Impenetrable Towns?

[Goonswarm]

How about you guys stop whining, towns are easily raidable. You can't just raid by yourself. You need a team! Dragoons and wizards can get into bases with no problem.

I am not sure where you were educated, but this is a discussion, and a good one at that. Why don't you go look up the definition for whining and come back to the thread with something remotely constructive to add. Or maybe try reading some of the thread.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

Even if you have a very powerful, rapid firing cannon, you can construct a wall that counters this. TNT cannons are limited to ballistic trajectory, and the only starting point of the trajectory is outside of a regioned area.

Majorasmask was quoted earlier saying that people will complain about water-walls [and I would add obsidian walls]. I agree. Not much is going to change if you can't place TNT in a regioned are that you don't have permissions for. If you were able to place TNT, you could actually gain entry. My entire theory is founded on the observation that people won't construct their "doors" out of obsidian or any other impenetrable block, due to the inconvenience of removing these blocks to "open" the doors.

http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Obsidian
http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Explosion#Blast_Resistance

 

[Hanpeter77]

Towns for the most part have always been impenetrable and I think the only way your ever going to change that is with the TNT skill.

Even lets if you did get in the town its not like you would even be able to get any items and for the most part when people die once they just sit in one room that you can't get to anyways.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

As a new player, I joined a town to have a "safe" location to store my stuff, even though placing blocks over the top of chests looks awful in terms of aesthetics. If we're now going to have people running around TNTing everything, what's the point?

Making LWC'd chests explosion-proof would fix this. This would remove the unlimited free LWCs that towns essentially have right now.

 

[MajorasMask]

Towns for the most part have always been impenetrable and I think the only way your ever going to change that is with the TNT skill.

Even lets if you did get in the town its not like you would even be able to get any items and for the most part when people die once they just sit in one room that you can't get to anyways.

Agreed. People who think that ''TNT will save raiding'' don't understand that people will just hide in their homes, or just move their items into LWCs, or further down.

 

[MajorasMask]

Making LWC'd chests explosion-proof would fix this. This would remove the unlimited free LWCs that towns essentially have right now.

Towns don't get unlimited free LWCs... O_O

And LWC'd objects were always planned to be resistant to TNT, right...?

 

[Jack_Reacher]

I said "essentially". Putting a dirt block on top of a chest makes it so that anyone who doesn't have permissions to the town can't open it. This is essentially an LWC.

 

[Goonswarm]

Towns for the most part have always been impenetrable and I think the only way your ever going to change that is with the TNT skill.

Even lets if you did get in the town its not like you would even be able to get any items and for the most part when people die once they just sit in one room that you can't get to anyways.

I see players being able to break blocks over chests with tnt (difficult to aim and set up) or break in and set a mark, allowing for recall ganks.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

I said "essentially". Putting a dirt block on top of a chest makes it so that anyone who doesn't have permissions to the town can't open it. This is essentially an LWC.

So thats 250c for unlimited LWCs in the form of a spawn plot too. Also, a Hamlet costs the same as 20 LWCs when you dont count the item part.

 

[northeaster345]

TNT placement cooldown = TNT duration - 1 second
So the argument is you don't want extra development? Isn't extra development already necessary to get TNT to work?

Residences is a separate plugin, that manages personal regions, not developed by herocraft. I think what you want is not TNT placement, but something that summons an active TNT entity, that way we don't have to deal with the issues of breaking or placing blocks in regioned areas. Simply saying "you don't want extra development" is a silly argument, since it would break current plugins and region protection for the sake of one skill. More than just developing TNT, you'd have to rewrite multiple other plugins extensively.

My argument against that is that it doesn't require the investment nor ingenuity of a TNT cannon, basically gives an instakill aoe to miner, with no way to stop it.

 

[Fjordsen]

Agreed. People who think that ''TNT will save raiding'' don't understand that people will just hide in their homes, or just move their items into LWCs, or further down.

Bed spawning will save it. Imagine dying during defending your town, spawn right back, gear up and fight again! Or how it is right now: Respawn at GY, rage, buy overpriced Redstone, recall, gear up, die again, Recall on CD, fml. Beds can be used tactically during raids aswell, it adds a lot of strategy into PvP.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

it would break current plugins and region protection for the sake of one skill.

Please elaborate. If this is truly not possible through development (or if it's too much of a pain), then I'll stop beating a dead horse. Your comment about a skill to summon a "TNT entity" could fix this.

My argument against that is that it doesn't require the investment nor ingenuity of a TNT cannon

I don't think the point is to require ingenuity. I think the point is to improve raiding.

basically gives an instakill aoe to miner, with no way to stop it.

If you see TNT placed ... run away.

 

[MajorasMask]

Bed spawning will save it. Imagine dying during defending your town, spawn right back, gear up and fight again! Or how it is right now: Respawn at GY, rage, buy overpriced Redstone, recall, gear up, die again, Recall on CD, fml. Beds can be used tactically during raids aswell, it adds a lot of strategy into PvP.

Exactly! Bed spawning is a much greater thing to reintroduce. It would seem logical to discuss it here, (we're on the topic of making raiding/pvp better) but we all know Kainzo doesn't like that.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

we all know Kainzo doesn't like that.

Sorry for being out of the loop here - but what is the argument against bed spawning? I could see "/kill" being used as a free teleport... Maybe this should be discussed in a different thread.

 

[northeaster345]

Please elaborate. If this is truly not possible through development (or if it's too much of a pain), then I'll stop beating a dead horse. Your comment about a skill to summon a "TNT entity" could fix this.

I believe currently, that region protections works by asking whether the block you're trying to break or place is protected, and if you're on the list of people who can break it. By allowing people to place TNT, you'd have to change things to put in a check to see what kind of block it is that you're trying to place for every time you try to affect a regioned block (adding more lag), and if there's a flag against this (I'm assuming they don't want people griefing spawn). This isn't supported by residences, which is a separate plugin used to manage personal regions and spawn plots, so we'd have to scrap it, or have it rewritten in house for the sake of one skill.

How do you place a block and then ignite it? Do you have to light it on fire with a flint and steel since you can't place redstone torches? If you have to ignite it, how long does it last? If it lasts long enough to light, why can't you pillar off of it? What happens if you place your block of TNT in the place of water? You can't replace the water, since you
don't have regions, so you just griefed someone's regions, and that means you can get rid of people's water walls, removing any possibility of protection besides obsidian.

It would also add the possibilities of bugs to regions, that we wouldn't find out until it was implemented, for the sake of one skill.

I think another problem is if miners can summon a lit TNT, then that's basically plaguebomb x 5. My opinion is that it would make TNT less interesting, less hardcore, and unbalanced.

I would like to add that I'm a miner, and this suggestion would benefit me, but I think it would make miner one of the best pvp classes.


EDIT: I misread your comment about cd. I don't know if it's possible to limit the speed at which you can place blocks with skills. But even if it were, there's no reason you'd have to ignite the TNT, it would be slower pillaring, but still pillaring, and griefing

 

[MajorasMask]

Sorry for being out of the loop here - but what is the argument against bed spawning? I could see "/kill" being used as a free teleport... Maybe this should be discussed in a different thread.

If you'd like to discuss it, ask me in a forum conversation, or post something on my profile. (It's better not to keep it here ).

 

[Multis_Revenge12]

I hope not to see mindless water/tnt cannons!

 

[MajorasMask]

MajorasMask Have fun with my sentance -
Snakker du engelsk? Jeg har smakt som vafler i går, unnskyldning mig jeg trenger å gå min pet EtKEnn.

Do you speak English? I have tasted like waffles yesterday, excuse me, I need to walk my pet.

Erm, please take mindless spam out of forum conversations such as this, please!

 

[Jack_Reacher]

EDIT: I misread your comment about cd. I don't know if it's possible to limit the speed at which you can place blocks with skills. But even if it were, there's no reason you'd have to ignite the TNT, it would be slower pillaring, but still pillaring, and griefing

If there were a way to make the TNT block disappear after 10 seconds (if not detonated, and if in a region you don't have permissions for), and the placement cooldown was 20 seconds, you wouldn't be able to place more than one at a time.

How do you place a block and then ignite it?

Perhaps make it active when placed - if you are placing it in a region you don't have permissions for. You should have enough time to run away if you start by placing it far enough away from yourself. Actually - this would solve the pillaring issue too. Because you'd want to get the F away from your TNT after placing it.

I think another problem is if miners can summon a lit TNT, then that's basically plaguebomb x 5. My opinion is that it would make TNT less interesting, less hardcore, and unbalanced.

Yea - this could be an issue, but the miners would have to light the TNT somehow. Perhaps make a miner skill called "Fuse" that triggers a long fuse on the TNT. This would give players enough time to run away. This also be mutually exclusive with the "make active when placed" method. So long as TNT_PLACEMENT_COOLDOWN>REMOVE_TNT_TIME>TNT_FUSE_TIME, this method could work and be the best.

 

[leftovers5]

This may be my nobish, anti-pvp opinion, but allowing people to blow holes in a town's walls doesn't seem very "fun" to me xD
If I want to pvp, then I go out and pvp. This effectively forces people to pvp. And how would this affect chests? Just curious, but would they blow up? Spew their contents everywhere? If anything, the idea makes me feel like towns would be LESS safe than a random hiding spot in the wilderness lol. At least there, people aren't looking for you or even know you exist, whereas obviously town locations are no secret. As a new player, I joined a town to have a "safe" location to store my stuff, even though placing blocks over the top of chests looks awful in terms of aesthetics. If we're now going to have people running around TNTing everything, what's the point? Surface plots will be pointless except for looks then, since they can be easily breached. Towns will exist even moreso underground than they already are.

Not to mention how this will affect class ratios... As soon as this goes live, guess who will be a miner? Everyone xD
I'm sure many have already started leveling miner just because this is in the future.

For a new member, you are very wise.