to you guys, especially Xexorian. I'm sure his long walls of text, constant admin tags, drama, tantrums and complaining will do the kingdom a lot of good!

They will do more good than your general assholeness.

 

[MajorasMask]

They will do more good than your general assholeness.

Assholeness? I've been trying to help you lot. I've been saying all this time to just build more pylons. Leftover has said the exact same thing, along with Alator. While Xexorian has been here ranting away about how he shouldn't have to move/remake pylons, you could have actually made some new ones which fit the rules listed on the wiki. If you are unsure as to how you should ''interpret'' the rules, then just build the pylons much closer, just to be safe.

 

[Fjordsen]

From my viewpoint, Majoras has only been trying to help. No need to call him an asshole. You should know better Multi

 

[Jmandudeguy]

Jesus man. Majoras helps like every town and this is what he gets? Come on.

 

[Dielan9999]

I'm rather dissapointed in the response to my ruling. I understand being upset, but the way things have been worded in both this post and in pms is unfortunate. Anyway I did not check all of the the pylons, for once I found several that I could not see the next one, I stopped. I am away this weekend t my fiance's parents house, and even so, demanding that we bend to your beck and call at whatever time you wish is completely unreasonable.

I will compile a list of the pylons that have no visible neighbors when I get home and have a chance, but don't throw your angst at us because your measurements on paper didn't pan out in game.

What it really is, is all of our efforts for the entire map have led up to this and all we got in response was:

Of course some of us are going to be upset!




All things aside, thank you Alator! I look forward to your list!

 

[Jmandudeguy]

It's called learn from your mistakes and go fix it. Don't act like you didn't have the ability to ask LO or ask admins about what to do if you were unsure. You had the opportunity and you didn't use it, but that is in the past. Move on to get the job done and become the 2nd kingdom on Bastion.

 

[Dielan9999]

It's called learn from your mistakes and go fix it. Don't act like you didn't have the ability to ask LO or ask admins about what to do if you were unsure. You had the opportunity and you didn't use it, but that is in the past. Move on to get the job done and become the 2nd kingdom on Bastion.

Have you been reading the thread? We asked the admins every step of the way. Leftovers dropped some advice as well. Yet we still got turned down. That's the only reason people are getting upset.

 

[gabizou]

Don't insult towns/applications unecessarily on the application. People not part of the application making insulting posts will be punished appropriately.

 

[gabizou]

Now, all the bickering aside, let Alator or Danda come by and give their honest opinion on how to allow you to become kingdom WITHOUT anyone else giving their 2c.

There's no need to bicker

 

[Danda]

Have you been reading the thread? We asked the admins every step of the way. Leftovers dropped some advice as well. Yet we still got turned down. That's the only reason people are getting upset.

1. Xexo was trying to cut corners my entire convo with him
2. A drawn map isn't exactly a great way to tell how far something is or how it would look in-game.

On another note I'll be talking to other staff members to determine exact distances between pylons since this is something the needs to be specified apparently.

Also I apologise for my overly abusive post I wasn't in the best of moods, had just woken up at 7am with a really bad hangover. But that doesn't excuse what I said.

 

[Bedwyr2112]

1. Xexo was trying to cut corners my entire convo with him
2. A drawn map isn't exactly a great way to tell how far something is or how it would look in-game.

On another note I'll be talking to other staff members to determine exact distances between pylons since this is something the needs to be specified apparently.

Also I apologise for my overly abusive post I wasn't in the best of moods, had just woken up at 7am with a really bad hangover. But that doesn't excuse what I said.

Thanks Danda,

In the end we just want to be able to move forward. If the details can be appropriately clarified that would be greatly appreciated. I'm willing to do whatever work is necessary for us to reach kingdom status. If that ultimately means tearing them down and rebuilding them, I'll do it, but it would be an unfortunate waste of time if there isn't another way to work it out.

 

[northeaster345]

Also, they never gave us any sort of distance measurement so we went with what we felt was the maximum which appeared to be about 7 chunks

As I was actually the one who built the LO pylons, I could've told you that we had to be very careful to make the pylons close together. Since you can use optifine and keep the chunks loaded for a long time, you could theoretically just walk about 200 blocks and all those chunks would still be loaded, and you'd still be in vision range. Thus the rule that they have to be close enough that you can always see them from one pylon to the other only makes sense if it's based on the server view limit.

Sounds like you have a lot of leftover pylons. The rules were being created while we were building, where at first we were told we could only have 20 pylons, then it was expanded to 40 (we built 39), and now apparently 50. You guys could practically double the number of pylons you have currently and solve any possible problem. Is it really that much trouble to make a handful more pylons? While danda shouldn't have yelled at you, he has a reason to be frustrated that you seem to be trying to cut some corners.

 

[xexorian]

As I was actually the one who built the LO pylons, I could've told you that we had to be very careful to make the pylons close together. Since you can use optifine and keep the chunks loaded for a long time, you could theoretically just walk about 200 blocks and all those chunks would still be loaded, and you'd still be in vision range. Thus the rule that they have to be close enough that you can always see them from one pylon to the other only makes sense if it's based on the server view limit.

Sounds like you have a lot of leftover pylons. The rules were being created while we were building, where at first we were told we could only have 20 pylons, then it was expanded to 40 (we built 39), and now apparently 50. You guys could practically double the number of pylons you have currently and solve any possible problem. Is it really that much trouble to make a handful more pylons? While danda shouldn't have yelled at you, he has a reason to be frustrated that you seem to be trying to cut some corners.

I understand, and thank you for the comment. But we should have had better management of the kingdom rules to begin with and I am glad to elaborate why we're frustrated in the post below. Check this map out, it explains why.



Here is the image.

LEGEND:
LIGHT GREEN CHUNK - too far, marks 7th chunk spacing.
LIGHT BLUE CHUNK - too far, marks the 6 chunk spacing me and sidesummy went on. We knew default was 10 so we went with a reasonably small estimate based on what we knew since admins neglected to answer our questions.
PURPLE CHUNK - within range, based on server.ini settings for rendered chunk distances.
YELLOW CHUNKS - mark the actual spacing of view distance in game, standing on any given chunk, since the game does not render PARTS of chunks it only renders based on from the chunk you're standing on. This is why you do not want to use BLOCK COUNTS to space visible structures.
The numbers in the key (the large drawing at the at the top right) show the following mechanics:

0 - the chunk you're on (the game does not render block distance.)
1 through 6 - are the chunks viewable based on server settings.
7 - chunks beyond this border are not visible and do not render, hence why almost EVERY pylon we've built except 2 will need to be redone. (all the black dots are 1 too far from each other.)


Unfortunately we didn't notice this before I set citizens tasked to build pylons.

I do like you're idea that we can double them up and not waste time destroying them, the problem in that is that a lot of the pylons had to be moved already to fit around pre-existing structures, and we can't grief those "legally" until we own the territory officially and can remodel. It will take us some more time planning these out accordingly.

 

[xexorian]

I'd also like to comment that our pylons are "Reasonably large" so that the edge of them are only a few blocks from the chunk borders, since they're centered, so we didn't notice they were out of view distance until after the fact that we were denied.

edit:

I just read through my own post, and I'd like to say that I don't have another word for the situation than "admin neglect" by definition, do not take this as hostile actions I love you guys danda and alator, and I can't describe the situation in a more appropiate tone than that, so let's move on and get a decision made here as to what we should do, I feel as if it's innappropiate for us to make another 20+ pylons because they're 3 or 4 blocks away from the chunk edge (based on standing beside each tower) all the way around from being "from view distance" since we didn't know that it was limited to 6 chunk radius render. But, that being said, we're not opposed to doing it, we just need to know if we can get this leeway made so we can get it done sooner rather than later.

This is why we're frustrated, because we know they're spaced on the 7th chunk from each other, we just didn't know that our entire effort except 2 towers (the first two I built personally) were going to be fucked up.

 

[xexorian]

So, if you can, give us a reply again and let us know how to proceed from here on:

1) do we need to build pylons in between all the blue lines I marked?
2) can we build 4 pylons in between the sides of the chunks with a light green marker, since those are what I would consider unacceptable. then get the region done? (the'yre 7 apart instead of 6)
3) should we take down all the pylons and start over? from what chunk distance do you want the spacing? how many points do you want in our polygonal region? upto 50ish?

Let me know, thank you!

 

[xexorian]

1. Xexo was trying to cut corners my entire convo with him
2. A drawn map isn't exactly a great way to tell how far something is or how it would look in-game.

On another note I'll be talking to other staff members to determine exact distances between pylons since this is something the needs to be specified apparently.

Also I apologise for my overly abusive post I wasn't in the best of moods, had just woken up at 7am with a really bad hangover. But that doesn't excuse what I said.

Thank you danda, I updated this post to reflect why your 2nd reasoning is not accurate. The chunk maps are EXACTLY what we need to use to determine pylon spacing if it's based on view distance, they can draw a square with 5 radius and determine each point in sequential order, this is the simplest and by far easiest method to make sure they will be viewable before placing a single block in game. We went by this method to make the map but we messed up 2 pylons, which means we need 4 more (based on our assumption of 10 chunk render radius) obviously we were confused here as I said, and spaced them all at exactly 7 chunks apart which was just one too far in all cases except the first two.

It's so simple it hurts now that I think about it, we just have and had not established methods of doing this before now. Now we have the tools to do it, I will provide a second sample map to illustrate this better:

 

[xexorian]

Ofcourse I should note here there is a yellow diagonal, this would be to connect pylons directly, and would still violate the 50 radius of townships, this is kind of restricted by the HTTP system.

Though you can get them closer to being reasonable by using the alternate method (the right bottom side there.)

Also, this is assuming each township was capital, I'll need to redraw it to show city/town/hamlet examples for each, but each kingdom beyond this map will probably be setup differently.

If we decide to go with an architectured map for kingdoms and townships they should be setup in such a method to allow the simplicity of these maps.

I'll add some more when I get free time to render one with town/city ranks and a capital (showing the difference in pylon count and sizes)

I'd also like to say this is the kingdom information we needed to know when this map came out, but we had no way of knowing all of this because it was only recently feasible to work on this stuff. We could've planned better and had a more beautiful area for our kingdom. :/

 

[xexorian]

Ofcourse I'll need to create kingdom maps showing the other variations for simplicity:

Variation 1:
1 town at top, 2 cities at sides, 1 capital bottom
1 town at bottom, 2 cities at sides, 1 capital top
Variation 2:
1 town at left, 2 cities at top and right, 1 capital bottom
1 town at right, 2 cities at top and left, 1 capital bottom
1 town at left, 2 cities at bottom and right, 1 capital top
1 town at right, 2 cities at bottom and left, 1 capital top

Variation 3:
1 city at top, 2 towns at sides, 1 capital bottom.
1 city at bottom, 2 towns at sides, 1 capital top.

Variation 3:
2 towns at top and left, 1 city at right, 1 capital bottom
2 towns at top and right, 1 city at left, 1 capital bottom
2 towns at bottom and left, 1 city at right, 1 capital at top
2 towns at bottom and right, 1 city at left, 1 capital at top

Variation 4:
3 towns, 1 capital bottom
3 towns, 1 capital left
3 towns, 1 capital right
3 towns, 1 capital top

Variation 5:
3 cities, 1 capital bottom
3 cities, 1 capital left
3 cities, 1 capital right
3 cities, 1 capital top.

and we can add more variations if hamlets are taken into account, so this would obviously take me a few hours to map and render each one and get uploaded, but I'm willing if Danda or Alator want reference maps for community usage.

 

[xexorian]

Ofcourse, if we could use "Variation 5" in my post, we could simplify the whole method and go on maximum kingdom sizes, and build it accordingly, but we'd have to wipe out the whole "Must be within 50 block radius of a township" rule and go with chunk spacing rules that clearly define how to setup kingdoms in the future. As well as allowing for the growth of townships.

Besides, why base the radius on 50 blocks when it should be chunk based anyway for viewable distances? These and other things matter in my opinion, with the consistency of kingdom rules.

All of this needs to be considered if staff are going to discuss this stuff.

 

[Danda]

Thank you danda, I updated this post to reflect why your 2nd reasoning is not accurate. The chunk maps are EXACTLY what we need to use to determine pylon spacing if it's based on view distance

While yes something may look good drawn on paper but you don't generally get a good feel for something until you can see it actually fleshed out.